[WIP] Belua Sanguinare Revisited

[MofoMojo]

They're easter eggs for a reason :P

 

Hahahaha....ok, having kids I should have realized that second one. Haven't seen the first one though.

[Jakisthe]

The Call of Hircine thread got me thinking...what about vampirically inclined factions? I know that covens/clans/covenants/moots/what have you are all very big in semi-recent vampire lore (although I don't recall that being in the really old material, but oh well it fits), so here's what I was thinking:

 

And yes, I know I'm bad at naming :ermm:

 

-Of The First: Very much relegated to the ways of "classic" vampires, the most powerful ones are in this, although their stodgy methods have come into question since Tamriel fell into turmoil.

Possible Related Quests: Turning jarls into vampires via biting, spreading rumors of power among other clans, taking in a certain population of a town, werewolf hunting.

Opponents: Nightlive

Allies: Puredrinkers

Neutral: Searchers

End Power Gained: Majesty-Can convince non-essential NPCs to follow them to the end the world; allows them to serve as an unlimited, and willing, source of blood.

 

-Puredrinkers: Essentially, the opposite of the Thalmor in that they're racist, but they believe it to be a needed trait to exist in a world becoming increasingly pushed to the brink of racial tension. Take pleasure in their condition. Hunt Thalmor for sport?

Possible Quests: Killing (not turning) "lesser" races, whoever that would be, committing violent crimes in cities whilst unseen to incite fear, begrudgingly helping the OTFs for a cut of their quests, quickly becoming as powerful as possible, killing hunters.

Opponents: Searchers

Allies: Of The First

Neutral: Nightlive

End Power Gained: Sanguine Sword-For the cost of all of their stamina, right arm becomes an instant kill blade (some kind of auto-equipt masking weapon) which instantly kills opponents 5 or more levels less than the player and restores 30% of their health.

 

-Searchers: A very new group trying to find a cure for their disease, although some have been driven insane by guilt and overwhelming senses of failure.

Possible Related Quests: Finding various ingredients, invoking daedric gods/divines for help, experiments at mages college, collecting blood samples from all other vampires+humans.

Opponents: Puredrinkers

Allies: Nightlive

Neutral: Of the First

End Power Gained: Counter Radiance-No longer take sun damage, only take half as much fire and silver damage.

 

-Nightlive: Relatively meritocratically based, and doing all they can to form a new society of vampires where they can live as they need to. Holds only to necessity.

Possible Quests: Waylaying/convincing suspicious hunting parties that it's a normal society, maintaining necessity facilities (human farms, as it were), political talks with Puredrinkers to back down, developing ways to lessen damage from weaknesses.

Opponents: Puredrinkers

Allies: Searchers

Neutral: Of The First

End Power Gained: Facade-No longer automatically attacked, no changes at all to speech skills, can commit crimes that are only traced back to the player when they're in that same stage of vampirism.

 

 

-Clad of Burning Coruscation: Not vampires at all, but rather human hunters of them.

Possible Quests: Answering bounties for specific, high level vampires, purging a town by consecrating their water supply, silently killing vampires hiding in society, recruitment

Opponents: All of the above.

End Power Gained: Mercurial Conflagration-An auto leveling (ie, always gains max possible stats from being improved with quicksilver) two handed silver sword which has banish and flame damage on it, as well as a +10% chance to decapitate.

 

 

 

 

Each would have a (not that extravagant) base of operations and maybe...10 or so members. Obviously, this is far more complex than what I had originally planned, and is even more obviously impossible without CK, but I think it brings vampires closer to the force that they should be, and leads well [or at least better] into my end idea of having vampires fight werewolves over control of a separate city.

[elricshan]

The Call of Hircine thread got me thinking...what about vampirically inclined factions? I know that covens/clans/covenants/moots/what have you are all very big in semi-recent vampire lore (although I don't recall that being in the really old material, but oh well it fits), so here's what I was thinking:

 

And yes, I know I'm bad at naming :ermm:

 

-Of The First: Very much relegated to the ways of "classic" vampires, the most powerful ones are in this, although their stodgy methods have come into question since Tamriel fell into turmoil.

Possible Related Quests: Turning jarls into vampires via biting, spreading rumors of power among other clans, taking in a certain population of a town, werewolf hunting.

Opponents: Nightlive

Allies: Puredrinkers

Neutral: Searchers

End Power Gained: Majesty-Can convince non-essential NPCs to follow them to the end the world; allows them to serve as an unlimited, and willing, source of blood.

 

-Puredrinkers: Essentially, the opposite of the Thalmor in that they're racist, but they believe it to be a needed trait to exist in a world becoming increasingly pushed to the brink of racial tension. Take pleasure in their condition. Hunt Thalmor for sport?

Possible Quests: Killing (not turning) "lesser" races, whoever that would be, committing violent crimes in cities whilst unseen to incite fear, begrudgingly helping the OTFs for a cut of their quests, quickly becoming as powerful as possible, killing hunters.

Opponents: Searchers

Allies: Of The First

Neutral: Nightlive

End Power Gained: Sanguine Sword-For the cost of all of their stamina, right arm becomes an instant kill blade (some kind of auto-equipt masking weapon) which instantly kills opponents 5 or more levels less than the player and restores 30% of their health.

 

-Searchers: A very new group trying to find a cure for their disease, although some have been driven insane by guilt and overwhelming senses of failure.

Possible Related Quests: Finding various ingredients, invoking daedric gods/divines for help, experiments at mages college, collecting blood samples from all other vampires+humans.

Opponents: Puredrinkers

Allies: Nightlive

Neutral: Of the First

End Power Gained: Counter Radiance-No longer take sun damage, only take half as much fire and silver damage.

 

-Nightlive: Relatively meritocratically based, and doing all they can to form a new society of vampires where they can live as they need to. Holds only to necessity.

Possible Quests: Waylaying/convincing suspicious hunting parties that it's a normal society, maintaining necessity facilities (human farms, as it were), political talks with Puredrinkers to back down, developing ways to lessen damage from weaknesses.

Opponents: Puredrinkers

Allies: Searchers

Neutral: Of The First

End Power Gained: Facade-No longer automatically attacked, no changes at all to speech skills, can commit crimes that are only traced back to the player when they're in that same stage of vampirism.

 

 

-Clad of Burning Coruscation: Not vampires at all, but rather human hunters of them.

Possible Quests: Answering bounties for specific, high level vampires, purging a town by consecrating their water supply, silently killing vampires hiding in society, recruitment

Opponents: All of the above.

End Power Gained: Mercurial Conflagration-An auto leveling (ie, always gains max possible stats from being improved with quicksilver) two handed silver sword which has banish and flame damage on it, as well as a +10% chance to decapitate.

 

 

 

 

Each would have a (not that extravagant) base of operations and maybe...10 or so members. Obviously, this is far more complex than what I had originally planned, and is even more obviously impossible without CK, but I think it brings vampires closer to the force that they should be, and leads well [or at least better] into my end idea of having vampires fight werewolves over control of a separate city.

 

hmm how then about the vampire lords? the strongest vampires wil get that title and that the vampire race have a holy city inside a mountain where all clans will meet and can not attack one another unless it is in a duel. the city is ruled by the vampire lords who other vampires look in like goodly beengs because of their power and so they rule the vampire society with fear and power. it must always atleast be one vampire lord at the city at all times or atlest one the lords have sent in their place.

 

they are the only one that can choose or acksept. (the clan chooses but the lords must axsept?)

 

maybe seven lords each having his and hers own goal and personality

[Jakisthe]

That's interesting, but I think it might veer a little to much to the side of vampirism....unless there is something existing in the TES lore about a vampire city, I'd rather stick with general social conventions that I've seen across quite a few vampire stories instead of stacking it all into one massive city/area. The lords is kinda the same idea. Vampires, as far as I can tell, didn't even really play much of a role until Oblivion, and even then they were small at best. Introducing the idea of an entire city and unified social system seems a bit...overkill-y.

 

Also, that would be much, much more complex than what was originally a very complex idea in the first place. Seven distinct lords and competing politically? That's more complex than the existing jarl system, and left to people much, much more professional than me. :wacko:

[MofoMojo]

That's interesting, but I think it might veer a little to much to the side of vampirism....unless there is something existing in the TES lore about a vampire city, I'd rather stick with general social conventions that I've seen across quite a few vampire stories instead of stacking it all into one massive city/area. The lords is kinda the same idea. Vampires, as far as I can tell, didn't even really play much of a role until Oblivion, and even then they were small at best. Introducing the idea of an entire city and unified social system seems a bit...overkill-y.

 

Also, that would be much, much more complex than what was originally a very complex idea in the first place. Seven distinct lords and competing politically? That's more complex than the existing jarl system, and left to people much, much more professional than me. :wacko:

 

I agree here with you here. It's obvious going to certain "Dens" such as Broken Fang, that there's a small sense of ... coventry(?) (coven like) behavior within Skyrim. I haven't run across many other Vampires or personally seen any vampire related quests. We do know that in Skyrim they "move" between some places within their coffins or boxes. For instance this journal entry:

 

"This war isn't as good for business as I'd thought it would be. Sure the pay is good, but the runs are harder with all the extra soldiers on the roads and finding jobs that are worth the risk is difficult. Like our current job. Guy hires us to move a bunch of crates with few questions asked. So we get the goods here and I take a look in the boxes, just to know what I've gotten myself into. And what do I find? Bodies! That bastard has me moving bodies! Well I stripped them of their jewels and gold, so the joke's on him."

 

However, implementing a "Guild" with a quest line where there are known and named vampires within the Coven could be a nice addition longterm. (I have short term memory loss so if you covered this already I forgot! :))

 

Speaking of Skyrim Lore. There are a total of 13 books that mention vampires directly.

 

Catalogue of Weapon Enchantments

Cure Disease Potion Recipe

De Rerum Dirennis

Immortal Blood

Incident at Necrom

Mysterious Akavir

Notes on the Lunar Forge

Opusculus Lamae Bal

Remanada

Short History of Morrowind

The Locked Room

Treatise on Ayleidic Cities

Withershins

 

Oh wow...researching this for the thread (and I haven't read all the books yet) the Treatise on Ayleidic Cities does mention a city of "unliving abominations" which was caused by a vampire.

 

"will not be the first scholar to point to a combination of benign intent and arrogance on behalf of the Ayleids as the source of many ruinous affairs for the old heartland elves.

 

The Nefarivigum, a foul construct of Mehrunes Dagon, was erected to be ever watchful for the pilgrim who would approach it and best an unknown trial of worth. It is said that such a pilgrim would be rewarded with the blessing of Mehrunes Razor, a vicious blade through which Dagon himself can claim the very souls of those it strikes.

 

Benign intent compelled Ayleid folk to seek out the Nefarivigum. Arrogance let them believe themselves capable of disbarring any who would seek the Razor. So was built Varsa Baalim, a great, ringed, labyrinthine city, during the height of Ayleid rule.

 

Sure as death, pilgrims came to Varsa Baalim, and for years the Elves drove back many, until it came to pass that a vampire slipped into the city unnoticed. Merfolk were touched with the foul affliction, throwing the city into a gathering storm of madness and ruin, and soon it seemed none was left to prevent the Razor from being recovered.

 

Then, suddenly, Varsa Baalim was gone. Historic accounts dispute whether it happened through some final safety, a natural cataclysm, or by the touch of the Divines themselves. Whatever the cause, history agrees on the result: the mountains of the Eastern Niben swallowed Varsa Baalim, and the Nefarivigum with it, where has remained hidden since the early days of the First Era.

 

If the tale is true, then somewhere on the eastern fringes of the Niben Valley, where man's rule has scarcely reached through the years, the Nefarivigum still lies in wait, among a city of unliving abominations entombed within the cold bowels of the mountain."

[MofoMojo]

Just to share some of the more interesting excerpts from these books.

 

Immortal Blood exceprts:

• "He wanted to know about the vampires of eastern Skyrim. I told him about the most powerful tribe, the Volkihar, paranoid and cruel, whose very breath could freeze their victims' blood in the veins. I explained to him how they lived beneath the ice of remote and haunted lakes, never venturing into the world of men except to feed."
  
• "Your advice helped me very much," he said. "But you should know that the Volkihar have an additional ability you didn't mention. They can reach through the ice of their lakes without breaking it. It was quite a nasty surprise, being grabbed from below without any warning."
  
• "That is why I came to you," said Movarth. "You know more than anyone alive about these monsters, in all their cursed varieties across the land. Now you must tell me about the vampires of northern Valenwood."
  
• I did as he asked, and once again, his questions taxed my knowledge. There were many tribes to cover. The Bonsamu who were indistinguishable from Bosmer except when seen by candlelight. The Keerilth who could disintegrate into mist. The Yekef who swallowed men whole. The dread Telboth who preyed on children, eventually taking their place in the family, waiting patiently for years before murdering them all in their unnatural hunger."
  
• "You were wrong about the Keerilth being unable to vaporize when pushed underwater," he said, patting my shoulder fondly. "Fortunately, they cannot travel far in their mist form, and I was able to track it down."
  
• There was but one tribe in Cyrodiil, a powerful clan who had ousted all other competitors, much like the Imperials themselves had done. Their true name was unknown, lost in history, but they were experts at concealment. If they kept themselves well-fed, they were indistinguishable from living persons. They were cultured, more civilized than the vampires of the provinces, preferring to feed on victims while they were asleep, unaware.
  

 

Treatise on Ayleidic Cities

• Sure as death, pilgrims came to Varsa Baalim, and for years the Elves drove back many, until it came to pass that a vampire slipped into the city unnoticed. Merfolk were touched with the foul affliction, throwing the city into a gathering storm of madness and ruin, and soon it seemed none was left to prevent the Razor from being recovered.
  
• If the tale is true, then somewhere on the eastern fringes of the Niben Valley, where man's rule has scarcely reached through the years, the Nefarivigum still lies in wait, among a city of unliving abominations entombed within the cold bowels of the mountain.
  

 

The Locked Room

• "Perhaps I should mention that this is a test of speed. You see the crate behind you? It contains a vampire ancient who has been locked in here for many months. It is absolutely ravenous. In a few minutes' time, the sun will have completely set, and if you have not opened the door, you will be nothing but a bloodless husk."
  
• But there was no reply, only the sound of footfall disappearing down the corridor beyond the door. Arthcamu began to work harder on the lock, but his hands were shaking with fear. With no windows, it was impossible to tell how late it was getting to be. Were minutes that were flying by or hours? He only knew that the vampire ancient would know.
  
• The vampire ancient regarded the master locksmith with insane, hungry eyes, and flew at him in a frenzy. Before Arthcamu died, he saw it: on a chain that had been placed around the vampire's neck while it had been sleeping was a key.
  

 

Opusculus Lamae Bal ta Mezzamortie

• Tamriel was still young, and filled with danger and wondrous magick when Bal walked in the aspect of a man and took a virgin, Lamae Beolfag, from the Nedic Peoples. Savage and loveless, Bal profaned her body, and her screams became the Shrieking Winds, which still haunt certain winding fjords of Skyrim. Shedding a lone droplet of blood on her brow, Bal left Nirn, having sown his wrath.
  
• And so; Lamae, (who is known to us as blood-matron) imprecated her foul aspect upon the folk of Tamriel, and begat a brood of countless abominations, from which came the vampires, most cunning of the night-horrors. And so was the scourge of undeath wrought upon Tamriel, cruelly mocking Arkay's rhythm of life and death through all the coming eras of the et'Ada, and for all his sadness, Arkay knew this could not be undone.
  

 

Incident in Necrom

• "Vampires are filthy creatures," said Nitrah. "Disease-ridden, you know. They say off to the west, they'll indiscriminately pass on their curse together with a number of other afflictions. They don't do that here so much, but still you don't want to leave their wounds untreated. I take it you know something of the spells of Restoration if one of us gets bit?"
  
• A red-haired vampire woman leapt out of the shadows in front of them, knocking Phlaxith on his back. Nitrah quickly unsheathed her sword, but Massitha was faster. With a wave of her hand, the creature stopped, frozen, her jaws scant inches from Phlaxith's throat. Phlaxith pulled out his own blade and finished her off.
  
• The four climbed up over the paths to the front gateway to the crypt. Osmic snapped the lock and disassembled the poison trap. The sorceress cast a wave of light down the dust-choked corridors, banishing the shadows and drawing the inhabitants out. Almost immediately they were set on by a pair of vampires, howling and screaming in a frenzy of bloodlust.
  
• "Quarra, the most savage of the vampire bloodlines," said Phlaxith. "We have to find and exterminate each and every one."
  
• The vampire knocked Massitha across a stone, its claws raking across her back, but stopped its assault in order to block a blow from Phlaxith's sword. It accomplished this maneuver in its own brutal way, by tearing the warrior's arm from its socket.
  

 

DE RERUM DIRENNIS

• One of the tales told of him that I believe to be true is how he was brought a young niece who had been suffering from an unknown disease. Despite his ministrations, she grew weaker and weaker every morning. Finally, he gave her a bitter tasting drink, and the next morning, ashes were found all around her bed. A vampire had been feeding on the poor girl, but Asliel's potion had turned her very blood into poison, without harming her in the least.
  

 

-MM

[Jakisthe]

Oh wow. So...there could indeed be a city! Hmm. I wonder if that's possible to work into my idea, or if they'd straight up have a new city to work with...it seems that Varsa Baalim at one point existed, but it's not in Skyrim...pretty south in Cyrodiil, in fact...

That could be it! The vampires are fighting to gain control of a city they seek to turn into New Varsa, and the werewolves are opposing them because of the power the vampires would gain! A map of Varsa Baalim, which I suppose could eventually serve as the framework for the construction of our eventual New Varsa

http://images.uesp.net/thumb/3/36/OB-map-Varsa_Baalim.jpg/476px-OB-map-Varsa_Baalim.jpg

 

Other ascertained attributes of note from those excerpts:

-Freeze breath of some kind? At least to one particular group

-They can swim

-The oldest ones "ancient" are apparently either extremely susceptible to sunlight, or the one in the locked room just preferred to sleep (?)

-Descended, in at least one bloodline, from Molag Bal

-At least one (Lamae) of the Bal bloodline was immune to fire. She was the first though, so it's hard to say if that power would be diulted or not, but considering the current vampiric weakness, I'd say yes.

-Vampires are sensitive to magelight as well, according to Necrom

-There exists a poison with which to "booby trap" humans from feeding. Possible lore explanation of why certain essential NPCs can't be turned? Could be part of the Clad questline?

-Vampires have claws to some extent

-There are names to the clans/species, those being: Volkihar, Tolboth, Yekef, Keerilth, Quarra, Bonsamu, and one nameless tribe that existed in Cyrodiil. Presumably, not all of these types are to be found in Skyrim, but still.

 

 

Also, there is a very unique vampiric blade of some kind...the effect of which will undoubtedly prove useful when being applied to other things dealing with this turnaround.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Jakisthe

[MofoMojo]

Jakisthe,

 

Check out my post on the other vampire topic....here. /shameless plug.

 

I've got breathing underwater implemented in my vampires right now. But yep, I've implemented some design changes to my ideas after reading through some of the lore in the Skyrim books. Think I might look at the Oblivion and Morrowind books to harvest some other ideas. I don't mind, and WANT TO, have my own personal lore added to the vampires, but I CERTAINLY want to make sure that it's lore friendly with Skyrim as well.

 

-MM

[Darksun45230]

I was always of the theory that Vampires and Werewolves were competitors for the same meal. Both are distinct contrasts of the natural order: one being undead and as far removed from humanity as possible, the other being nature harvested into a singular powerhouse. One works against the nature order, while the other works against the nature of man. Perhaps this mod has the potential to free itself from the muck and mire of the derivative by exploring these two distinctions.

[Jakisthe]

Yeah, MM, I saw that. My thoughts:

 

-Attack on Sight: For the most part, I agree, but I still think the really powerful ones should be very much disliked and attacked on sight for being, well, vampires. My idea of face covering preventing this offers a way out, I think.

 

-Skill: This seems the most drastic of your proposed ideas. I'm not sure how I feel about it...on the one hand, it does consolidate vampirism, but on the other is based advancement on doing any-old experience gaining activities. Which can be fine, but for vampirism, seems the best choice for advancement is...well, acting vampiric, no? Giving in, as it were?

 

-As a level: Odd. So not so much stages? I think you'd need to clarify this...

 

-Garlic/Silver/Sunlight: I like it, of course. Only thing that seems odd is that sunlight makes them essentially a weaker human. Now, I'm very down for it draining/impeding regen, but taking away all statistical bonuses? That seems rather drastic..I mean, what if a vampire is in cloud cover, it clears up, and he starts to take damage while also becoming encumbered thanks to his loss of added carry and inability to use potions? I think the fickleness of weather makes it a dangerous option to introduce.

 

-Fire: Like. Also, extremely nice idea about the true death, but I question if people will use it or just revert to old/recent saves.

 

-Water: I think that we could consolidate these ideas. On the one hand, they instantly sink and have no breath limit, as seems to be the case in the lore. On the other, they can walk across the surface of the water provided they have some grave dirt...but that's where it gets tricky. I had a few ideas for the implementation of "grave dirt", but since the game doesn't keep track (iirc) of where you contracted the disease, and it never really causes you to wind up in a coffin...

Actually, if we were really ambitious, that could be an interesting idea for a start. The player get the disease, people say talk to an alchemist, the terrified alchemist immediately directs you to a divines temple...where you pass out, and a priest is tries to kill you by packing you in a coffin (one marked as belonging to Mircalla/o Ruthven :happy: ) and shipping it out to sea..but it's botched and you wake up in the coffin, floating waaaaaay up north, surrounded by dirt and garlic...Take some dirt, and it can water walk! Or store it. Later, the coffin would wash up on the coast, I suppose.

 

-Hunger: I like it, but again, like the leveling thing, you'd need to flesh it out more for my very tired brain. As it stands though, I do very much like the idea of some kind of "Hunger Rage"...but they must also be growing weaker. What about if they simply couldn't regenerate health at all unless they feed, and for every day they feed they get +10 to all attack skills and -10 to all defensive skills? Random ideas.

 

-Werewolf weakness: Yep. 100%

 

Everything else looks great, although, speechcraft. I still think (and recall the REALLY old lore saying this) that old vampires were in fact hideous. Hence, makes sense that they start out all suave, too much for a human...but they grow more and more monstrous. Also, the wolf thing. That's complicated...

 

 

 

 

 

Darksun, the end goal waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down the line was in fact to have a war between vampires who want to be civilized and use an out of the way, all mod made city to create a new, clandestine vampire capital in the same image as Varsa Baalim...and werewolves who see the city as not only a great way to lure vampires to their deaths and therefore weed out competitors, but utilize the border city as a very large and very central source of controlled food. I have similar ideas for werewolves, but I'll not steal the thunder of CoH:BmR.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Jakisthe