Better Palaces

[amblingalong]

You remember, it's the chance to build cathedrals, entire cities, things that never existed.

-Inception

 

Hey all! Like everyone else, I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of the CK, but in the meantime I'm trying to get as much planning done as possible so I can hit the ground running. The biggest issue I want to address is cities; I want to turn all the cities into much larger, more complex areas. Personally, I think the design in Skyrim is a huge step up; in particular, Markarth is just beautifully designed. I love that type of architectural style, which involves playing with verticality, bridges, water elements, under- and overpasses, etc. That said, they are quite small, and with a few exceptions I think there's a ton of room to expand them. This thread is a way I can hopefully get feedback and ideas, and if possible collaborators (I have a ton of experience designing and modeling- much less with scripting and texturing).

 

I'm an architect, and I mod as a way to build things that I can't in the real world.

 

Short term goals:

 

I'm going to start with the palaces. I think a couple, like Mistveil, are fine, but the Blue Palace, Palace of Kings, and Dragonsreach really need to be expanded. The outsides are so much larger and more impressive than the interior areas that it's only logical to expand the accessible portion.

 

Blue Palace

This is where I'll probably start. Only about 10% of the exterior model is filled with rooms. So I want to fill in the wings and front surrounding the courtyard, which are each three to four stories high. In particular, that tower in front is just begging to be used for something cool and potentially quest related. Things I'd like to include:

• A large library. It's been emptied over time, and now the librarian wants one copy of each book in the game- and will reward you with an ancient manuscript for completing this mission.
  
• An armory, protected by guards
  
• Treasury (also highly protected by traps, magic, locks, and patrols)
  
• Hidden passageways in the walls
  
• More bedrooms/inhabitants
  

One last idea: I've noticed a lack of good artifact bows in the game (literally every other type of weapon and armor has multiple powerful artifacts), so I'm thinking about creating a powerful bow and a quest for it inside the Palace. The librarian's reward for collecting one of each book could be the first clue in a series which takes you questing around the Palace and Skyrim, finally unlocking a door hidden in the Pelagius Wing which gives access to Abberant, a bow which:

• Generates its own, unlimited arrows (no quiver displayed; when drawn/fired, uses the Bound Arrow. Third person animation will take some work).
  
• Randomly imposes either Fear, Calm, or Frenzy on the target up to level 30
  

 

Dragonsreach

This place imprisoned a dragon, right? Then it needs to have the facilities to do it! And where does all that water come from, anyways? I would add, to start:

• A large network of underground hallways, which degrade as you get deeper, leading to a huge cavern with shackles/chains restraining Numinex, still very much alive (is this lore-breaking? Do dragons die of old age?)
  
• The source of all that water: an ancient Dwemer mechanism which is pumping water up and dumping it on Numinex, who would otherwise be able to use his fire breath. Potentially, a quest would allow you do disable the system, freeing Numinex, who would immediately turn on you (because otherwise I'd have to figure out how to have him escape, and I'm not sure that's possible).
  
• Fill in the vertical areas a bit with hallways, rooms, more occupants.
  
• Probably have to remove the skull from above the throne, since I think that's supposed to be Numinex's remains.
  

 

I'm fine with Understone Keep and Mistveil, since they seem basically filled out; I need ideas for the Palace of Kings.

Edited January 13, 2012 by amblingalong

[huntsman2310]

Awesome extensions man!

 

Unfortunately Numinex is dead.You know the Dragon Skull sitting right above the Jarl's throne in the main hall? That's his.

 

Still I love the idea of whole underground level being made for Whiterun, it'd be good to know just how they keep that water all pristine and clear.

 

Maybe for Solitude there could be a whole underground network located inside the arch of rock that Solitude sits on. Be its own little Ratway.

[ishmaeltheforsaken]

Those all sound like really neat ideas!

[amblingalong]

Awesome extensions man!

 

Unfortunately Numinex is dead.You know the Dragon Skull sitting right above the Jarl's throne in the main hall? That's his.

 

Still I love the idea of whole underground level being made for Whiterun, it'd be good to know just how they keep that water all pristine and clear.

 

Maybe for Solitude there could be a whole underground network located inside the arch of rock that Solitude sits on. Be its own little Ratway.

 

I like that idea for Solitude, though it would be tricky because the [spoilers] Wolf Queen quest already takes up a significant amount of the arch.

 

As for Numinex, I was thinking I could just mod out the skull above the throne, and put something else there; but I guess the lore-purists might hate me for this, so I'll try to come up with something else. I do like the idea of a Dwemer mechanism being responsible for the constant flow of water out of the castle, though. Maybe it could be serving some other purpose? Any ideas will be helpful, I'm hoping to have preliminary sketches done before the CK comes out. Thanks for the support!

[huntsman2310]

I think the Wolf Queen quest location, sort of takes place in the spire rock under the Blue Palace.

 

I was thinking there could be a black market or massive slums area inside the part of the arch that the main town rests on.

[ALittleBird]

Great ideas. Always felt the Blue Palace was a bit too small on the inside.

And for Dragonsreach, maybe place, instead of an living Numinex, the rest of his skeleton in the underground paths?

Edited January 13, 2012 by ALittleBird

[huntsman2310]

I think the two palaces that need the most extending done, are the Blue Palace (Solitude) and the Palace of Kings (Windhelm)

 

The Blue Palace was the seat of the High Kings of Skyrim for a long time, and it should reflect this.

 

Right now its 'throne' room, is basically a glorified sitting room. Its throne is pathetically small, not fit for even the Jarl that sits on it.

 

All you get is one dusty closed off Wing, a kitchen, and the throne room. From what is seen outside it is a postively huge building with many floors. It could be better is what I'm saying.

 

And onto the Palace of Kings.

 

What is there now? A big massive hall with a couple of side rooms, along with a kitchen and a dungeon.

 

When I imagined the palace of Kings, I saw a big massive ornate hall, lined with the statues of past Kings, with the throne made of skyforge steel and enscribed with Nordic Runes. It is also a huge building as well, and with enough time, could become the home for dozens of new quest givers.

[MajikMoshos]

Indeed how these palaces irk me...Blue palace's front entrance doesn't even match up to the exterior model! I actually wandered about thinking "did I miss a door?" when I noted how huge the palace is on the outside!

 

 

When I imagined the palace of Kings, I saw a big massive ornate hall, lined with the statues of past Kings, with the throne made of skyforge steel and enscribed with Nordic Runes. It is also a huge building as well, and with enough time, could become the home for dozens of new quest givers.

 

Dude, I was thinking the exact same thing when I was waiting at the friggen load screen. They've already got assets for Talos and Yssgrammor's statues, so really it's just a matter of making a couple more out of the most famous kings to be like Skyrim's Mount Rushmore.

 

Anyway, this and AssyMcgee's thread should get together and have a sexy baby. Just sayin'.

[Jakisthe]

I'm liking the ideas so far! Here's my input:

 

-Palace of Kings: As other have said, regal it up. Ornate tapestries, statues of kings, hanging pelts, the works. Let's not forget that it's also the seat of the rebellion. Perhaps there could be a wing for the secret assassins of the stormcloaks; poison/explosive makers whose job it is to sneak into other palaces and play their contraptions. Think of it as an "official" DB+thieves guild in one, but with more rules. You'd be able to do quests for these people (plant such and such evidence on a high ranking imperial commander to have him deposed, steal war plans, stealthily kill everyone in a random imperial camp, etc).

-It's also much taller than we get to see. There could be at least 2 more floors, where the real war planning could be going on (instead of some random side room). Complete this with Ulfrics personal armory, a panoramic view of the city and surrounding areas, etc.

-Torture room? I dunno about this one, seems a bit heavy handed, but I could certainly see it as a quest relevant to both sides (help+assist the victim in some plot, or extract information from him concerning troop movements).

 

-Blue Palace: I love the idea of a library; there are so many possible secrets you could put in there. Pull a book, and a secret door opens to the Jarls panic room! Inside would be basic food+water for long sieges, and an escape route weaving through the stone arch to a hidden dock for further escapings. Of course, it would also be packed with TONs of history books, like all those song tomes, the _______ part 27s and so on.

-I don't see why so few past kings have their own "wings". Surely there must be relevant ones besides Pelagius? Each one could be almost "themed" in a way around the old kings.

-Underneath the palace/in the lower wings could be a clandestine thalmor base. They'd be having their fingers in the political machinations of the jarl, and using it as another location from which to secretly enforce their anti Talos beliefs.

-Ruins of the old palace beneath it. Could this be where the moot convenes, in the old remnants of the imperial history? Maybe!

 

-Dragonreach: I still think you could have a dragon underneath it, but it would be an imprisoned skeleton which some powerful, evil conjurer is trying to ressurect. Instead of a simply dwemner mechanism, could have an entire [tiny] complex of theirs, with the source of water being an old water elemental. This could keep going along with what you had in mind-the water must possess some kind of magic to contain the dragon (even in death), and it could be that the entire stream is more important than people realize...a font of life for all of Skyrim. How this plays out, I don't know, but that water certainly is unusual...

 

-Understone: A big hall, multiple stories tall, built into the back of the mountain, with all sorts of ornate seating arrangements, opera balconies, and a massive crystal hanging down from the ceiling (yet still leaving plenty of room underneath it). There could even be stone/magical paths from the balconies to said crystal, and inside you'd see the bodies of past dwemner kings entombed in the translucent, glowing walls, and a wizard taking in all the "mystical energies" of the thing...Could have some quests to further reveal what happened to the dwemner, to get a special spell which fires like a shotgun yet has a chance to freeze foes into...well, crystal. One of the secret assassin missions from the palace of kings could be to break off this structure and send it crashing to the great hall below.

-Silver! A vast silver statue of a famous dwemner king could go at the back of the great hall, one of his his palms out stretched, and a waterfall of mercury is flowing from that palm. This waterfall falls behind the throne, before diverging into smaller streams which go into the walls and enrich the surroundings. The player character could choose to wash their blades in this mercury to get the "silver" attribute on top of their already existing enchants, or could somehow learn a "Mercury" spell that kills instantly when used on phantasmal/mystic enemies (but uses a piece of silver ore/ingot).

 

-Mistveil: The biggest thing here is that there's not enough secret passages. There should be an entire network under/connected to the palace and going across a large swath of the surroundings to serve as discreet listening/observation/escape routes, further capitalizing on the presence of...less than regal activities in the city. Could the keep be sponsoring the secret manufacture, sale, and infrastructure behind a large skooma network to fund the war efforts/Black-Briars? Who knows!

[amblingalong]

When I imagined the palace of Kings, I saw a big massive ornate hall, lined with the statues of past Kings, with the throne made of skyforge steel and enscribed with Nordic Runes. It is also a huge building as well, and with enough time, could become the home for dozens of new quest givers.

 

Great point. Maybe something like this, with statues in those alcoves instead of windows? Or

? Also, look how much more imposing the concept art is: I'd love to try to restore that sense of a huge, aggressive, shamble of points and angles.

 

It's also much taller than we get to see. There could be at least 2 more floors, where the real war planning could be going on (instead of some random side room). Complete this with Ulfrics personal armory, a panoramic view of the city and surrounding areas, etc.

 

I like this idea. What I think I'll ultimately do, based on the feedback I'm getting, is make the whole building three or four floors, except the main hall will go from floor to roof. Each set of hallways on the side will open up onto that central Hall of Kings; also, the statues should reach from the floor up to the highest level alcoves, so we're alternating alcove-statue-alcove. Something like this, but much more ornate.

 

I still think you could have a dragon underneath it, but it would be an imprisoned skeleton which some powerful, evil conjurer is trying to ressurect.

 

This could work. Perhaps the quest starts when the skull of Numinex goes missing from above the throne, because the conjurer needs it?