Jakisthe Posted April 1, 2012 Author Share Posted April 1, 2012 Just want to poke in again here and say great work. It seems I arrived at a nice time in this thread because I'm seeing a lot of updates, then again maybe it's been like this all 50 pages. I'm a big fan of vampires ever since I was a kid so I just want to know a few things about 1 negative aspect of being a sire and that is the attack on sight. In a way I can understand this for balance purposes but in another it seems weird. I mean in some stories even the most powerful of vampires maintain their human looks but in others their are physical changes. The Nosferatu in Vampire the Masquerade(RPG book game I played) comes to mind. So I can sort of understand that at the Sire level your body is corrupted more. As in your more vampire than human and that can be noticed but I feel that if your not 100% pure vampire(as in if your not a born vampire) that your physical appearance shouldn't have an effect to cause a full out attack on sight. Well, at no level is the vampire automatically AoS. What we managed to do was combine a hunger system with the AoS system, with stricter limits as the vampire goes up in levels. So, as a very new vampire, it's possible to be attacked on sight, but you'd need to be completely starving for it to trigger. On the other hand, if you're a Sire, then you get AoS'd quite a good deal sooner (but hopefully not annoyingly so). There should be a chart explaining it in these past few pages...I really need to update my original post :ermm: I just feel like I will be casting Enthrall over and over again and it would feel more repetitive than anything. To have a new spell that is say toggle-able like someone mentioned before would be nice. Perhaps restrict what we can do, or add negatives to it, when that spell is on to avoid it being overpowered/constantly being up. Yep! That's something we're trying to balance out, a process which will undoubtedly be expedited as we put out the beta. We've been tossing a few ideas around, like disabling spells, and remember, it does cost magica to maintain. Also how is death handled? When you die do you resurrect in a few hrs and have to feed within a certain time or when you die you die. It would be pretty cool to resurrect if you didn't die from silver, from fire, from being beheaded or dying in the sunlight but that might be overpowering. Thoughts? Thoughts? Very cool. That said, I don't know how feasible it is, both from a programming standpoint or a gameplay one. Most people, I would assume, would just load up a save as soon as they die, kinda like how people save scum to avoid crimes. Still, it's an interesting idea! Thanks for the suggestion. Will their be a change to the AI vampires at all? In theory! More specifically, we have long term plans for the vampire, which contain changes to AI. These will not be implemented for a while, and certainly not for the beta or public release, but hopefully! Any chance we can expect a long quest chain to be able to walk in the sun later on and become the ultimate vampire :dance: ? See above. Suffice to say...if we can get everything working in accordance to the long term plans, you'd be very ultimate indeed :thumbsup: For now though, we're mostly working on the vampires themselves, the world and it's responses come after. I'm also wondering about how Werewolves will react to us. Any chance their is some bad blood there? I saw you speak of sense dead and stuff, is it possible to sense supernatural beings? Like werewolves and other vampires? Nothing planned at the moment :confused: Sorry for bombarding you with questions, I wanted to post earlier but work has kept me pretty busy and I didn't have a chance to sit down and write this up. Awesome work again guys, the original vampire setup for skyrim was pretty pathetic and it was quite disappointing, I'm happy to see you guys took it upon yourselves to do it right. Hah, no problem! Great to have feedback for these initial stages, however you can get them to us. Welcome to the thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MofoMojo Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Just want to poke in again here and say great work. It seems I arrived at a nice time in this thread because I'm seeing a lot of updates, then again maybe it's been like this all 50 pages. I'm a big fan of vampires ever since I was a kid so I just want to know a few things about 1 negative aspect of being a sire and that is the attack on sight. In a way I can understand this for balance purposes but in another it seems weird. I mean in some stories even the most powerful of vampires maintain their human looks but in others their are physical changes. The Nosferatu in Vampire the Masquerade(RPG book game I played) comes to mind. So I can sort of understand that at the Sire level your body is corrupted more. As in your more vampire than human and that can be noticed but I feel that if your not 100% pure vampire(as in if your not a born vampire) that your physical appearance shouldn't have an effect to cause a full out attack on sight. Well, at no level is the vampire automatically AoS. What we managed to do was combine a hunger system with the AoS system, with stricter limits as the vampire goes up in levels. So, as a very new vampire, it's possible to be attacked on sight, but you'd need to be completely starving for it to trigger. On the other hand, if you're a Sire, then you get AoS'd quite a good deal sooner (but hopefully not annoyingly so). There should be a chart explaining it in these past few pages...I really need to update my original post :ermm: The most important thing here is that the hunger system and AOS system is completely configurable. If you don't want to EVER be AOS then you can turn that off, if you want to ALWAYS be AOS, then you can turn that on, if you only want SIRES to be AOS but only when starved, you can configure that too. What we've done is built a framework around the peices that we wanted to have, but then implemented a wide range of customization for it to suit your needs. You can play the mod with the settings as we intended, or feel free to nock your self out configuring it. Not to toot our own horn here, but here's a section out of the beta guide on what can be configured. Configuration and CheatsBelua Sanguinare can be modified to suit your personal tastes in progression. Do you think it’s too easy to progress. Do you want to disable the ability to REGRESS altogether or do you simply want to cheat your way to the top? Disable Attack on Sight or enable Attack on Sight ALL THE TIME? In its current state, the only way to configure Belua Sanguinare is via the Console. There are very specific global parameters that control the way Belua Sanguinare behaves: Global Values BeluaDaysStarvedFledglingToCuredThis value controls how many days it takes to go from starving as a fledgling to cured. -1 is the default value which means (can’t be cured by starving) effectively. I’m not even sure if this works yet. Default -1. BeluaDaysStarvedMasterToRisenDays it takes of starving to get from Master to Risen. Default 3 BeluaDaysStarvedProgenitorToMasterDays it takes of starving to get from Progenitor to Master. Default 4 BeluaDaysStarvedRisenToFledglingRisen to Fledgling. Default 2 BeluaDaysStarvedSireToProgenitorSire to Progenitor. Default 5 BeluaHungerDropAmountThis is the amount your satiation will drop when the duration period has been met. Default 4 BeluaHungerDropDurationSecondsThis is the number of ingame seconds to wait before dropping the satiation level. Default 3600 BeluaIncrementSatiatedLevelThis is the value to increase the satiation level when sneak feeding or feeding on a sleeping victim. Default 25 BeluaSatiationHeartRestoreAmountThis is the amount of satiation restored by eating a heart. Default 5 BeluaMaxSatiatedLevelThis is the maximum value supported by satiation. Default 100 BeluaHungeredSireAOSLevelThis should be a value between 0 and 5. It represents the satiation stage at which a Sire will be set to be Attacked On Sight. Setting this value to 5 (or higher) will ensure that the player is always AOS as a Sire for those that REALLY want a challenge. Default 2 Note: A value of -1 will disable AOS for this level BeluaHungeredProgenitorAOSLevelThis should be a value between 0 and 5, and works the same as BeluaHungeredSireAOSLevel, only for progenitors. Default 1Note: A value of -1 will disable AOS for this level BeluaHungeredMasterAOSLevelThis should be a value between 0 and 5, and works the same as BeluaHungeredSireAOSLevel, only for Masters. Default 1Note: A value of -1 will disable AOS for this level BeluaHungeredRisenAOSLevelThis should be a value between 0 and 5, and works the same as BeluaHungeredSireAOSLevel, only for Risen. Default 0Note: A value of -1 will disable AOS for this level BeluaHungeredFledglingAOSLevelThis should be a value between 0 and 5, and works the same as BeluaHungeredSireAOSLevel, only for Fledglings. Default 0Note: A value of -1 will disable AOS for this level BeluaHungeredEffectsLevelThis should be a value between 0 and 5. Like BeluaHungeredSireAOSLevel, it uses the players current satiated stage to determine when the “Hunger” effects, such as constant Detect Blood should kick in. Default 3. Note: A value of -1 will disable the always on Detect Blood effects. Additionally, this parameter is global. There are no specific parameters for each stage of vampirism at this time. BeluaStarvedLevel (not used – remove from document)This should be a value between 0 and the BeluaMaxSatiatedLevel. Like BeluaHungeredAOSLeve and BeluaStarvedLevel, it uses the players current satiated level to determine when the player is considered to be starving, which applies negative effects. BeluaSatiationDamageRequiredForMasterWhat total percent of satiation damage you must do to become Master (from Risen). Default 400 BeluaSatiationDamageRequiredForProgenitorTotal percent of satiation damage required for Progenitor. Default 800 BeluaSatiationDamageRequiredForRisenFor Risen. Default 100 BeluaSatiationDamageRequiredForSireFor Sire. Default 1600 BeluaTimesMustFeedForMasterHow many times you must feed for Master progression from Progenitor. Default 12 BeluaTimesMustFeedForProgenitorProgression to Progenitor from Master. Default 24 BeluaTimesMustFeedForRisenFor Risen. Default 1 BeluaTimesMustFeedForSireFor Sire. Default 48 BeluaTimesMustKillForMasterHow many times you must KILL through feed attacks for Master from Risen level. Default 4 BeluaTimesMustKillForProgenitorFor Progenitor. Default 20 BeluaTimesMustKillForRisenFor Risen. Default 0 BeluaTimesMustKillForSireFor Sire. Default 50 I hope that provides some insight. As I said above, we're building a framework and providing methods for customization to suit your desires, some things however, are not conifgurable. We think Sunlight should be as much an opponent in the game as a Dragon Priest and we have provided ways to ensure that it's not always a hinderance. -MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonerFO Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 (edited) Well, at no level is the vampire automatically AoS. What we managed to do was combine a hunger system with the AoS system, with stricter limits as the vampire goes up in levels. So, as a very new vampire, it's possible to be attacked on sight, but you'd need to be completely starving for it to trigger. On the other hand, if you're a Sire, then you get AoS'd quite a good deal sooner (but hopefully not annoyingly so). There should be a chart explaining it in these past few pages... Ahhhhh that makes sense that it is linked to hunger. The hungrier you get the more your inner beast comes out to feed, thus making it harder to hide that from the public until your hunger has been quenched. I like that and think that makes perfect sense. Thanks for clarifying that for me! Yep! That's something we're trying to balance out, a process which will undoubtedly be expedited as we put out the beta. We've been tossing a few ideas around, like disabling spells, and remember, it does cost magica to maintain. Nice! I'm looking forward to seeing how it plays out. Thoughts? Very cool. That said, I don't know how feasible it is, both from a programming standpoint or a gameplay one. Most people, I would assume, would just load up a save as soon as they die, kinda like how people save scum to avoid crimes. Still, it's an interesting idea! Thanks for the suggestion. That's true, people would probably load up a save instead of waiting to be resurrected. I just thought it would be an interesting way to approach a new game of skyrim. In theory! More specifically, we have long term plans for the vampire, which contain changes to AI. These will not be implemented for a while, and certainly not for the beta or public release, but hopefully! Awesome! I can only imagine how hard/long it would take to apply these changes to the AI. It's pretty cool that you guys are setting up an amazing foundation with this mod and will be working on it for the future. I hope that provides some insight. As I said above, we're building a framework and providing methods for customization to suit your desires, some things however, are not conifgurable. We think Sunlight should be as much an opponent in the game as a Dragon Priest and we have provided ways to ensure that it's not always a hinderance. That's pretty cool that you guys added in customization options. The AOS system makes more sense to me now that I understand it's linked to the hunger system and not simply if your a Sire you get attacked on sight. I have to say that the way you guys have everything set up is quite realistic to my views on how it should be. Great job! I appreciate the replies guys and thanks for the welcome to the thread! I'm really looking forward to this mod and it is looking amazing. Cheers guys! Looking forward to more updates! Edit: Just another quick question. What difficulty setting are you guys testing it out on right now? Edited April 1, 2012 by LonerFO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MofoMojo Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Just another update. I've been playing through some more, added some additional polish and added/changed a few things around. We previously had a spell called Bite that was for Fledglings (and all) that pretty much I ignored. It had to be used when sneaking, couldn't be in combat, and you could effectively absorb people of health but it provided no satiation. I've gone ahead and made it a weaker version of Blood Rend, which means you can cast it at a single person to absorb health. Not too much there, and pretty much like the standard "Vampire Drain" spell that you get in Vanilla, but it provides a little more oomph to the Fledgling that they needed. Second up... I implemented a "Vampire's Kiss" .... and really need a better name for that. Essentially, playing through and getting people to sleep has been a challenge. Hard enough with player trespassing damage. This spell will cause the NPC to find a bed and go to sleep. Not without some kinks mind you. They will only sleep in their own beds, or beds that have no ownership. If there's nothing around them that matches those criteria it kind of interrupts their behavior for 60 seconds. Working on polishing this up. Third up. Once I made it to master I was able to charm Ice Wolves. Which are one of the more powerful wolves and found in the snowy regions (which have become my home away from the sunlight!). Having three of those in tow is both.... really fun... and really exploitive. They can bring down a pack of bandits without me lifting a finger but they also dreadfully get in the way of potential Vampire Feed Attack victims. I've implemented a new global setting. BeluaAnimalAllyLimit - This limits the number of animal allies you can have. Default 1 Now, while the default value is 1, the mechanics that support allies still supports up to 3. Any number higher than 3 and you get 3. Any number lower than 1, you still get 1. So if you want to run around, with 3 sabre cats at your side because you're a Sire, you can do so...but the game probably won't be that challenging. Fourth up .... added in the game's version of water walking. Essentially it's walking in water. It does, however, allow you to skip across the surface of water, and even run across the surface for a little bit if approached at the right angle. We'll see how that goes. It's not a clean implementation like I'd like, but it's all the game supports and other attempts to make it work better have failed. It doesn't really detract from the game, you can still swim, etc,. We'll see what feedback provides. Finally, I also added a death easter egg....depending on how you die. :) Outside of that added some more polishing to the spell descriptions, cleaned up some of the visual FX. I don't know if I mentioned this but garlic is HAUNTING me in my game. Nearly every commoner has it, although only 25% are supposed to have it. It's a little funny but also a bit annoying since I'm no pickpocket. It's unreasonable for everyone to have it. I've tweaked the loot tables to try and fix it but need to start a fresh new game to see if it's working. - MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nskin039 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Finally, I also added a death easter egg....depending on how you die. :)- MM Does this mean if you aren't killed by fire, silver, garlic, you will resurrect after a certain time period? Please say yes. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MofoMojo Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Finally, I also added a death easter egg....depending on how you die. :)- MM Does this mean if you aren't killed by fire, silver, garlic, you will resurrect after a certain time period? Please say yes. :laugh: Great idea, but no. I think it might be a lot of work to implement a "True Death" with little reward as most people will just reload, not to mention the potential for quest related problems if you were to die in certain places, say...like Sovengarde during a certain battle....how does one get back? You have to start accounting for all these one-offs that I'm not even sure we'd be fully aware of. Still, I like the idea. -MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chow404 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 For the no death couldn't you just fall to the ground, make people around you stop attacking and for a certain period of time lay there, get a certain amount of health back. That way you don't "die" like mere mortals but it could still be dangorous if your near the sun that could fry you while your laying there helpless, or a vigilant comes by with a stake in hand. Or your already ashes because a dragon burned you to ashes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MofoMojo Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 For the no death couldn't you just fall to the ground, make people around you stop attacking and for a certain period of time lay there, get a certain amount of health back. That way you don't "die" like mere mortals but it could still be dangorous if your near the sun that could fry you while your laying there helpless, or a vigilant comes by with a stake in hand. Or your already ashes because a dragon burned you to ashes. That would likely require marking, and ensuring that the actor remained invulnerable and/or protected and faking their death. Something that I'm not sure is possible, but only because I haven't investigated it. I'm not sure how to keep people from attacking you if the game doesn't know you should be "playing" dead. You can certainly call StopCombat, but in my testing of it's use it doesn't always STOP combat indefinitely. Sometimes it kicks back in. Definitely something to think on, but I'm not going to delay the beta for it. :) Speaking of Beta, I'm hoping that the latest version I got to Jakisthe is "The One". I'd really like to get this out while some might have an opportunity to really hammer on it. I know Spring Break is this and/or next week for a lot of peeps much younger than I. -MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiKtheALiEN Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Just a quick post to say thanks for doing such an awesome mod! I love 'Quasi Caligo' especially. Regarding death, perhaps you could be forcibly turned to mist and have to sleep in a coffin to regain your physical form. Just an idea! Keep up the great work! Please don't take too long, lol :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakisthe Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) Thanks for the encouragement Nik! And welcome to the thread! Don't be afraid to give suggestions/ideas :thumbsup: Death...honestly, I can't see it working. Not because of the technical side, as MM always seems to surprise me and as such I've learned never to underestimate him (although it still would be rather intensive, to my understanding), but because...well, when people die, I don't see anyone NOT loading up a save. Well, at least most people would do as such. Admittedly, there would be those who would follow through with it, just because it would up immersion, but as MM said, it's likely going to be a case of lots o' work for not too much payoff. It's possible to force an autosave/normal save with the RequestSave or RequestAutosave functions right at the point of death, and well, that might assuage some of that, if people didn't just load up the second to latest save... But even if they didn't, it would take some serious trickery to trigger a save at 0 health (since the game would be in the process of reloading a new save when we'd try to...save the death state) or forcing a save when the player is right about to die (which would require the system to check for a death, go back a few frames in time, and retroactively create a save in the past...which just sounds all kinds of wacky complicated). Please don't think it's a bad idea. I love it! I know I wouldn't load up the save...it just seems a little beyond the scope of the initial public release we have in mind. Later on? Well, maybe. Right now though? See above :tongue: . Great idea though! Edited April 3, 2012 by Jakisthe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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