Clothing Overhaul?

[xenovie]

Hi,

 

Is there a way to make this game slightly more realistic by making it deeper what kinds of clothes do you wear that would matter? Of course... this would definitely take a while... but I saw a folder called "Low Class" in one of the clothing sections... I imagine that a Low Class clothing would probably give neutral or 1 extra personality to it... but depending what you wear... it will also affect your conversations differently depending on what kinds of people you talk to. Maybe a Low Class clothing would give you an extra five personality to the other people from the same class, but -2 or -3 to people who wear expensive clothing...

 

Then instead of just people responding to you if you don't wear any clothing like in a mod I saw once... it would give you a very harsh negative value on your personality (maybe -100? Haha). Which makes sense, unless maybe you're a girl in a Tavern ... or in a "Funhouse" ... Hmmm.

 

Well, in any case... this would definitely be a large project... and a rather ambitious one... but I wonder if it's actually feasible. That way, the role-playing aspect of the game gets even deeper... even though it'd only affect something as little as personality or whatnot...

[Vagrant0]

Hi,

 

Is there a way to make this game slightly more realistic by making it deeper what kinds of clothes do you wear that would matter? Of course... this would definitely take a while... but I saw a folder called "Low Class" in one of the clothing sections... I imagine that a Low Class clothing would probably give neutral or 1 extra personality to it... but depending what you wear... it will also affect your conversations differently depending on what kinds of people you talk to. Maybe a Low Class clothing would give you an extra five personality to the other people from the same class, but -2 or -3 to people who wear expensive clothing...

 

Then instead of just people responding to you if you don't wear any clothing like in a mod I saw once... it would give you a very harsh negative value on your personality (maybe -100? Haha). Which makes sense, unless maybe you're a girl in a Tavern ... or in a "Funhouse" ... Hmmm.

 

Well, in any case... this would definitely be a large project... and a rather ambitious one... but I wonder if it's actually feasible. That way, the role-playing aspect of the game gets even deeper... even though it'd only affect something as little as personality or whatnot...

Not particularly feasible, would pretty much require scripting every piece of clothing, or having a larger script which detects for every piece of clothing (slightly less complicated with OBSE). Then based on that apply the change to personallity (probably through abilities tied to each clothing spot). Aside from the cumbersome scripting, and that it wouldn't work with any clothing added by mods (negated using OBSE method), is that as soon as the player increased their personallity stat, the effect that the clothing had would lose importance (would require more scripting with OBSE to compensate effects based on level). Furthermore, given that armor is worn instead of clothing, any scripting which would trigger a "naked" state would have to check for armor as well (easier to do with OBSE).

 

But, when it really comes down to it, personallity doesn't play very much of a role in the game outside of buying/selling. Most of those people who you need a reasonable disposition with can have it raised higher through bribing or talking. Additionally, most NPCs still won't attack you, no matter how low your personallity is, unless you are a criminal... Not that you would really want most NPCs attacking you given how few are actually disposable. So even if you were so inclined to spend the time scripting it, it wouldn't really accomplish very much in the long run. There aren't even dialogues like there were in morrowind, so even when people hate you, they'll still say the same exact stuff they do now.

 

*And the OBSE scripting is still cumbersome since you would need to add in additional checks for each slot, checking to make sure that things which are multi-slot are counted seperately, and then make assumptions on personallity changes based on the value of the clothing in that slot... Value of course being a fairly touchy issue since there isn't a whole lot of price difference between some lower class items and higher class items, especially when enchantments are involved (would need more checks, along with some math to determine the added value from that enchantment). So essentially, just because OBSE might allow some steps here to be done easier, it adds others, and leads to a more technically complicated script than just working off known equipment. This does not mean that you cannot do both, but in doing both, you may end up having to set some sort of default or "no change" setting when unknown equipment is worn in that slot.

[GenghisKhanIT]

I'm not a modder, but I can only second what Vagrant said: Personality is an useless attribute ingame, and Speechcraft is the most useless skill.

 

That said, any mod, be it simple or difficult to realize, which changes Personality in-game, is a waste of time.

[xenovie]

Hmm. Or maybe add something so that this personality thing... makes more impact in the game. I can feel the difference more in Neverwinter Nights games for someone without charisma and someone with charisma...

[GenghisKhanIT]

I think that the low usage of Personality is rooted too deep into game mechanics.

 

For example, it could have impact on bandits attacking / not attacking, but it has been discussed and it seem not to be feasible.

 

Another use could be to have different conversation topics with NPCs based on Pers., but it seems even more difficult to me, and probably would generate conflicts with a bunch of other mods.

 

More use could be the possibility to tame wild animals by means of Pers., but I think it would go the same way.

 

I mean that since the game has been designed this way, so the modder's work to make Personality a more useful attribute would be quite challenging. For sure it would add a deeper role-playing factor, but it seems to me really difficult to make it work, especially in combination with other mods.

 

That said, I am not a modder myself, so I could always be mistaken.

[xenovie]

What if a limit is set? What if low classed people can never make a higher classed people's disposition more than 60? Then he/she will have to find ways to raise that disposition... either to buy expensive clothing, or to steal them, or to actually bribe these people, or use the charm spell? What if Dark Elves will generally have a lower disposition limit than every other races? Can this be done?

[GenghisKhanIT]

You can have disposition to 100 for anyone, even one you just hit with your weapon or robbed. Charm 100 pts for 2 sec on touch spell. Cast it and quickly talk to him/her. This is another reason why Personality and Speechcraft are useless.

[xenovie]

[sorry, double post by accident]

[xenovie]

Yes, I understand that, which is why, perhaps a limit can be set. This is similar to the Lockpicking and the Lock bash idea that unless you reach a certain skill in Security, you can never open the higher leveled chests, unless perhaps you bash it.

 

If a limit is set in such a way that will force an individual to actually spend money to bribe to increase disposition, or wear the right clothes... that's why a lot of mods reduce or eliminate the Charm spell from spellmaking, and those which are available for sell do not have very high disposition increase, so the spell will not be overpowered.

 

Suppose an Apprentice of Speechcraft can only persuade someone until his/her disposition is 50 max, and then using other means, she/he will have to find ways to increase it: either by charming, wearing the right clothes or bribing. That way, a master of Speechcraft will be the only one that can raise someone's disposition all the way to 100, or maybe only 90, by persuasion alone.

[Vagrant0]

Suppose an Apprentice of Speechcraft can only persuade someone until his/her disposition is 50 max, and then using other means, she/he will have to find ways to increase it: either by charming, wearing the right clothes or bribing. That way, a master of Speechcraft will be the only one that can raise someone's disposition all the way to 100, or maybe only 90, by persuasion alone.

Unfortunately, those limits cannot easily be done without having scripts applied to every NPC that the player is talking to. And at that, it would probably prove to be very troublesome since there are some people who you need a high disposition with to do anything. In short, something like this isn't pracitcal since it can only be done with scripting, and that scripting may interfere with other actions. Making speachcraft, or clothing more useful doesn't mean that people will necessarily want to deal with the things involved. As is many people just end up bribing people to the dispositions they need, since gold isn't hard to get later on, and usually 40-60 gold is all you need.

 

Additionally, as hinted, having high dispositions with things that are normally aggressive can cause problems. For example, getting fined, and your murder/assult count increasing for attacking bandits.

 

Really, the game just isn't designed to take advantage of things like personallity, and trying to do so would likely require doing things beyond what modders can do. Maybe it might work in a TC or something where you don't need to be as concerned with things working right with everything else, but as far as trying to do anything that would affect the normal game, there are just too many problems involved, too many changes that would need to be made. And with those changes compatabillity with other mods goes down.