ModelV Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) As in the Sheogorath you actually encounter in Skyrim... Edited January 12, 2012 by ModelV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 As in the Sheogorath you actually encounter in Skyrim... But he wasn't Shaeogorath at the time. Its a more complex thing than just saying 'King Arthur stopped a Saxon invasion', which he indeed did before becomming king, because the Champion of Cyrodiil became a completely different person when he assumed the role of Sheogorath. In a way, the Champion died, and Sheogorath lived on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marharth Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Sheogorath is not a different person. He has the same memories as the champion of cyrodiil, and even the same opinions in a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Sheogorath is not a different person. He has the same memories as the champion of cyrodiil, and even the same opinions in a way. Memories do not make a person, though they do shape them. The personality, actions and attitudes of Sheogorath in Skyrim indicate that he is still the same Sheogorath as before, meaning that the greater person of Sheogorath subsumed the weaker person of the Champion. The physical body may be the same (And even then, probably isnt) but the individual we see if very much Sheogorath, not the Champion of Cyrodiil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marharth Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Sheogorath is not a different person. He has the same memories as the champion of cyrodiil, and even the same opinions in a way. Memories do not make a person, though they do shape them. The personality, actions and attitudes of Sheogorath in Skyrim indicate that he is still the same Sheogorath as before, meaning that the greater person of Sheogorath subsumed the weaker person of the Champion. The physical body may be the same (And even then, probably isnt) but the individual we see if very much Sheogorath, not the Champion of Cyrodiil.We see that he is crazy. That doesn't show that he is a completely different person. The champion of cyrodiil can very well be crazy as well. Just because they act in a similar way doesn't mean he is a completely different person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 We can argue this back and forth forever, regardless of the fact we both agree on the pertinant note for the OP. Daedra are no 'Good' or 'Evil'. They commit good and evil acts, and one may have a dispossition towards acts of a certian type, but we lack a key determing factor. Intent. If you opt to blow up a house with 6 people in it instead of a office building with 100, are you evil? You commited an evil act, but did so to prevent a more evil one. Your intent is good, even if the outcome is evil. And thats a very grey example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eltucu Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 1. Azura - she's not evil IMO. They are tampering with a Daedric artifact to store human souls in it (that in my book is evil. Anything done to stop that is good. Thank you Full Metal Alchemist for giving me the morality to not tamper with human souls). The wizards minions were feeding human souls into the star. I'd say stopping that was good.Agree. 2. Meridia - This was one quest I was really happy to make. You got a necromancer using the magics hidden in the temple to raise an army of the dead? and your mission is to stop him and the reward is essentially an anti-undead sword of light! Bring it on!Agree. 3. Mephala - Ok she's evil, and is corrupting the kid. When she said I should kill the Jarl or Farengar to get the key, that's where I balked a bit. Its not me to kill a "friend". Although Farengar is annoying. So I tried pickpocketing, and got away with it. Took the sword and locked it away in my house, so I say this is good if you don't kill anyone.Agree. 4. Boethiah - This is one bad quest. Makes you kill a follower. Just did it to get rid of the annoying mage in riften and to get the mission out of the journal. After I finished, read it up on WiKi and apparently it says you can just kill all of her followers and she will appear, you don't need to kill your companion. Not tested.Error in the quest. If you kill their followers, the next stage of the quest triggers before it should. Besides, that whole "survival of the fittest and the rest dies" well, not good. 5. Clavicus Vile - This one is not bad. You're just helping a pet get back to the master. In fact, choose all the "good guy" options and you'll get the daedric artifact.Clavicus Vile is not just bad, is twisted bad. Just listen what he says. He is the god of pacts, pacts wich mortals regret. The kind of god who would kill everyone so the war stops. That doesnt rings a bell to you?6. Mehrunes Dagon - A bit of a toss up. Kill the guy who is obsessed by the Mythic Dawn and is trying to make a nuke and take it for yourself, or let the nuke stay broken. There is only the two of you who knows about the dagger, and there's no saying he won't find another person to sacrifice to Mehrunes to get his nuke.Nah, just leave all the "invade nirn and make it my bishie" thing out! lol Dagon is fckd up buddy, fckd up. His artifact the badge of assassins.7. Hermaeus Mora - Not really good nor really evil. Wasn't even really sure it was a Daedric quest until he appeared. He just asked me to collect blood, which I got from bandits, so no harm done really.Did you missed the part of "well, since i dont need the old man, im going to kill him" ? Or the part in wich he asked for sacrifices? Do you pay attention at all?8. Namira - one I would not do if it were in real life. I'm no cannibal. Agree.9. Sanguine - nothing bad here! just a night of drinking and trying to find out what exactly happened last night. Like a Tamriel version of "The Hangover".Well... I have yet to see if he is as twisted as Clavicus. So agree, for now.10. Hircine - here you are given two choices. Help someone trying to make a new life, or kill him for his past crime. Your choice, but either way both choices aren't evil IMO.He as a realm dedicated to the hunt of the weak. wtf did you think he is called the king of the hunt? He doesnt cares for good or evil, but for the hunter and his prey.11. Nocturnal - Best and most not evil quests of a Daedra there is! Unless you feel that the Thieves Guild is an evil bunch. Its part of their questline.Taking in account the curse of the Cowl of Nocturnal, well, she isnt nice per se (that artifact was stolen from her though). But yeah, pretty harmless.12. Vaermina - I really did not trust that Dunmer, especially when I found out he betrayed his compatriots and left them to rot. So when Vaermina told me that he really just wanted to Skull for his own, I killed him.lol dude, she deceived you. The dark elf destroys the staff. He doesnt keeps it for himself nor he tries to kill you with it. Actually, he can be your follower afterwards.13. Peyrite - nothing evil here IMO, just a quest to kill a traitor.Does god of disease and famine says something to you?14. Malacath - help him get rid of a cowardly good for nothing Orc chief who makes life hard for his orcs. What's bad about that?That malacath is cruel, he doesnt cares why you're look weak to him, he'd want you removed of existence anyway. I agree for the rest, that particular orc was an ass (and stupid, "Could you kill the giant for me please?" *kills the giant in two swings* "Well, im going to kill u now cuz i dun want u to spoil my victory HURR DUR" *sword to the eye* ).15. Sheogorath - This was just crazy. An old man just asked to look for his master and I ended up talking to Sheogorath. He was a bit funny though and very thoroughly not right in the end, but there was nothing evil in this quest. You actually did a little good for Pelagius' tormented soul.Sheogorath can be just funny crazy, or killing spree crazy while bathing in the blood of his victims. So yeah, not exactly good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chanchan05 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 @eltucu I was talking about decisions you make in the quest, so your arguments whether or not a particular daedra can be considered evil is valid in the context of the question. Take Clavicus Vile, even if he is twisted, he did not ask me to do evil things, so in essence, my character was not an evil guy. So is Malacath, cruel he may be, you were just trying to help the orcs get back on their feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintAnon Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 @eltucu I was talking about decisions you make in the quest, so your arguments whether or not a particular daedra can be considered evil is valid in the context of the question. Take Clavicus Vile, even if he is twisted, he did not ask me to do evil things, so in essence, my character was not an evil guy. So is Malacath, cruel he may be, you were just trying to help the orcs get back on their feet. Be that as it may Vaermina still totally fooled you into doing evil... :whistling: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chanchan05 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 @eltucu I was talking about decisions you make in the quest, so your arguments whether or not a particular daedra can be considered evil is valid in the context of the question. Take Clavicus Vile, even if he is twisted, he did not ask me to do evil things, so in essence, my character was not an evil guy. So is Malacath, cruel he may be, you were just trying to help the orcs get back on their feet. Be that as it may Vaermina still totally fooled you into doing evil... :whistling: Yeah, well that's called immersion. LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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