False "save corruption" during gameplay

[walshy71]

Well. If you use a basic scientific method: observe, hypothizse, test. I can disprove the thrashing bug. I'm not getting the bug, and I am over 270 esps currently if you take into account my disabled esps. And my last build when I was getting it every 15min or less, I had 235 counting disabled. That's two different builds that disprove it.

 

Best guess: It's multifactoral. I think the new engine can defiantly handle a lot more bumps and errors before crashing. But I do feel that the old form plays a roll. 1-2 probably ok depending on the mod. Multiple, and a few errors here or there from bad conversions or sloppy edits....too many straws on the camel.

 

Obviously we all harp on "good modding practices". I think just adds another layer: Check your mods form number and check it for errors in SSEdit before you add it to your game or merge it. And if you convert it, ESMify it's masters. That's the route I took. And now I have an awesome running game with more mods than before. No bug. Granted took more time to build....but no having to restart all the time makes it worth it.

 

 

Side note: I added AFT back to the game. 1 hour of solid testing. No bugs. So it is good to go.

 

Also of note: I am beta testing the 2.1 version of MO2. I don't think it has anything to do with it. But it is a variable so I will state it. This weekend when I get home, I will post my load order so you guys can look at it. It will at least give everyone a list of mods known not to cause the bug.

 

Next up is Campfire and Frostfall. Then I will put in AO2, and Sounds of Skyrim once AO2 gets updated.

 

Good stuff Waylander will be interested to see your load order!

[cdcooley]

I think that I will now throw out some other ideas as to why the save game corruptions.

 

just theories. you all may think about them, accept them, put them down...what ever.

 

I can address some of those theories based on what the SKSE team reported finding while digging around to add the co-save support, on what SmkViper has shared about how the scripting system works, and my own experiments related to save game corruption ever since we had problems in Morrowind.

 

You actually can't overwrite old Skyrim save games the way you describe. When you choose that option Skyrim simply deletes the old one then saves a new one with that name. That's a pleasant change from how some earlier games worked but it means overwriting can't be the source of problems.

 

On a related note there's absolutely nothing different at a technical level between "regular" saves, quicksaves, and autosaves. They all use exactly the same save process. People who turn off autosaves are doing nothing to make the game more stable. There is a crazy theory floating around that autosaves cause crashes because the game frequently crashes at the time an autosave is made. The reality is that the developers knew when the game was most likely to crash (cell transitions, waiting, sleeping, etc.) and specifically trigger an autosave right before the crash is likely to happen so that if the game does crash you won't actually lose any game play time. Turning off those autosaves simply means if the crash happens you might need to go back to a much older save.

 

Starting to play too soon after game load, cell loads, etc. only causes problems to the extent that some things might not be in the right state. The classic problem with the cart ride at the beginning of the game is that it's a highly scripted, time-sensitive sequence so if other scripts are using too much of the scripting time budget those scripts might not be able to trigger the cart changes at the right time which allows the cart to get off of the path it's supposed to follow. If it hits bumps that aren't expected or runs into objects that can cause unwelcome interactions leading to the cart overturning, etc. Other problems like mannequins walking around your house for a little while aren't nearly as serious but they can be very distracting. The solution for those problems is the increase the post load screen update time in the Papyrus section of the INI file. (That's also the only setting that's really safe to change.)

 

Saving indoors or outside doesn't really matter because the entire state of the game needs to be saved in either case.

 

Overall this problem doesn't seem to really be a corruption of the savegame file itself. It's more of a run-time memory corruption because simply closing and restarting the game allows people to load the saves that were made.

 

What does cause real save corruption is loading a game (quick load, on death, or from the main menu) after you've already been playing. A reload after you die, quick load, or just quit to main menu and then load will not fully reset the game to a clean state and not everything from a running game gets saved. There are a number of game bugs that show up including ones that re-apply some enchantments, double the effects of some powers, etc. If you save just before combat, die, and let the game auto-load the last save everything will probably be fine. But if your last save was two hours ago that auto-load will probably result in a game with minor problems. If you actually load a save of an entirely different character you're very likely to get some major corruption. (I learned that back in Oblivion when I had been playing a character where Vilja was following me and then I loaded a save for a character that had not even met her yet. She was right there following along behind my new character but I couldn't interact with her until I actually went to the spot where I was supposed to meet her so that her dialogue to make her a proper follower could trigger. I have verified that similar problems are possible with Skyrim.)

 

Everything about this problem sounds like a memory leak and it is extremely likely to be related to either mods using DLLs, mods created by tools other than the CK which then have records that aren't correctly formatted, or simply mods that haven't been properly converted for use with SE.

 

Loading and re-saving each of your mods in the SE CK will fix both improper conversions and mods with broken records created by other tools, so everyone having this problem really should try that as the first step.

[waylander47]

Here's my load order for those interested. https://modwat.ch/u/waylander_47/plugins

[waylander47]

 

 

Everything about this problem sounds like a memory leak and it is extremely likely to be related to either mods using DLLs, mods created by tools other than the CK which then have records that aren't correctly formatted, or simply mods that haven't been properly converted for use with SE.

 

Loading and re-saving each of your mods in the SE CK will fix both improper conversions and mods with broken records created by other tools, so everyone having this problem really should try that as the first step.

 

 

I agree. Makes sense to me.

[walshy71]

 

 

 

Everything about this problem sounds like a memory leak and it is extremely likely to be related to either mods using DLLs, mods created by tools other than the CK which then have records that aren't correctly formatted, or simply mods that haven't been properly converted for use with SE.

 

Loading and re-saving each of your mods in the SE CK will fix both improper conversions and mods with broken records created by other tools, so everyone having this problem really should try that as the first step.

 

 

I agree. Makes sense to me.

 

 

Just because it's been uploaded to the SPecial Edition Nexus by someone who used it in Oldrim and misses it for the Special Edition doesn't necessarily mean they've done due diligence themselves and followed proper conversion techniques check it before adding it to your load order, resave it in the CK and optimize the meshes ... Like me for example I assumed all my mods where fine until I checked, I had eight not properly converted so goes to show. :pinch: :sad: :huh:

[Gothpunk4Christ]

Well, this time around using ONLY form 44 esps and a FRESH game, I seem to be a little luckier. Problem is I just haven't had the time to actually sit and game for extended periods. But convenient horses seems to have broken now so that really puts a damper on things lol.

 

*edit* not sure why I mentioned this as I really haven't gotten far enough into my game to have a legit result...

Edited November 3, 2017 by Gothpunk4Christ

[OnuSpell]

 

 

 

Just because it's been uploaded to the SPecial Edition Nexus by someone who used it in Oldrim and misses it for the Special Edition doesn't necessarily mean they've done due diligence themselves and followed proper conversion techniques check it before adding it to your load order, resave it in the CK and optimize the meshes ... Like me for example I assumed all my mods where fine until I checked, I had eight not properly converted so goes to show. :pinch: :sad: :huh:

 

 

Assuming the problem is the form number this will be the bigger problem. I know at least 20 or so mods I use needed to be converted to form 44, some being from fairly well known authors so they are everywhere. I have them all converted now and we will see how it goes when I start my new game in a few weeks (mostly waiting for the official port at the moment).

 

Interesting little tidbit I did find out though as I am in the process of merging mods down right now I decided to remove all the originals used in my merge in testing (basically dropped all fancy gear stopped all continuous scripts that had the option...bad modding practice I know) intriguingly just doing that seemed to stop the bug, so, I would theorize that the bug (regardless of how it is caused) is definitely affected by either active scripts or volume of form ID's. I don't think this will help fix but maybe would be the way to go if trying to break the game (i.e. create a mod that just plays hundreds of continuous scripts that do nothing noteworthy). just some thoughts.

[aleksi134]

Well, this time around using ONLY form 44 esps and a FRESH game, I seem to be a little luckier. Problem is I just haven't had the time to actually sit and game for extended periods. But convenient horses seems to have broken now so that really puts a damper on things lol.

 

*edit* not sure why I mentioned this as I really haven't gotten far enough into my game to have a legit result...

Well crafting is a easy way to make it happen.

[lethielnyrond]

What's up with Convenient Horses? I have it working fine...

[lethielnyrond]

 

There is a crazy theory floating around that autosaves cause crashes because the game frequently crashes at the time an autosave is made. The reality is that the developers knew when the game was most likely to crash (cell transitions, waiting, sleeping, etc.) and specifically trigger an autosave right before the crash is likely to happen so that if the game does crash you won't actually lose any game play time. Turning off those autosaves simply means if the crash happens you might need to go back to a much older save.

 

Well, I know that my own experience was that turning off the autosaves did indeed reduce or even eliminate crashes at those times, whichi was confirmed on a number of occasions when I reinstalled the game, began a fresh playthrough and forgot to do it beforehand...and I did it on the recommendation of others who had had the same experience. That's an awful lot of coincidences, if that's all it is. But, anecdotal evidence, if you like.

 

Lethiel