The needle shots at school

[ResidentWeevil2077]

I realize how much doctors need to know before they are even allowed to practice medicine as an undergraduate. In my defence, I just simply won't trust anyone with my body - simply put, I am a religious person. I know this isn't a viable reason to anyone, and I sure as hell do not want to turn this into a religious debate, so please, DO NOT RESPOND TO MY POST. I WILL report you if you do, so please do all of us a favour, and DO NOT RESPOND TO MY POST. Thank you.

[Lord Slyther]

An argument already? Well, I guess this thread might get locked down soon. :blink:

 

But I have my answer.

[Vagrant0]

First thing I thought of when I saw this thread was wondering what country you were living in. Vaccine shots have been around awhile, and most of those people who speak against them are just holistic nutjobs (technical term). Seriously, I've had all my shots, since an early age, and again starting junior high. All this paranoia is baseless. And yes, I have even done tests on my own blood to make sure that there aren't any of the government's nano-probes swimming around (yeah, some actually believe that). In most cases these are done to prevent outbreaks of sickness in the population. The only shots which you should be wary of are flu shots... Never had one before, don't care to. That's how they get control of your mind and make you buy stuff (proven fact, people who get flu shots also buy stuff).

[freddycashmercury]

The only shots which you should be wary of are flu shots... Never had one before, don't care to. That's how they get control of your mind and make you buy stuff (proven fact, people who get flu shots also buy stuff).

 

So THAT"S why I've been buying random CD's by people I've never heard of! Thanks, Vagrant! :P

 

 

No, seriously, I don't think there's anything wrong with vaccines or doctors, for that matter.

[ninja_lord666]

I would take the advice of a doctor far sooner than I'm going to take the advice of a non-medically trained person. By the time my baby's born, everyone in this house is going to be vaccinated against the flu. I'm not going to have a bunch of non-vaccinated people around my newborn. Even if a vaccination isn't 100% perfect for whatever reason, it is 200% better than no vaccination at all. Without our vaccines and medical advancement, we'd be like the dark ages in which every other person died of disease. I don't know the exact statistic but a mom had a 10% chance of dying during child birth in the old times. That means every 1 in 10 moms were going to die!

 

So, advice to people who "don't trust doctors". Are you going to believe the word of local folklore about this and that medical practice, or are you going to take the advice of a doctor? Do you realize that the average doctor (depending on the exact practice) takes about 2 years of undergrad, then 4 years of medical school, then 3-4 years of residency, plus fellowships and whatnot? When I said I had a doctor in the family, I have some idea of what goes on in behind the life of these doctors. It tears families apart and its hard work worth suicide, so you can't say that a doctor doesn't know what he/she's talking about when they tell you something. Why do we have doctors then?

I admire your want to protect your child, but I have two things to say:

1. The flu virus evolves so quickly that the vaccine you get will only last about a year before you'll need a new one.

2. Protecting a baby too much from disease is not good. The immune system grows from experience, so the only way a child can be healthy is by getting things like the flu or the cold as a baby. Just a heads up. ;)

[kungfubellydancer]

You're right in a way. According to numerous articles, it is said that doctors believe that one major cause for food allergies is because, since we are so clean and free of diseases (compared to other countries/past years) the immune system overreacts to proteins in allergy foods. I can say that this may be true, because I've been to some countries in which knowledge of disease and bacteria/viruses are limited (and are therefore have quite a germy life), and yet I don't know anyone or seen anyone with food allergies. Only in the US where we have disease-free drinking water, anti-bacterial handsoap, and people disinfecting their homes every week, is where the allergy population is greatest. In this case I fear for my baby.

 

However, one method (assuming this theory is true) of ridding ourselves of allergies is re-introducing deadly diseases into the country, to give our immune systems something real to fight. However, anyone can agree that giving a child malaria is far worse a thing to do than have him suffer from allergies, in which the symptoms can be avoided. So for now I'm going to be on the safer side of having my child flu-free (flu can kill a newborn, you realize) and vaccinate everyone here.

[Eiden]

It's not just that. Everybody has to take it for an unknown reason. It applies within law. I don't want to take it, but I have to anyway.

 

 

It's not for an 'unknown' reason. The reason is to protect the safety and wellbeing of children. The illnesses that vaccinations protect you against are highly virulant and highly contagious. These diseases have not been eradicated but merely controlled for the time being. By refusing to be vaccinated you become: a. a potential victim of these diseases(more so, than you can realize due to the massive influx of immigrants to all first world countries), b. a host carrier to infect other people, and c. a walking petri dish for the virus to mutate and potentially cause another incurable epidemic.

 

The flu shot, on the other hand, is not mandated by the health department(with the exception of state health care workers), and so, if you do not wish to get it, don't. That's one shot, I myself, wouldn't even bother with simply because there are literally thousands of strains of flu, and, your being innoculated against ONE, does not preclude your contracting another form. Each year the flu virus produces hundreds of variants and therefore, we are not able to efficiently combat it.

 

 

@kungfu.....Yes, in Sweeden they have proven that illnesses such as asthma and other allergies can be directly attributed to an over sterile environment. However, introducing lethal virii back into the public is a bit ridiculous, that is the reason for vaccinations in the first place, to shoot a batch of the dead virii into the system so that we develop an immunity to certain diseases. The severity of the reaction to things like the flu, and the common cold, however, can be directly attributed to over zealous parenting, and the media which floods the airwaves with proclamations of healthy = sterile, and the addlepated populace that gobbles it up.

[ninja_lord666]

So for now I'm going to be on the safer side of having my child flu-free (flu can kill a newborn, you realize) and vaccinate everyone here.

I knew there was one common disease like that. I didn't know if it was the flu or something else. I do know the cold is harmless, though.

[ResidentWeevil2077]

@KungFu:

:sick: ...Ugh... This thread is sickening, I cannot believe what I am reading. All you seem to know is that the doctor knows best. Well, here's a shocker - HE DOESN'T! Simple as that, alright? Let me put it to you this way - are you gonna blindly download EVERY SINGLE Windows update from Microsoft? NO, you won't, especially if the update crashes your computer. The same can be said of humans (not exactly in the same sense, but you know what I mean). I fully support the use of vaccinations against certain (and I am placing EXTRA emphasis on "CERTAIN") diseases, because not all vaccinations are exactly good for you, especially for little children.

 

The flu shot is perhaps the most controversial, as not everyone will need it during their lifetime. As I had pointed out before (and as Eiden clarified it for me - thank you btw ;) ), an over-sterile environment is the cause of why so many kids and adults today are allergic to any number of things (always due to being over zealous and over protective). I am glad that I have NO allergies (except to codeine *shudders*), and I pity the one who is allergic, because their parents were too damn clean (not that I have a thing against cleanliness lol - if I did, I'd be stinking to high hell by now o_O ). I know you only want to look out for your children KungFu, but I am trying to make you understand that not everything the doctor tells you is necessarily right for you or your family. I don't want to upset you, but I am telling you this as your (internet) friend, not because I want to, but because you have to hear another side of the story.

 

I haven't had one flu shot yet, and I never intend to at all for as long I live. As Eiden pointed out, the flu is mutating all the time, and there are numerous strains that would take years to create all the vaccines against them. And even then, the virus will still mutate again and again, and in the meantime, all the time that was used to create all these vaccines will have been wasted. Do you see what I mean? I hope you understand what it is I have been saying. The flu virus wouldn't be nearly as bad for a newborn as it would be for the elderly. The reason is because while a newborn does have a weak immune system, it isn't being weakened, it is being strengthened - why do you always hear of elderly persons going for their flu shots come winter, and yet you never hear of parents with newborns doing likewise? So, the best advice for you KungFu is to get all the vaccinations that you have to get for your baby, but hold off on the flu shot, as it would only do more harm than good for your baby later on in life.

 

 

I also want to expound on what Eiden mentioned about the reintroduction of deadly diseases/virulent agents. That would serve no purpose other than for biological warfare. Many people would get very sick, and for those with already-weakened immune systems, they would simply die. Why do you suppose the only places that still have Bubonic Plague are in sterile laboratories? Another outbreak of that would surely wipe out most of the population :ohmy:

[Xeniorn]

@kungfubellydancer: I don't know if it was accidental but you've put something in the wrong way. Allergies have nothing to do with deadly diseases, nor with vaccines for that matter. As it has been stated, allergies are a product of over-sterile environment, vacuuming the house with super-powered vacuum cleaners every few days renders the house dust-free, and combined with the fact children today spend most of the day in the house it sums up to children living in a dust-free environment, so their respiratory system isn't so resistant to the small particles in the air. So when they come out to the world and the great outdoors, their system is shocked by the sheer amount of pollen, dust, smoke, microorganisms and such, and cannot put up with it. The same goes for fanatically disinfecting your hands before meals, eating only very clean food, etc. You are supposed to be exposed to your environment, so your body gets used to it. Too much hygiene is as bad as too little, one has to know the golden middle.

 

I don't want to depict myself as superior, but if you want the best for your children, let them be exposed to the world. They *won't* get hurt if they eat a sandwich without washing their hands once in a while, it'll build up their immune system and help them a lot. Of course one must know the limit. I know this both out of experience, observation of people that surround me and because I've talked to several experts on the matter from different areas of expertise (physicians, biologist, chemist, parents with 5 children that had much practice on the matter :D)

 

@rob_b: I agree with you on not trusting doctors blindly. But I do generally trust them on most things, because it is confirmed by my own conclusions, observation and tradition. But doctors sometimes tend to... Make things in an OK way rather than the right way just because it's easier. And IMO they prescribe pills, antibiotics and other medicaments a little too often, thus hindering the people's natural ability to take care of problems on their own. The weakening-of-body's-natural-resistance-effect of many unnecessary medicaments should be more stressed. Mind that I'm talking about the unnecessary ones, I'll take antibiotics if I have influenza or if I'm more seriously ill but I'll fight cough, headache, and all minor and mediocre problems on my own. And it tends to work, as I am almost never sick and even when I am it's just common cold or something like that. I believe it's so because of my attitude with hygiene, medicaments, food, self-healing and such stuff.