False "save corruption" during gameplay

[jaffa5]

So I have a question. I'm running into the same bug. I was running 900 mods (mostly textures, but still a lot of heavy scripts, tons of merges, all the big mods, MO2 is stacked). I ran 5 hours and no corruption. My saves were about 6.1MB. Then I added the last few mods for my dream build...and now I get the bug in about 15min. But I close out, reload the game and it works great. But every 20 mins or so I get the false save, and about every hour I notice my conversation boxes start running into issues. But if I close it and open it, runs fine again. No issue with combat, traveling, or anything, just crafting, and talking.

 

Here's my question: Are you guys still running these games? Or are you just messing around with them. I'm not sure if I want to invest a lot of time into this save if you think it will eventually just collapse.

 

I'd hate to have to dump this, I've been working at it a while, and it runs amazing, smooth, fun and no errors or conflicts, hand tailored my bash patch. Just amazing. I ran games this big in Oldrim, ran fine, would randomly crash about once an hour but never had anything like this. I'm really thinking it's an engine thing. Getingover run in working memory and then it clears when you reboot the game. Not sure how stable it is in the long run though....

 

Curious if SKSE would solve it....not that I want to pin my hopes on that.

 

I'm currently 35 hours in to my current playthrough with this bug. cleaned my saves a couple times but it's not showing any unattached instances or undefined elements. I have even saved AFTER the bug has shown my saves are corrupt and that save has run fine upon relaunching the game. i usually get about 2 hours before the bug shows up if i don't do any crafting.

 

but other than the bug i have no other issues and the game runs fine. so i don't mind restarting every couple hours. so i would say it's worth continuing your playthrough if you only get the bug every couple hours like i do.

 

 

So far, it would appear that my idea about leveled list injection may be the best lead so far if that can just be tested. I'm removing book of uunp, immersive armors, and my tera gear leveled lists and going to play with that idea some.

 

I have to agree that you may be correct. after playing with the bug for 35 hours i have noted that it tends to appear the fastest while crafting and trading with merchants. however accessing my invintory to equip items or transfer them to my companions invintorys seems not to cause the bug to appear.

[Gothpunk4Christ]

 

So far, it would appear that my idea about leveled list injection may be the best lead so far if that can just be tested. I'm removing book of uunp, immersive armors, and my tera gear leveled lists and going to play with that idea some.

 

I have to agree that you may be correct. after playing with the bug for 35 hours i have noted that it tends to appear the fastest while crafting and trading with merchants. however accessing my invintory to equip items or transfer them to my companions invintorys seems not to cause the bug to appear.

 

I thought I edited that particular post, or maybe posted after, but it had absolutely no effect. I was still able to duplicate the bug very quickly. Then I removed most every leveled list injection of armor and weapons, and I think just a couple slipped in, but was always able to duplicate by navigating through my crafting menus. Which, the base test was corrupted anyways because it wasn't completely clean leveled lists.

 

I may need to see about going back through this and testing a little better this next time. It's when I get the issue after every single crafting session that it really gets annoying. I may figure something out. I may not.

[Gothpunk4Christ]

One thing that's very frustrating is that I am VERY adept at causing this bug to happen, but not figure out what's actually causing it.

[waylander47]

I feel you. This is a very annoying bug. I wouldn't mind it so much except for the fact that I start losing conversation topics...

[Gothpunk4Christ]

Yeah, but I generally don't ever get to that point. If I've played for a while and go to save, I'll start checking if my loads are showing the image corrupt. If they do, I ~qqq and reload, after saving, of course. And I've just ran a good chunk of today with QD inventory, AFT instead of EFF, and a few other tweaks, and the issue actually seems to happen a bit faster. So, back to my preferred loadout.

 

Also, I just noticed, OBIS/OBIS Loot has had a pretty large update and all, so I caught those, uninstalled warzones, and got rid of Skyrim Flora Overhaul. Had some issue with very large low poly grass recently, realized NMM wasn't completely removing all of the actual assets of the file when moved around or overwritten, and had caused some major headaches and very large amounts of time spent trying to fix it. That said, MO2 is still in garbage phase and there's this little nagging thought in the back of my mind that NM may actually be screwing stuff up and causing this. Doubtful, but we may see when Vortex comes out.

[Ramagast]

So, I'm a bit puzzled. Why not test the conditions before speaking of game engine's limitations?
First of all, we don't see the reports of this bug on consoles lately. Consoles are running a lot of mods - often on worth hardware that we have. Simple game engine issue would trigger there a million times already.
So, I'm looking at how our game is different from the console's.

First thing I see is a number of plugins. Consoles have a stricter cap applied - I would guess because going higher means trouble. Yes, we have hard 255 limit, but "Fallout: New Vegas" had it too and everyone knows tat things go bonkers after 130-140 plugins. It was never fixed.

Second guess is the error in interface which triggers only with the specific settings. For example, SkyUI will add much more text on screen compared to the standard UI. So does the enabling of general subtitles. They are disabled by default, so a lot of users probably skip the bug by not touching these settings. It can simply be a matter of consistently trying to put a number of symbols on a screen that breaks the game. It's possible that consoles just have another text/localization system. I like this guess because we have a bug that affects only the interface, so isn't it logical to start looking for it inside the interface section?

And the third guess is that bug is triggered by the mods that never go to the consoles. It includes self-ported mods, SkyUI, DLL mods, and a number of others.

I feel that it's more productive to start testing the game with these theories in mind than to randomly add and remove mods.Theories are created to be broken. So, once someone will get the bug with 100 plugins we'll know that simply going higher than some hidden limit doesn't trigger it automatically.
Strings count is another promising theory, but in my testing I failed to see any proof that the number of strings is connected with the bug emergence. 35k strings is the average number of strings reported in this topic - and people are getting the bug with this. But taking the fresh game and just raising the number of strings to 100k doesn't result in a bug. So, it's not a direct product of a high string count.

[Gothpunk4Christ]

...First thing I see is a number of plugins. Consoles have a stricter cap applied - I would guess because going higher means trouble. Yes, we have hard 255 limit, but "Fallout: New Vegas" had it too and everyone knows tat things go bonkers after 130-140 plugins. It was never fixed.

 

Second guess is the error in interface which triggers only with the specific settings. For example, SkyUI will add much more text on screen compared to the standard UI. So does the enabling of general subtitles. They are disabled by default, so a lot of users probably skip the bug by not touching these settings. It can simply be a matter of consistently trying to put a number of symbols on a screen that breaks the game. It's possible that consoles just have another text/localization system. I like this guess because we have a bug that affects only the interface, so isn't it logical to start looking for it inside the interface section?

 

And the third guess is that bug is triggered by the mods that never go to the consoles. It includes self-ported mods, SkyUI, DLL mods, and a number of others.

 

I feel that it's more productive to start testing the game with these theories in mind than to randomly add and remove mods.Theories are created to be broken. So, once someone will get the bug with 100 plugins we'll know that simply going higher than some hidden limit doesn't trigger it automatically.

Strings count is another promising theory, but in my testing I failed to see any proof that the number of strings is connected with the bug emergence. 35k strings is the average number of strings reported in this topic - and people are getting the bug with this. But taking the fresh game and just raising the number of strings to 100k doesn't result in a bug. So, it's not a direct product of a high string count.

 

1) Yeah, I agree, however I had this issue without SkyUI (tested most of today actually) and several other users had referred to having this before/without using SkyUI. QD Inventory is more akin to the stock version of the UI but with slightly different font, and relatively same amount of screen space (that I can tell). The problem is, there's a lot more in depth below just the interface section, because the interface section (from what I can understand anyways) basically interacts with every other aspect of the game and/or engine. Other than running a completely fresh install with 100 or so random mods and no interface mods, getting this bug would only confirm that this bug happens with this particular mod setup. From there, it can start to be whittled away to try and determine the root cause, but as of now, it seems the best we have is "it could be literally just about anything." The only way we can figure out is to test our ideas, as silly as they seem. Someone may just accidentally stumble across something that sparks the grand resolution of what this actually is.

 

2) This is entirely legitimate, but still partially tying in with my first rambling point above, I actually initially started playing with no UI improvements. That actually drove me back to LE, but once I got tired of all the CTDs, general instability, and lack of better graphical effects, I started the more permanent switch to SE. It's really hard to go back, for any reason now. I actually usually play with subtitles because I have background music going, or I have my volume low as to not disturb anyone, so I may not be the best candidate to test this particular function. What disabling subtitles for me will do is help lead to my testing of whether the bug actually happens on death or not, because I won't hear the frost trolls sneaking up behind me. Otherwise, see if we can figure out some way to test the other aspects, as far as localization. I don't speak any other languages, and we have no clue if the japanese or french are also having this issue. I'm not so sure if this is directly interface related though, because just because we do have to look at the interface to encounter the bug (HUD, fonts, inventory screens etc) doesn't mean that's exactly where the issue lies. I wish we could get a solid way to test it though, and unless someone's willing to play with "tm" enabled on the console (I doubt that would even work like we want, lol) I'm not even sure it's something we could even rely on. Anyone have ideas on this, or am I just rambling again?

 

3) This is also very legitimate and potentially the source of our problems. I've tried to shave down my regular mods (ESP only, textures I don't think counts) but I was entirely unable to get this bug to appear on a completely blank slate, trying to push all the buttons and everything I would normally do in order to get this to appear. I was entirely UNABLE to reproduce this without mods installed. I tested several different theories and wasn't able to make any headway. In the following scenarios, I was unable to reproduce the bug.

• Only running mods that add enemies. (Warzones/OBIS, More Bandit Camps)
• Only running crafting mods that did NOT inject leveled lists. (Ars Metallica, TERA armor/weapons without the LL additions, etc)
• Stock, un-modded install. I raised my crafting all the way to 100, smelted, ran to the major cities and bought and sold the ENTIRE INVENTORY to several of the merchants, and ended up with over 160K encumbrance. Massive lag at times when opening and viewing inventory, but no corruption bug. Also got a gold bug, but that seemed to eventually clear up.
• Crafting mods that did inject leveled lists, with a wrye bashed patch. Lots of crafting/smelting/buying/selling like previous and also upgrading each weapon/armor piece, and a hefty bought of carpel tunnel.

Several of these tests I DID end up having UI mods. The more I think about these scenarios, the more I think that it could actually indeed be tied to an ESP count because individually, I have yet to be able to force the bug unless multiple conditions were met. And that is what makes it so hard to pinpoint specifically. I've tested all the theories I proposed as best I could, but I'm really getting burned out trying force it. Maybe I missed something though.

 

If we could coordinate a plan of attack, we may be able to brute force a test with multiple people with multiple scenarios and see who of the group managed to cause issues, if any. But I also thing we need some genius to write up a program that would monitor what's going on with the engine in each scenario, and give us a factual data representation of what's actually going on. There's a lot of stuff in the background that we can't see going on, and it's frustrating as crap. I feel like I'm just stabbing blindly in the dark with a toothpick, trying to hit a dime sized object that MIGHT be within 50 foot of me, in any direction.

 

I lean towards inventory system in some way because I can faithfully reproduce the issue when crafting large amounts of items, something I can NOT reproduce with an un-modded game.

 

I'm going to stop talking now because I think I'm just rambling, trying to throw ideas even if they're bad ones and hope someone somewhere can make sense of it.

[Gothpunk4Christ]

So, I'm a bit puzzled. Why not test the conditions before speaking of game engine's limitations?

Oh, and probably because it's Bethesda. We're used to bad engines. :P

 

But more on the lines of (like my previous posts suggested) that WE are the ones overloading it with so many mods.

[zhengwei7456]

For me, I use to have the issue from time to time especially after a big battle. Removing OBIS Loot fixed my game, now I'm 20+ hours without the issue. I use lots of NPC/Creature/Enemy populate mods so I don't use Frostfall or Wet&Cold (use self ported Get Snowy).

I don't think it's OBIS Loot causing the issue, it's just feel like the game engine couldn't handle so many content and script mods.

400+ mods and 250 plugins.

[Gothpunk4Christ]

For me, I use to have the issue from time to time especially after a big battle. Removing OBIS Loot fixed my game, now I'm 20+ hours without the issue. I use lots of NPC/Creature/Enemy populate mods so I don't use Frostfall or Wet&Cold (use self ported Get Snowy).

I don't think it's OBIS Loot causing the issue, it's just feel like the game engine couldn't handle so many content and script mods.

400+ mods and 250 plugins.

I want to say I tried this and still encountered the issue. It may be more dependent on each person's individual mod setup though. If we can at least figure out a theme, it would be a lot easier. So far, it seems like "too many mods" but you technically have a higher plugin count than I do right now. I removed warzones, a mod I imagine is one of my largest scripted mods (next to forgotten dungeons) and have still encountered the issue.

 

I'll try removing OBIS loot, keep playing and report back.

 

*edit* In my VERY short testing run at level 3 I had been able to force the bug by running through my crafting menus with OBIS loot installed, I removed OBIS loot and the hotfix patch and so far, in my also very short test, have not been able to duplicate the bug. BUT if ONE person here can confirm they DO get the bug without OBIS loot, then it may pave the argument towards "too many things at once," considering it added NOTHING to my crafting list yet. If I am unable to continue to get the bug without OBIS loot, I will reinstall my TERA armor and weapon mods (those DO add items to the crafting menu) and if I still am unable to get the bug, it may come down to that individual file. Will test more tomorrow when I'm not actively trying to avoid passing out at my keyboard.

Edited August 23, 2017 by Gothpunk4Christ