[WIP] Belua Sanguinare Revisited

[nskin039]

I'm fine with that. I was just stating my opinion from watching the teaser videos for this mod. I am just trying to help by making some suggestions. I am totally fine if you all disagree with them :)

[Jakisthe]

Sorry I've been so unresponsive over this...I had to get from New York to Houston to Chicago to Boston in these past few days... :wacko:

 

Anyway! Looks like we're doing better than ever. I think we finally got a good idea of balance for starving, without it being toooo punishing..and the AoS being configurable will help dial it down for some people.

 

nSkin, I'm gunna have to agree with Darksun on this one. That spell looks to be incredibly overpowered, even if you can't attack during it. You'll be able to do similar things with the time slow we have implemented, but we're trying to balance it. Also of consideration is the fact that we want to cut down on simply having spells to have spells...a lot of mods toss a bunch of spells at the player just because, but we want more than that.

[MofoMojo]

I'm fine with that. I was just stating my opinion from watching the teaser videos for this mod. I am just trying to help by making some suggestions. I am totally fine if you all disagree with them :)

 

Nskin039,

 

We really appreciate your input, keep it coming and I hope you're on the beta, if not let us know and we'll get you in. I know you like your vampires to be very strong, so there will be some things you might not like but any constructive input you can offer is more than nothing! Thanks for all your input as of late!

 

@All

 

So, I've removed the exact satiation details out of the Journal. It no longer shows something like, "Satiation: 68/100". It just says "I am Satiated", or "I am Hungry", or "I am starving", etc,. you get the idea. I've had to implement about.... 30 perks and spells to handle the hunger mechanics. I need to implement another 50 spells/magic effects so that we can provide hunger effect feedback in the "Active Effects" list, otherwise you might not know what's going on at each level of hunger.

 

Just to give a very basic idea of what's currently implemented at each stage of hunger. There are varying levels of magnitude for each level:

 

• 
   
  
• Sun Damage increases as you get hungrier
  
• Critical Chance increases as you get hungrier
  
• Sprint Speed inreases as you get hungrier
  
• Incoming Physical Damage increases as you get hungrier
  
• Incoming Flame based Damage increases as you get hungrier
  
• Stamina Regeneration rates increases as you get hungrier
  
• 1&2Handed damage increases as you get hungrier (should add in unarmed)
  

 

The general idea here is that as you get hungrier there's more emphasis on you ability to move faster (frenzied) and deal out more damage because of your lust for blood. Because of this, you're more likely to be vulnerable to melee attacks, even less able to withstand the power of the sun and flames and of course, depending on your vampire stage you'll go into Attack On Sight at certain stages.

 

I'm thinking of removing the Sire's ability to turn into mist when you're considered to be starving. Any thoughts on that?

 

Finally, Jakisthe and I have had some conversations on this, but curious what some consensus might be for the masking ability, currently called "Sumo Mortalis Forma". This lesser power is what allows you to conceal your identity and it costs a specific number of magicka to use. Here's the thing.... I want most everyone to have an equal chance of using the power so I've thought of tying it to both magicka and stamina. The way it would work is this. If your BASE magicka is lower than your BASE stamina, drain magicka first, and when that gets to 0, then start draining stamina. The challenge to draining one and then the other, is that it provides a measure of time where the previous stat can regenerate and I want to avoid allowing Masters, Progenitors, and Sires the ability to use the power indefinitely.

 

Additionally, I'm thinking of disabling certain abilities if the power is up. For instance, no sprint enhancements, no mist form. The purpose of the spell is to conceal your identity. Running at 2.5 times your normal speed and turning into mist are a little revealing of your nature so if you intend to hide your identity, perhaps those types of abilities should be dormant during its use. Thoughts on that?

 

-MM

[MofoMojo]

Status Update

One last thing I'm very excited about that will be in the beta. Today I worked out proximity based shrine damage without having to modify any of the existing world content. I wish I was in a position to give you a video, but that will have to come later.

 

As your approach a shrine within about 25 feet your screen will start to get brighter and you'll start taking damage. As you get closer, the brightness increases and you take more and more damage until you're within about 1 foot of the shrine and you're almost completely blinded (even outside at night) and you're taking even more damage. I need to implement some scaling damage based on Vampire Level, but that's cake now that my POC is working.

 

The intensity and the damage amount is based purely mathematically on the distance between you and the shrine. I'm very excited with this because it's been troubling that I had not been able to get it to work. Currently it's working for the following types of shrines:

 

• 
   
  
• Akatosh
  
• Arkay
  
• Dibella
  
• Julianos
  
• Kynareth
  
• Mara
  
• Stendarr
  
• Talos
  
• Zenithar
  

 

I did not include Nocturnal because she's a daedra. Is there anyone else that you think should be in that list? If so, please let me know and I'll add it.

 

-MM

[elricshan]

as for the daedra shrines giving damage that would be great (as long as it the daedra is the one that oposess the daedra that created vampirism, but the other daedras should not care...) but hard doing the daedra quest.

[chow404]

This is skryim so having a power to turn into mist or icreasing your speed doesn't seem entirely unrealistic. To take that away when trying to appear mortal seems unnecessary.

[nskin039]

I'm thinking of removing the Sire's ability to turn into mist when you're considered to be starving. Any thoughts on that?

 

Finally, Jakisthe and I have had some conversations on this, but curious what some consensus might be for the masking ability, currently called "Sumo Mortalis Forma". This lesser power is what allows you to conceal your identity and it costs a specific number of magicka to use. Here's the thing.... I want most everyone to have an equal chance of using the power so I've thought of tying it to both magicka and stamina. The way it would work is this. If your BASE magicka is lower than your BASE stamina, drain magicka first, and when that gets to 0, then start draining stamina. The challenge to draining one and then the other, is that it provides a measure of time where the previous stat can regenerate and I want to avoid allowing Masters, Progenitors, and Sires the ability to use the power indefinitely.

 

Additionally, I'm thinking of disabling certain abilities if the power is up. For instance, no sprint enhancements, no mist form. The purpose of the spell is to conceal your identity. Running at 2.5 times your normal speed and turning into mist are a little revealing of your nature so if you intend to hide your identity, perhaps those types of abilities should be dormant during its use. Thoughts on that?

 

-MM

 

"I'm thinking of removing the Sire's ability to turn into mist when you're considered to be starving" Sounds good to me.

 

For "Sumo Mortalis Forma" definitely a lesser power and I agree that most abilities should be removed. However, personally I think your vampire strength (additional carry weight) should remain in effect. I can just see that as getting super annoying if when you equip the Forma spell you carry weight drops and now you are over encumbered.

Speed I am indifferent about. I am fine with keeping it or removing it, people can always think you are just a faster runner. There are marathon and sprint runners today who are way faster than everyone else. But things like mist power, bat transformation, feeding (really most of your vampire powers) should be disabled.

 

As far as tying it to magicka or stamina, is it possible to do a check and just base it upon whatever stat is higher? If your character has higher magicka then drain magika, if your character has higher stamina drain stamina, or if magicka and stamina are equal drain magicka (or stamina). I'd rather it not drain both. I personally would also like to see the amount drained as a configurable value. For me I'd rather play where the Forma costs zero, BUT I am always AOS. Therefore I want to hide by using the mask. However, if I want to feed or use my full powers I have to shed my human illusion for a time.

Edited March 28, 2012 by nskin039

[nskin039]

Nskin039,

 

We really appreciate your input, keep it coming and I hope you're on the beta, if not let us know and we'll get you in. I know you like your vampires to be very strong, so there will be some things you might not like but any constructive input you can offer is more than nothing! Thanks for all your input as of late!

 

 

-MM

 

Happy to help. Here is my situation. I finish my school semester next weekend. So until then I don't have a lot of testing time. So if you don't mind waiting for me to test till then, I will be happy to help, and you can sign me up for a beta spot. I am also planning to res-install the game. I have so many mods installed I want to make a fresh install regardless of whether I am in the beta or not.

[Jakisthe]

Taking away mist form is a good idea, but then it got me thinking...what do people think when you turn into mist without AoS or the mask on? Lol...probably overthinking that one. There can't always be plans for every possible scenario, I fear :whistling:

 

Other than that, I don't know how many abilities should be taken away. I'm apt to say none; the vampire is already pretty weak as it, and even iff they are starving, don't wanna make it flat out unfair. However, what about implementing a cooldown? That way, they'd have to wait a bit between uses of Forma? I mean, a lot of the vampire powers are just that, powers, to begin with, and they mechanically fill the same slot on the UI...so the players has to take off forma to use a lot of them anyway. But I don't want it such that they just take off forma, cast whatever, and flip Forma back on...that just seems like it would be a hassle. With a cooldown, it seems like a tactical choice to me; when to have it up or not.

 

What does everyone else think of that idea?

 

 

Another part of me, while very happy that the shrine damage thing is working (and I fear loading up my character who, iirc, was parked in the locus of the solitude church :ohdear: ), but I really do worry if we're attatching too many negatives..MM has only been able to really progress by effectively duping the system and constantly feeding on a follower. I keep cheating myself, mostly to check for discrepancies and bugs, but for actual play...dunno how I feel about that... :unsure:

 

 

Hi Chow! Welcome to the thread. About your comment though...I wouldn't count speed or mist out. We really have no idea the limits of either the magic in skyrim or the talents of their vampires, as both of those have documented instances already beyond what the player can do. Still, mist and speed are classic vampire powers, and this mod is about gameplay improvements AND lore so...we're bending it a bit :thumbsup:

 

@nskin: Yes, I remember that you had explained the school situation for me; technically you're on the [maybe] list of all people to be participating in the beta. What will likely happen is that the beta will come out sooner than next weekend...but it likely won't be over before it. So you can still participate in it, but maybe not as soon as it goes out. How does that sound?

Edited March 28, 2012 by Jakisthe

[nskin039]

 

With a cooldown, it seems like a tactical choice to me; when to have it up or not.

What does everyone else think of that idea?

 

@nskin: Yes, I remember that you had explained the school situation for me; technically you're on the [maybe] list of all people to be participating in the beta. What will likely happen is that the beta will come out sooner than next weekend...but it likely won't be over before it. So you can still participate in it, but maybe not as soon as it goes out. How does that sound?

 

Cooldown idea: As long as you don't mean power (once a day). If it works like a shout where you wait so many seconds I am fine with that. But if you go to all that trouble I'd rather it not drain magika or stamina. Once it is toggeled off you have to wait X number of seconds before using it again. But when it is up it can stay up until disabled.

 

Disabling Powers: I personally feel that some of the powers should be removed when using Forma. At least feeding for starters.

 

 

As far as testing, that is fine I should be ready to go by Sunday the 8th or by Monday the 9th at the latest. Depends on how long it takes me to reinstall the game.

Edited March 29, 2012 by nskin039