False "save corruption" during gameplay

[cdcooley]

 

 

Changing Papyrus settings is the path to ruin. All of those settings are specifically there to prevent Papyrus from consuming all of the game's resources at the expense of AI, graphics, and everything else that makes the game work. Raising them by any substantial amount will cause far more problems than they solve because the frame rate will drop and that kills script performance. The only one that's safe to increase by anything other than very tiny amounts is fPostLoadUpdateTimeMS. That one can be raised as much as you like but it will also increase the time you spend on each load screen. You'll know you need to increase it if you find the mannequins walking around your house and weapons flying back to their racks and holders when you get home. Any tweaks that you make to Papyrus which lowers the overall frame rate will make whatever problems you're seeing worse.

 

 

I have none of those issues, and aside from the save corruption bug, I also have no script lag now.

 

[Papyrus]

bEnableLogging=0

bEnableProfiling=0

bEnableTrace=0

bLoadDebugInformation=0

fExtraTaskletBudgetMS=4 ;800

fPostLoadUpdateTimeMS=1000 ;2000

fUpdateBudgetMS=4 ;800

iMaxAllocatedMemoryBytes=153600

iMaxMemoryPageSize=512

iMinMemoryPageSize=256

*edit* to be clear I was having the corruption BEFORE these tweaks. Also, these tweaks were specifically customized to MY machine, they won't work for everyone.

 

Those tweaks are large but not completely insane. You've basically doubled the original values except for the BudgetMS values which default to 1.2. That 800 number is the sort of insane value I was talking about that people shouldn't be trying. Given that Special Edition can use more memory than the original game it might be reasonable now to double those PageSize limits like you've done. And if you're still getting a consistent 60 FPS even in combat then you haven't pushed things too far. Personally I would suggest that if people want to try making changes they try those values except start with something closer to 2 for the BudgetMS values instead of 4.

 

The old guideline SmkViper (one of the Bethesda developers responsible for Papyrus) gave us on the old forums was that if you want to change the values then you should use small amounts. He said that raising the BudgetMS numbers even from 1.2 to 1.4 or 1.6 would have visible effects if that was really the bottleneck and that anything more than doubling the originals was just setting yourself up for trouble later even if it appeared to work in the short term.

[Gothpunk4Christ]

 

Those tweaks are large but not completely insane. You've basically doubled the original values except for the BudgetMS values which default to 1.2. That 800 number is the sort of insane value I was talking about that people shouldn't be trying. Given that Special Edition can use more memory than the original game it might be reasonable now to double those PageSize limits like you've done. And if you're still getting a consistent 60 FPS even in combat then you haven't pushed things too far. Personally I would suggest that if people want to try making changes they try those values except start with something closer to 2 for the BudgetMS values instead of 4.

 

 

The old guideline SmkViper (one of the Bethesda developers responsible for Papyrus) gave us on the old forums was that if you want to change the values then you should use small amounts. He said that raising the BudgetMS numbers even from 1.2 to 1.4 or 1.6 would have visible effects if that was really the bottleneck and that anything more than doubling the originals was just setting yourself up for trouble later even if it appeared to work in the short term.

 

Yeah I found a detailed guide somewhere, and played around with it till I hit my current values. Also something with loading in game, checking console values on memory and something, but I don't think that was papyrus related. These were the values that gave me the most stability with least testing. When it worked well enough, I stopped. Played probably 100 hours since.

[Deleted109376User]

Still looking for confirmation on triggering the bug WITHOUT Achivements Enabler, associated DLL loaders, or ANY DLL loaders at all. Chag4 on the previous page ruled out 3D Sound for Headphones, and Skill Uncapper - having problems with false save corruption without using either, which would seem to narrow it down to Achievements Enabler (or associated DLL loader).

 

 

Personal anecdote: after nixing xSHADOWMANx's DLL Loader and Achievements Enabler (now using SKSE64, and appropriate Uncapper, no Achivements Enabler at all), my present new save is 13+ hours in and still trucking without a single false save corruption instance. Plenty of crafting, etc. I DID notice just as I was quitting the other day something I had thought related.

 

Symptom: When save list exceeds display height and has a scroll bar, the bottom most save would never correctly display - only being selected "off screen". Even then, it could not be overwritten, and saving over earlier files would be inconsistent, either overwriting the wrong file, or simply creating a new save with no overwrite. The latter points I didn't test when it finally did spring up, but where the scroll list was working correctly earlier in the playthrough, it was broken as I was quitting the other day. So something peculiar is still going on

The symptom isn't present after full reload, but any install I had Achievements Enabler installed on would provoke this to be IMMEDIATELY present, which is why I originally suspected it (or DLL loaders/loaded files generally).

Related to false save corruption? Something else entirely? Who knows. At least it seems possible to push both problems so far out in effective playtime that maybe it is practically possible to eliminate one or both.

NOTE: This load order also nixed, Frostfall, Campfire, Wearable Lanterns, and a few others that relied on these as dependencies. There were more changes to load order, but if the problem is relative script load for example, all else of the above could just be confirmation bias -

Edited October 15, 2017 by Guest

[Ramagast]

After installing SKSE I noticed that whenever I open up "Save" or "Load" menu, it opens twice. Like, opens (with a sound effect) and just a fraction of a second later opens again with the same sound. I wonder if this is SKSE opening it's own save and if it can be related to our problem. I still haven't encounter the bug after switching to SKSE with new official SkyUI. I dropped xSHADOWMANx's DLL Loader, but I'm still using plugin loader for SSE Fixes.

[BlueGunk]

 

 

Those tweaks are large but not completely insane. You've basically doubled the original values except for the BudgetMS values which default to 1.2. That 800 number is the sort of insane value I was talking about that people shouldn't be trying. Given that Special Edition can use more memory than the original game it might be reasonable now to double those PageSize limits like you've done. And if you're still getting a consistent 60 FPS even in combat then you haven't pushed things too far. Personally I would suggest that if people want to try making changes they try those values except start with something closer to 2 for the BudgetMS values instead of 4.

 

 

The old guideline SmkViper (one of the Bethesda developers responsible for Papyrus) gave us on the old forums was that if you want to change the values then you should use small amounts. He said that raising the BudgetMS numbers even from 1.2 to 1.4 or 1.6 would have visible effects if that was really the bottleneck and that anything more than doubling the originals was just setting yourself up for trouble later even if it appeared to work in the short term.

 

Yeah I found a detailed guide somewhere, and played around with it till I hit my current values. Also something with loading in game, checking console values on memory and something, but I don't think that was papyrus related. These were the values that gave me the most stability with least testing. When it worked well enough, I stopped. Played probably 100 hours since.

 

 

After reading those tweaks I thought - I've got little to lose in my dialogue-scrambled mess I may as well try them.

 

Heck - it all but works! I still get a little dialogue choice scramble, but now if I re-ask the NPC I'll get the right choices. It's about 70% better than it was before.

 

I've been incredibly wary of fiddling with Papyrus settings in Old Skyrim due to the fact some of the silly ones were throwing memory at script events that might at busier times take a fraction of a millisecond longer to trigger. But the world of SE seems to be more generous on memory and I've got a CPU with a big heart.

These genuinely appear to have helped me.

 

I'll retain them for the time being until SKSE 64 gets established.

 

Thanks Gothpunk4Christ!

[Gothpunk4Christ]

Np, Blue, you may need to tweak the '4' values either way depending, and the memory values as well depending on your setup. I forgot which way which for what result. I set it up and forgot everything I researched.

[Deleted109376User]

BlueGunk (or anyone with a known problem save for that matter) do you have an DINPUT8.dll file in your root SkyrimSE install folder?

I still haven't encounter the bug after switching to SKSE with new official SkyUI. I dropped xSHADOWMANx's DLL Loader, but I'm still using plugin loader for SSE Fixes.

Did you make this switch on your existing save?
Do you use Achievements Enabler or no?

Edited October 16, 2017 by Guest

[walshy71]

BlueGunk (or anyone with a known problem save for that matter) do you have an DINPUT8.dll file in your root SkyrimSE install folder?

 

I still haven't encounter the bug after switching to SKSE with new official SkyUI. I dropped xSHADOWMANx's DLL Loader, but I'm still using plugin loader for SSE Fixes.

Did you make this switch on your existing save?

Do you use Achievements Enabler or no?

 

I hate to crap on your theory but I was getting the false save game corruption before I installed any of the two DLL loaders! Like I keep saying the first instance of this happening was after the Dec/Jan/Feb update and that's also when this thread opened. And I'm certain that Ramagast wasn't using the DLL loaders as well if I'm remembering correctly!

[Deleted109376User]

Nah, that's cool. I'd prefer the certainty. Even if it only means we're certain that is no certain cause.

Still, if the best we can do is narrow down what things have a greater propensity to provoke the problem, that's something.

[freestonew]

hi all

 

I have a great mystery.

a script mystery.

 

I have looked at two humongous mods, on nexus.

 

the great nexus overhaul.

and...

the legacy of the dragonborn.

 

[i seem not to be able to copy paste the url into this message box.]

 

each mod has a zillion scripts.

 

the overhaul mod looks to smush, merge, together over 100 mods and they claim very few conflicts.

 

the legacy mod is where you join a collectors guild and then have a huge museum where you store all of the items and rare artifacts that you find on your journeys. imagine the scripts here!! a huge huge series of rooms full of hundreds of items!

 

and so what, people, is my Mystery?!

 

why....I have not seen one peep, one complaint, on the forms for each mod that their save game has been borfed and ruined by the infamous script bug!!

 

*how* can they play these mods and not have problems? like play to completion of the game, no less.

 

then some people play both TOGETHER!

[wince]

 

there is a patch to do this.

 

how can they do it, by play hour, say...100?!

 

freestone