[WIP] Belua Sanguinare Revisited

[phil11]

AWESOME! Great work so far, this really has a lot of promise! I just want to thank you for how much time and effort you've already put in, it's very apparent you're very good at what you do.

 

It looks easier than I originally imagined getting the Attack for Blood off in time. I like this, it's nicely done. Eventually if there could be a third person animation for that, it really would be incredible. Same thing goes for Bite. Seeing a vampire grab a person from behind and go for their jugular would be very rewarding. In fact, if it's alright with you and Jakisthe, I'm going to go ahead and ask some people on the Nexus with animation experience if they could help out with this. (I won't do anything until I get explicit permission though) After all, you've done all the internal mechanics of scripting/modding, now you just need to dress up some of the awesome abilities you've created for a more immersive experience.

 

The Blink spell looks pretty cool, but the second time when you casted it to the rooftop it looked like it automatically teleported you back or something. Darken looks good, too. I like the black cloud aura thing you got going on.

 

And I gotta laugh at how powerful Blood Rend is; however, you're a mage with tons of magicka, right? So for a warrior or thief type it wouldn't last nearly as long I'm assuming. Instead, they'd be able to use Vampire Speed for much longer via a large stamina reserve. Anyway, I think Blood Rend should be scaled back a bit, but it would also be nice if it did like 1/2 damage or something (or used twice as much mana) once your health is full. To this end, what do you think about eventually adding a visual effect on NPCs (when your health isn't full and you're using Blood Rend at full potential) where enemies are temporarily immobilized, their heads thrown back, arms cast down to their sides, and you can see all the blood vessels in their body rise to the surface of their skin. Sort of like this, (I couldn't find a very good picture to illustrate the idea):

 

 

http://i52.tinypic.com/2zo9ekk.jpg

 

Of course you wouldn't see the underlying musculature the way you do here, but you'd see blood vessels protrude significantly all over the victim's body. As their health is depleting, the effect gradually would fade as if you've drained all their blood, and then you could make an effect where they look way paler.

 

That's probably a bit overboard since it sounds like it'd be very difficult to do, but I can't restrain my enthusiasm for this mod.

Edited March 6, 2012 by phil11

[MofoMojo]

AWESOME! Great work so far, this really has a lot of promise! I just want to thank you for how much time and effort you've already put in, it's very apparent you're very good at what you do.

It looks easier than I originally imagined getting the Attack for Blood off in time. I like this, it's nicely done. Eventually if there could be a third person animation for that, it really would be incredible. Same thing goes for Bite. Seeing a vampire grab a person from behind and go for their jugular would be very rewarding. In fact, if it's alright with you and Jakisthe, I'm going to go ahead and ask some people on the Nexus with animation experience if they could help out with this. (I won't do anything until I get explicit permission though) After all, you've done all the internal mechanics of scripting/modding, now you just need to dress up some of the awesome abilities you've created for a more immersive experience.

 

Thanks Phil11, I'd love to get some. The feed attack is hardwired to look for your victim sitting in furniture or laying in a bed and sense niether are found you get just a standing there for 2 seconds kind of feel. even a generic standing over the person with their head bent inward kind of thing would work when standing, and I think the regular animation would work find for when they're bleeding out. I'll try and figre out how to get that to fire.

 

The Blink spell looks pretty cool, but the second time when you casted it to the rooftop it looked like it automatically teleported you back or something. Darken looks good, too. I like the black cloud aura thing you got going on.

 

Hahaha, yeah that's just bad editing. I got up to the roof, shot with an arrow, turned around, slide town and hopped off and then ran back up around the back of the house and accidentally cast blink again. I edited all that out, and not a good job of it.

 

And I gotta laugh at how powerful Blood Rend is; however, you're a mage with tons of magicka, right? So for a warrior or thief type it wouldn't last nearly as long I'm assuming. Instead, they'd be able to use Vampire Speed for much longer via a large stamina reserve. Anyway, I think Blood Rend should be scaled back a bit, but it would also be nice if it did like 1/2 damage or something (or used twice as much mana) once your health is full.

 

Taking a back seat and watching the video a few times is a lot different than playing the game. You are absolutely correct, Figthers will play their role quite a bit differently than mage. I got two thoughts from playing it out and watching it again. Blood Rend as too long of a reach. I don't want it to be a spell you can just kite people in a line to you and die. To that effect I have some changes in mind:

 

Lower the radius from 20 feet to 10.

Blood Rend can ONLY be used when you have less than full health. As soon as you have full health it stops.

 

With those two changes, it makes it want I intended it to be. A quick way to heal yourself, a decent AOE and secondary attack.

Ideally I'm going to figure out how to get blood drops to form

 

To this end, what do you think about eventually adding a visual effect on NPCs (when your health isn't full and you're using Blood Rend at full potential) where enemies are temporarily immobilized, their heads thrown back, arms cast down to their sides, and you can see all the blood vessels in their body rise to the surface of their skin. Sort of like this, (I couldn't find a very good picture to illustrate the idea):

 

 

http://i52.tinypic.com/2zo9ekk.jpg

 

Of course you wouldn't see the underlying musculature the way you do here, but you'd see blood vessels protrude significantly all over the victim's body. As their health is depleting, the effect gradually would fade as if you've drained all their blood, and then you could make an effect where they look way paler.

 

That's probably a bit overboard since it sounds like it'd be very difficult to do, but I can't restrain my enthusiasm for this mod.

 

Actually we can create shaders which are applied to the membrane skin ONLY of an Actor, so with the right shaders we could probably do just that. What I want (and for some reason am struggling) is to figure out how to get blood decals strewn about at their feet on their clothes, etc,. when they get hit with the effect.

 

-MM

[MofoMojo]

@MM

Wow, that is awesome.

Are we ever going to create animations for feeding? I have no modding knowledge or I would volunteer.

I have seen custom animations for other mods, so I wonder how difficult they are to program?

 

I think we will at some point. Sounds like PHill11 may be on the hunt to try and find some. There's a mod available that extends the nunmber of idle animations but as it stands no combat animations. Does that mean that we can't have feeding during combat? I don't know. It's not necessarily a combat mechanic so.... The game's Feed Animation is coded to look for the victim to be in a chair. I'm goit to investigate whether we can do an OR clause on that and have them bleeding out since I think the bleed out kneel will mesh well with the feeding animation.

 

Well, good job!

I get a bit boggled trying to remember all planned features.

What exactly is left on your list? If it is not too much trouble to ask.

EDIT: Nvm bout the animations. just got done looking at this and it seems like animations are not supported by the CK

 

Actually those are just combat animations that can't be done.

 

We're about 85% done, with an alpha. It has a lot of spit and polishing needed. Some placeholder art is used and in some places nothing at all (darken when casting for instance). So from game mechanics, 85% is done. I can't say how much is done outside of that. The video taught me some things (see my reply to Phil's post).

 

I have second video (actually it was the first half of that video) which demonstrated the levelling and some of the passive effects. I ditched it. I'll try to get a better video together to demonstrate levitation, slow fall, impact of brigthness and damage in sunlight, garlic, sensing garlic, and conuring foggy weather. I hope I'll get that redone tonight.

 

-MM

[FranzLiszt]

Actually those are just combat animations that can't be done.

 

We're about 85% done, with an alpha. It has a lot of spit and polishing needed. Some placeholder art is used and in some places nothing at all (darken when casting for instance). So from game mechanics, 85% is done. I can't say how much is done outside of that. The video taught me some things (see my reply to Phil's post).

 

I have second video (actually it was the first half of that video) which demonstrated the levelling and some of the passive effects. I ditched it. I'll try to get a better video together to demonstrate levitation, slow fall, impact of brigthness and damage in sunlight, garlic, sensing garlic, and conuring foggy weather. I hope I'll get that redone tonight.

 

-MM

 

Oh, I thought that it was all animations. This is a great mod so far. And Wow, 85% done? Great!

Got To go

[MofoMojo]

Actually those are just combat animations that can't be done.

 

We're about 85% done, with an alpha. It has a lot of spit and polishing needed. Some placeholder art is used and in some places nothing at all (darken when casting for instance). So from game mechanics, 85% is done. I can't say how much is done outside of that. The video taught me some things (see my reply to Phil's post).

 

I have second video (actually it was the first half of that video) which demonstrated the levelling and some of the passive effects. I ditched it. I'll try to get a better video together to demonstrate levitation, slow fall, impact of brigthness and damage in sunlight, garlic, sensing garlic, and conuring foggy weather. I hope I'll get that redone tonight.

 

-MM

 

Oh, I thought that it was all animations. This is a great mod so far. And Wow, 85% done? Great!

Got To go

 

New Darken Effect, stolen from Shadow Armor, and prototyping the vein effect for blood rend. Takes a bit too long to kick in and fades out instantly....And as a Mage, I'm way to strong with a weapon....There definitely needs to be some tuning here.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAXqsE9arN8

 

Watch their arms after the Blood Rend takes effect...

 

-MM

[Jakisthe]

Look's FANTASTIC! And, even better, with much of my work done (thank god), I can do some real hardcore beta-ing and notes! What does that mean? BETA SOON!

 

Animations are...down the line. Actually, animations/modeling are something I myself am good at (finally, a useful technical skill!) so that may be a chance to do it..."in-house", but of course I wouldn't say no to help. Phill, PM me about what you were thinking. However, and I'm sure this goes without saying, but animations are an aside to the gameplay and balance.

 

I swear, the "watch" button is broken...I set it so that whenever anyone replies to this thread, it send me an email which automatically gets filed in my account, and I know that I need to come check the thread. At least, in theory...doesn't seem to be working. Which only made my absences worse! Blarg.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Jakisthe

[phil11]

@MM

That is awesome looking. Holy hell I can't wait for this mod. You know, you never cease to impress. I'll think something is going to be nearly impossible to implement, and then you'll tell me you can do it rather easily and that you're already working on it. YOU are awesome.

 

Do you think Blood Rend might still be a little overpowered, since you'd be able to (nearly) continuously heal yourself if you have a decent amount of mana? It seems like you'd be near invincible, at least against anything with blood. Speaking of which, do you plan to have it only work on living creatures? So Draugrs, since they're undead and have no blood, would be unaffected, right?

 

edit: I watched that last video a few times and you had like 30% of your mana left and you'd killed two people, mostly using Blood Rend. If you weren't able to regen that mana extremely fast, I would say it isn't OP. I forgot to ask.. At what Vampire rank are you going to earn Blood Rend? What do you think about limiting the number of total victims, so that within 20 feet or 10 feet or whatever, it could only affect 5 people at Sire level (just guessing on the figures here), and less for lower ranks?

 

@Jakisthe

You're good with animation!? F*** Yeah! I don't think I can stop saying AWESOME. I'm pumped for this mod.

 

While gameplay and balance obviously come first and foremost, I'm always interested in getting a more immersive experience, if at all possible. Animating some of the features in this mod would put already outstanding ideas and mechanics beyond any equivalent. I can already foresee this mod being in the top 10 on the Nexus with 5000+ Endorsements.

 

@MM & Jakisthe

I went ahead and sent out 11 messages to people on the Nexus with animation experience to see if they'd be interesting in helping to develop, at least for now, the animations for Bite and Attack for Blood. (MM, I know you already mentioned that Attack for Blood wouldn't be as difficult to animate since staggered/kneeling NPCs are at a very similar height to sleeping NPCs on beds, i.e. when using the vanilla feeding animation). I linked them here and also to the other 'official' thread, and I also told them to contact you guys directly if they were interested. Hopefully, if nothing else, my messaging them will increase this mod's exposure on the Nexus, since I also politely asked them to spread the word about this mod, particularly to other interested 'animators'. They might be able to, at the very least, lend advice and some of their animation knowledge when the time comes.

Edited March 7, 2012 by phil11

[xp32]

Thx to phil11 who send message so I could directed to this thread.

 

Btw I want to ask something, about animation "attack for blood". Does the action "attack FB" has already trigger some animation (e.g vanilla animation) or instead display some animation it was just stand idle. If the first one that happen, it will be easy to have animation for it but if the second is happening it'll be quite complex but still possible to show the desired animation.

[phil11]

Thx to phil11 who send message so I could directed to this thread.

 

Btw I want to ask something, about animation "attack for blood". Does the action "attack FB" has already trigger some animation (e.g vanilla animation) or instead display some animation it was just stand idle. If the first one that happen, it will be easy to have animation for it but if the second is happening it'll be quite complex but still possible to show the desired animation.

http://forums.nexusm...ost__p__4793801

 

Watch the teaser video on page 24, linked above, and you'll see it. There is no animation for it right now. You choose 'feed' on an NPC once they are staggered and kneeling, and it kills them.

Edited March 7, 2012 by phil11

[MofoMojo]

@MM

That is awesome looking. Holy hell I can't wait for this mod. You know, you never cease to impress. I'll think something is going to be nearly impossible to implement, and then you'll tell me you can do it rather easily and that you're already working on it. YOU are awesome.

 

Do you think Blood Rend might still be a little overpowered, since you'd be able to (nearly) continuously heal yourself if you have a decent amount of mana? It seems like you'd be near invincible, at least against anything with blood. Speaking of which, do you plan to have it only work on living creatures? So Draugrs, since they're undead and have no blood, would be unaffected, right?

 

edit: I watched that last video a few times and you had like 30% of your mana left and you'd killed two people, mostly using Blood Rend. If you weren't able to regen that mana extremely fast, I would say it isn't OP. I forgot to ask.. At what Vampire rank are you going to earn Blood Rend? What do you think about limiting the number of total victims, so that within 20 feet or 10 feet or whatever, it could only affect 5 people at Sire level (just guessing on the figures here), and less for lower ranks?

 

Thanks Phil! So, I DO think it's overpowered right now. Granted, I'm a mage and have, I think, around 450 magicka. Warriors obviously won't be able to use Blood Rend for as long as a mage. I have a few thoughts I'm entertaining.

 

• 
   
  
• Disable the effect if you're at full health
  
• Cut the damage down if you're at full health
  
• Cut the damage down entirely
  
• Cut the distance down
  

 

Since it seems we'll be taking the approach of making Restoration a little less useful for Vampires, and potentially potions, then we certainly need a way to heal and right now there's two primary spells for that. Darken and Blood Rend. Darken is more for the Melee'r and Blood Rend for the Mage. Of course, Darken requires you get into the thick of things but it's a lot less effective than the AOE that Blood Rend gives you. So I don't want the Mage to be melee'ing to have to heal themselves but I still need to reduce the effectiveness of Blood Rend. Unfortunately I can't keep track of how many targets I'm hitting....ok, that's a lie, I can but I'm afraid of "thread safety" issues with multiple targets updating Global Variables that might track that and the potential performance impact. It might be unfounded worry. So here's my thoughts in more detail and please feel free to let me know what you think of these.

 

Disable the effect if you're at full health

Blood Rend was supposed to be a secondary offensive spell that helped heal, not satiate the Vampire. Once you're at full health if there's nothing else to heal and so should you still be able to "absorb" anything if you're at full health. Disabling the absorb effect would fix this, but then I'm worried about the feedback to the user. Obviously if I disable the visual effects, they'll have the feedback that it's not working but is that enough?

 

Cut the damage down if you're at full health

Similar to the above, it was intended to be a secondary spell, not something meant as a primary offensive spell. Once you've healed yourself, perhaps it shouldn't be as effective rather that just disable it altogether.

 

Cut the damage down entirely

I just checked my damage magnitude and haha, it's much higher than it was supposed to be. It's currently set to a static constant of 20 which is WAY too high to apply per target. HOLY COW. I have a scaling formula I worked out that I had applied to Darken and should apply to Blood Rend as well. It seems to work well for Darken. Here's the formula (I think I discussed this a few pages back). Remember, this would be PER target as opposed to a flat level. I really want to start scaling damage with the magic based offensive spells.

 

;Damage Calculation is (Vampire Level /10) * (PlayerLevel/2)
;DMG CHART	Fledgling	Risen	Master	Progenitor	Sire
;Lvl		1		2	3	4		5
;1		0.05		0.1	0.15	0.2		0.25
;5		0.25		0.5	0.75	1		1.25
;10		0.5		1	1.5	2		2.5
;15		0.75		1.5	2.25	3		3.75
;20		1		2	3	4		5
;25		1.25		2.5	3.75	5		6.25
;30		1.5		3	4.5	6		7.5
;35		1.75		3.5	5.25	7		8.75
;40		2		4	6	8		10
;45		2.25		4.5	6.75	9		11.25
;50		2.5		5	7.5	10		12.5
;55		2.75		5.5	8.25	11		13.75
;60		3		6	9	12		15
;65		3.25		6.5	9.75	13		16.25
;70		3.5		7	10.5	14		17.5

 

Cut the distance down

The vampire shouldn't be able to stay a safe 20 feet back and still absorb health. I think that's too far away from the action so this will be tweaked down to 10 feet. This will automatically reduce the effectiveness in large groups since there's a LOT of actors that can fit in a 20 foot radius but fewer in a 10 foot.

 

Edit:

To answer your question Blood Rend does not work against Undead, Atronarchs, mechanicals things, etc,. Same as Darken.

 

@MM & Jakisthe

I went ahead and sent out 11 messages to people on the Nexus with animation experience to see if they'd be interesting in helping to develop, at least for now, the animations for Bite and Attack for Blood. (MM, I know you already mentioned that Attack for Blood wouldn't be as difficult to animate since staggered/kneeling NPCs are at a very similar height to sleeping NPCs on beds, i.e. when using the vanilla feeding animation). I linked them here and also to the other 'official' thread, and I also told them to contact you guys directly if they were interested. Hopefully, if nothing else, my messaging them will increase this mod's exposure on the Nexus, since I also politely asked them to spread the word about this mod, particularly to other interested 'animators'. They might be able to, at the very least, lend advice and some of their animation knowledge when the time comes.

 

Sweet! Thanks!

 

-MM

Edited March 7, 2012 by MofoMojo