The needle shots at school

[ninja_lord666]

They *won't* get hurt if they eat a sandwich without washing their hands once in a while...

I totally agree. My mom ate dirt when she was younger; I think a sandwich is just fine.

[kungfubellydancer]

I think when I mentioned the deadly diseases in my post, I thought I made it clear that the idea was BAD, and that I WASN'T about to introduce anyone to deadly diseases. Besides, this statement is what I'm getting from the articles, not necessarily what I believe or don't believe. And if anyone wants to know where these articles are from, I'll tell you, because I have 2 of the 3 magazines (parenting mags) in the house. The other one was from an issue of TIME magazine from fall or summer of 2007, I believe. But if you are curious I will tell you the exact title and issue of each mag.

 

Remember, this is what I understood from these articles, and not necessarily what I can say is true or not. I am not a biologist and I don't think many others here are either.

 

So, if you aren't going to trust doctors then, who do you go? If you break your back after falling of a ladder, are you going to say, "No, don't call 911, I don't want to go to the hospital because doctors work there, please take me to the herbal witch that lives next door. I trust her expertise more than I trust the doctor's." Now, you may not be visiting witches or taking herbal meds because of their so-called mystical powers, but it sounds like anyone who doesn't trust a doctor is just as crazy. I won't take any medicine unless its FDA-approved, and approved by my doctor.

 

If you're sick with a virus, are you going to sooner trust a doctor's advice or the advice of your coworker, who most likely is not medically trained or certified?

 

What I'm getting at is that, even though a doctor might be wrong, he's going to be far more right than anyone or anything else. Enough said.

[ResidentWeevil2077]

@kungfubellydancer: I don't know if it was accidental but you've put something in the wrong way. Allergies have nothing to do with deadly diseases, nor with vaccines for that matter.

She didn't - that actually was me, just so you know.

 

As it has been stated, allergies are a product of over-sterile environment, vacuuming the house with super-powered vacuum cleaners every few days renders the house dust-free, and combined with the fact children today spend most of the day in the house it sums up to children living in a dust-free environment, so their respiratory system isn't so resistant to the small particles in the air. So when they come out to the world and the great outdoors, their system is shocked by the sheer amount of pollen, dust, smoke, microorganisms and such, and cannot put up with it. The same goes for fanatically disinfecting your hands before meals, eating only very clean food, etc. You are supposed to be exposed to your environment, so your body gets used to it. Too much hygiene is as bad as too little, one has to know the golden middle.

Correct, middle-of-the-road is the way to go :thumbsup: I am happy as a clam sitting on this here fence :D

 

I don't want to depict myself as superior, but if you want the best for your children, let them be exposed to the world. They *won't* get hurt if they eat a sandwich without washing their hands once in a while, it'll build up their immune system and help them a lot. Of course one must know the limit. I know this both out of experience, observation of people that surround me and because I've talked to several experts on the matter from different areas of expertise (physicians, biologist, chemist, parents with 5 children that had much practice on the matter :D)

Exactly my point, because if you inoculate your children against everything, you won't let them have enough time to build up their immune systems naturally. In the end, you'll only do them more harm than good.

 

@rob_b: I agree with you on not trusting doctors blindly. But I do generally trust them on most things, because it is confirmed by my own conclusions, observation and tradition. But doctors sometimes tend to... Make things in an OK way rather than the right way just because it's easier. And IMO they prescribe pills, antibiotics and other medicaments a little too often, thus hindering the people's natural ability to take care of problems on their own. The weakening-of-body's-natural-resistance-effect of many unnecessary medicaments should be more stressed. Mind that I'm talking about the unnecessary ones, I'll take antibiotics if I have influenza or if I'm more seriously ill but I'll fight cough, headache, and all minor and mediocre problems on my own. And it tends to work, as I am almost never sick and even when I am it's just common cold or something like that. I believe it's so because of my attitude with hygiene, medicaments, food, self-healing and such stuff.

I also see that physicians are a little too eager with their pens and prescription paper - I had an argument with someone here before about the wondrous "cure-all" pill. There is NO SUCH THING. Anyone fool enough to believe that shouldn't be trusted at all.

 

However, I must point out that you don't fight flu with antibiotics - you only use those for bacterial[/b] infections, like strep throat. And because doctors are now prescribing too many antibiotics, they're usefulness is dwindling (as in becoming ineffective against bacterial infections). Here is what I mean by my not trusting doctors - they're now becoming too lazy to actually find out exactly what is wrong with someone, and all too eager to prescribe a pill. I'm not going to let that happen to me.

[ResidentWeevil2077]

I think when I mentioned the deadly diseases in my post, I thought I made it clear that the idea was BAD, and that I WASN'T about to introduce anyone to deadly diseases. Besides, this statement is what I'm getting from the articles, not necessarily what I believe or don't believe. And if anyone wants to know where these articles are from, I'll tell you, because I have 2 of the 3 magazines (parenting mags) in the house. The other one was from an issue of TIME magazine from fall or summer of 2007, I believe. But if you are curious I will tell you the exact title and issue of each mag.

 

Remember, this is what I understood from these articles, and not necessarily what I can say is true or not. I am not a biologist and I don't think many others here are either.

Actually, now that you mention it, I would like to see these articles - only the gist of each is necessary. At least this will put some understanding between the both of us, k?

 

So, if you aren't going to trust doctors then, who do you go? If you break your back after falling of a ladder, are you going to say, "No, don't call 911, I don't want to go to the hospital because doctors work there, please take me to the herbal witch that lives next door. I trust her expertise more than I trust the doctor's." Now, you may not be visiting witches or taking herbal meds because of their so-called mystical powers, but it sounds like anyone who doesn't trust a doctor is just as crazy. I won't take any medicine unless its FDA-approved, and approved by my doctor.

If I got into an accident and broke my back, of course I'll want someone to call 911, I ain't dumb like that lol. But that isn't quite the point here. I'm only saying that sometimes, the doctors are wrong when it comes to certain acquired illnesses. Like flu. I'm not trying to disagree with you KungFu, you're my friend, and I'm only trying to look out for you, that's all. I hope you don't feel offended by my comments :(

 

If you're sick with a virus, are you going to sooner trust a doctor's advice or the advice of your coworker, who most likely is not medically trained or certified?

Of course I'd trust a certified, licenced physician's advice. But I actually wouldn't TBH - the only people I trust are my mom, my girlfriend, and myself. I haven't gotten sick with flu for a while, and I never went to see a doctor for that at all (in fact, I quit seeing a physician for about 5 years now) - hasn't done me any harm.

 

What I'm getting at is that, even though a doctor might be wrong, he's going to be far more right than anyone or anything else. Enough said.

Right - 'nuff said 8)

[Eiden]

I realize we've veered off topic somewhat. There are so many tangents to follow up on, and each is a worthy topic of discussion in it's own right.

 

To the point, yes, mandatory vaccinations for school children are good as the immunity granted in childhood are good for an entire lifetime. At least, in most cases.

 

On the tangents. Flu shot: your choice.( A waste of time and money imo.) For people having babies.....eat healthy, BE healthy and breast feed, unless, there is something wrong with you and you are unable to do so. All mammals receive antibodies from their mother via the umbilical cord while in the womb, and then in the form of colostrum available in the mother's milk during the first one to three weeks depending on species. The colostrum is very dense and rich in antibodies which the mother's body produces giving a newborn's immune system a kick start. In regard to trusting doctors, to follow blindly anyone, is not a good idea, if you are not sure of the advice your doctor gives you, seek a second or third opinion. Yes, too many doctors prescribe antibiotics to easily. If, as in the case of my last doctor, he refuses to prescribe anything unless he deems it absolutely necessary, people will go to another doctor that will. We the patients are as much the problem as the doctors. People want a quick fix, even to something as simple as a cold. Walk into any clinic or emergency room and your bound to find it chock full of idiots and morons taking up space and usually tax payer money to get a pill to fix the common cold.

 

On a small matter.........bubonic plague is actually still viable, the last confirmed cases were in 1994. There were outbreaks in India. Also, in 1990 there was a case even in California.

 

Total derail >.>: A disease worth mentioning is Hantavirus. In Latin America and the Caribbean, it is a form of hemorrhagic fever. It was not considered a major threat in the United States because it was not known the extent to which the average citizens' health was affected. In a worst case scenario,(adults are most susceptible) the illness' onset is marked by severe flu-like symptoms, followed by heavy fluid build up in the lungs, without treatment it is surely fatal as you drown in your own fluids.(Treatment is supportive, there is no vaccine nor antibiotic for it.) A CDC study had shown that many cases of childhood asthma in Baltimore, and later in life renal failure, can be attributed to infant exposure to the hantavirus. It is found in rat and mouse urine, the urine dries, and movement such as sweeping and vacuuming turn it into an aerosol where the virus can easily invade the lungs.

 

Okay, derail off.

[ResidentWeevil2077]

On the tangents. Flu shot: your choice.( A waste of time and money imo.) For people having babies.....eat healthy, BE healthy and breast feed, unless, there is something wrong with you and you are unable to do so. All mammals receive antibodies from their mother via the umbilical cord while in the womb, and then in the form of colostrum available in the mother's milk during the first one to three weeks depending on species. The colostrum is very dense and rich in antibodies which the mother's body produces giving a newborn's immune system a kick start. In regard to trusting doctors, to follow blindly anyone, is not a good idea, if you are not sure of the advice your doctor gives you, seek a second or third opinion. Yes, too many doctors prescribe antibiotics to easily. If, as in the case of my last doctor, he refuses to prescribe anything unless he deems it absolutely necessary, people will go to another doctor that will. We the patients are as much the problem as the doctors. People want a quick fix, even to something as simple as a cold. Walk into any clinic or emergency room and your bound to find it chock full of idiots and morons taking up space and usually tax payer money to get a pill to fix the common cold.

I agree - isn't this world just full of stupid people? :P

 

Hehe... But seriously tho, the public at large needs to be aware of themselves as well as their surroundings. I couldn't have said this any better myself. People want a quick fix for something that simply cannot not be fixed so quickly, and more often than not, they want a quick fix for something that doesn't really need fixing at all. And the main reason why this has become so is because people are lacking a little thing I like to call "Common Sense".

 

Total derail >.>: A disease worth mentioning is Hantavirus. In Latin America and the Caribbean, it is a form of hemorrhagic fever. It was not considered a major threat in the United States because it was not known the extent to which the average citizens' health was affected. In a worst case scenario,(adults are most susceptible) the illness' onset is marked by severe flu-like symptoms, followed by heavy fluid build up in the lungs, without treatment it is surely fatal as you drown in your own fluids.(Treatment is supportive, there is no vaccine nor antibiotic for it.) A CDC study had shown that many cases of childhood asthma in Baltimore, and later in life renal failure, can be attributed to infant exposure to the hantavirus. It is found in rat and mouse urine, the urine dries, and movement such as sweeping and vacuuming turn it into an aerosol where the virus can easily invade the lungs.

 

Okay, derail off.

Actually, this isn't a derailment - in fact, it's quite relevant to the topic. I actually would like very much to be vaccinated against hantavirus, as well any children I have in the future. I would like to thank you very much for this bit of info, Eiden - you also get your first kudos too :thumbsup:

[kungfubellydancer]

I'm sorry about my tone here, but I get easily disturbed about the medical misinterpretation. I have had very bad experiences in life from people's lack of medical knowledge, so since then I can be mean when it comes to medical discussions. But it should be known that the opinions stated are what I see is true, and sadly, can't be changed. But I always have this saying, "no one can change you but yourself," implying that any form of trying to convince anyone of anything most likely will be to no avail until that person sees fit to change on their own accord. That's why I don't like debates much; because the people involved will never see each other's ways.

 

If you were curious about those articles, here they are. "Parenting" magazine, issue February 2008. "American Baby" magazine, issue March 2008. "TIME" magazine, issued somewhere in 2007 (must have been thrown away long ago.) They all have pretty much the same article, same information.

[kungfubellydancer]

I forgot to mention that I have not said anything about antibiotics and very much know that antibiotics are useless against viruses and only make things worse. This is a common medical fact that I repeatedly mention to many people. Second, I am a firm believer in breast-feeding, which was actually recommended by several doctors, as well as family members.

 

Actually I saw an episode of Simpsons today that mentioned the Hanta Virus.

[ResidentWeevil2077]

I'm sorry about my tone here, but I get easily disturbed about the medical misinterpretation. I have had very bad experiences in life from people's lack of medical knowledge, so since then I can be mean when it comes to medical discussions. But it should be known that the opinions stated are what I see is true, and sadly, can't be changed. But I always have this saying, "no one can change you but yourself," implying that any form of trying to convince anyone of anything most likely will be to no avail until that person sees fit to change on their own accord. That's why I don't like debates much; because the people involved will never see each other's ways.

I know, I'm not trying persuade you otherwise KungFu - you only trust what you know through your experiences, right? The only thing that matters is as long as there is an understanding between both you and I, then I have no quarrel with anyone. And you're not mean - trust me, I've seen PLENTY of mean people in my 22 years on this planet, and you don't seem to fit that persona ;)

 

As for disliking debates, the only reason I like debating is not because I want to change the people in the debates (God forbid if I was to ever do that :ohmy: ), but to share my own opinion on the matter. The only time I ever try to point out the flaws in someone's view is if it just doesn't sound quite right to me. Or in this case, to share another viewpoint - you don't have to agree with me, but at least you'll something else to think about ;)

[Lord Slyther]

:sick: ...Ugh... This thread is sickening, I cannot believe what I am reading.

 

:sick: Well, it is nerve chilling, and I am easily scared of chemicals, so I thought I might have asked you guys. Dunno why. I just felt shooked up, and thought you guys can help calm me down.