NPCS reactions to your race?

[faifh]

Actually, if YOU THINK ABOUT IT, this is very untrue, if you THINK ABOUT IT. Since you can enter any city freely before you kill that dragon, and other than alduin no one knows you are a dragonborn until you kill one. Just do what you shout and THINK ABOUT IT.

If you were worth the effort, I'd fraps a video for YouTube of me making a Khajiit character, going straight from Helgen to every single city except Whiterun, ending with Windhelm, where that Khajiit would go buy something from Sadris Used Wares and then get a drink in the New Gnisis Corner Club.

 

You are ignoring the fact that Bethesda intended you to do said dragon killing quest before you went anywhere else. You cant take something the game devs didn't intend for you to do as canon.

 

I find your attempts to weasel out of the truth to be cute in a childish way.

 

Dude, by all respect, now calling "childish" and what not. You're a just puny fool. The main plot, the way it is intended walks you right into whiterun, before you kill a dragon, and albeit the khajiit are banned from whiterun, no guard says anything...

[Ayceman]

They're not banned from Whiterun or any other city. Khajiit mercenaries are banned from setting up shop inside the cities.

[FordPerfect]

My Dark Elf received 'elf taunts' and my Khajiit received 'cat taunts', but my Breton doesn't receive any race specific remarks at all.

[Dukkah]

Yeah, there are very few differences between the races. I think this design decision had something to do with Beth not wanting to close off any paths or missions to the player because of choices they made in the game. It would be along the same line of reasoning that led them to open up all of the guilds regardless of how perks are invested (e.g, a mage at the head of the Companions and a warrior at the head of the college). One can sense in this and other aspects of the game that there was supposed to be something more that didn't make it in. Fully developed, it would likely have included some or all of the ideas put forward in previous posts.

 

I mean, we certainly know they didn't pull the plug on this for technical reasons. Maybe financial? If so, Beth should stop trying to put big names in their games, so we can have more dialogue from more than 5 actors.

[Feanoro]

I agree with the fact that there should be more race, quest and task-specific dialogue/interactions/quests in the game, to make it more interesting to choose one race over the other and to validate the things you do in game.

 

However, I don't understand why you're all so obsessed with this racism thing! First of all, sure, I agree there's a great amount of laziness involved on Bethesda's part but the Stormcloaks aren't meant to be an extremely racist group.

 

If they were racist to the point of ethnical cleansing or slavery who the heck would still join them? If they were THAT racist, the game would basically be black and white, something that, as we all know, is not the aim of Bethesda's games.

 

The Stormcloaks are nothing more and nothing less than a military faction aiming to kick the Empire and the Thalmor out of Skyrim and make Ulfric High King.

 

As for the fact that some NPCs call the Stormcloaks racist, this doesn't make it a truth. Going by that logic the Empire would be even worse if you listen to what the Stormcloaks say about it.

 

Where you do have overt racism it's usually from disgruntled and impoverished people (and in some cases just straight up drunk) with few exceptions which are a normal amount of bad apples in the big bushel of Nords.

 

As for Windhelm itself, you have to understand that the Dunmer situation has quite a strong context to it, it's not as clear-cut as it appears when you enter the city. Sure there's racism towards the Dunmer, but the latter aren't ideal either.

 

A counterexample to the blanket racism people attribut to the Stormcloaks are the ALTMER (theoretically most hated race) traders in Windhelm itself: Nurelion, owner of the White Phial and Niranye, both in the Blacksmithing quarter (hence not isolated to the Grey Quarter).

 

If you actually listen to Niranye she'll tell you that while there were some fools shouting racist stuff at her when she came to Windhelm she quickly got to know and make friends with people of higher caliber and now everyone knows she's ok. She also tells you that the Dunmer are prideful and stubborn in their ways which is THE main reason why they're still stuck in the Gray Quarter.

 

Like someone else also said, in other Stormcloak cities there isn't even that much: Riften has Dunmer and Argonians all over the place and an Altmer is the Jarl's steward, Winterhold has a Dunmer employed as a mage despite Korir generally hating on the whole magic business, and so on.

 

Honestly, I think you people should chill out on the whole racism thing in TESV, it's just there to give the Stormcloaks a nasty flavor, the way religious persecution and bowing to the Thalmor (which includes letting the Thalmor arrest people willy nilly in Skyrim) does to the Empire.

 

Anyways, I'd appreciate it if everyone could refrain from claiming racism based on what random people SAY. In general, people talk a lot of s***. It's what people DO that matters.

[Saroe]

I agree with the fact that there should be more race, quest and task-specific dialogue/interactions/quests in the game, to make it more interesting to choose one race over the other and to validate the things you do in game.

 

However, I don't understand why you're all so obsessed with this racism thing! First of all, sure, I agree there's a great amount of laziness involved on Bethesda's part but the Stormcloaks aren't meant to be an extremely racist group.

 

If they were racist to the point of ethnical cleansing or slavery who the heck would still join them? If they were THAT racist, the game would basically be black and white, something that, as we all know, is not the aim of Bethesda's games.

 

The Stormcloaks are nothing more and nothing less than a military faction aiming to kick the Empire and the Thalmor out of Skyrim and make Ulfric High King.

 

As for the fact that some NPCs call the Stormcloaks racist, this doesn't make it a truth. Going by that logic the Empire would be even worse if you listen to what the Stormcloaks say about it.

 

Where you do have overt racism it's usually from disgruntled and impoverished people (and in some cases just straight up drunk) with few exceptions which are a normal amount of bad apples in the big bushel of Nords.

 

As for Windhelm itself, you have to understand that the Dunmer situation has quite a strong context to it, it's not as clear-cut as it appears when you enter the city. Sure there's racism towards the Dunmer, but the latter aren't ideal either.

 

A counterexample to the blanket racism people attribut to the Stormcloaks are the ALTMER (theoretically most hated race) traders in Windhelm itself: Nurelion, owner of the White Phial and Niranye, both in the Blacksmithing quarter (hence not isolated to the Grey Quarter).

 

If you actually listen to Niranye she'll tell you that while there were some fools shouting racist stuff at her when she came to Windhelm she quickly got to know and make friends with people of higher caliber and now everyone knows she's ok. She also tells you that the Dunmer are prideful and stubborn in their ways which is THE main reason why they're still stuck in the Gray Quarter.

 

Like someone else also said, in other Stormcloak cities there isn't even that much: Riften has Dunmer and Argonians all over the place and an Altmer is the Jarl's steward, Winterhold has a Dunmer employed as a mage despite Korir generally hating on the whole magic business, and so on.

 

Honestly, I think you people should chill out on the whole racism thing in TESV, it's just there to give the Stormcloaks a nasty flavor, the way religious persecution and bowing to the Thalmor (which includes letting the Thalmor arrest people willy nilly in Skyrim) does to the Empire.

 

Anyways, I'd appreciate it if everyone could refrain from claiming racism based on what random people SAY. In general, people talk a lot of s***. It's what people DO that matters.

 

I know this was posted over a year ago, but heh...

I'm probably wrong, but if folks feel any way similar to how I do, it's not that racism in Skyrim is a massive problem... it's... well, kind of the lack of it.

Someone chided in earlier about how it may break the game if there were some restrictions based on player-character choices, but admittedly, some would make more sense, or could be easily worked around.

Whiterun, I find, is usually a perfect example.

Khajiit caravans are forced to sit outside the gate to peddle their wares. Meanwhile, the player can just barge into the front gate, and once inside, no one asks any questions. An easy work-around? The Player-Knajiit can inform a guard of the dragon's attack on Helgen, and he sends another guard to inform jarl Balgruuf or his steward.

The same can be done with Redguards who - I believe - are under similar restrictions as the Khajiit, unless it was intended that the Redguard soldiers are simply not allowed beyond the gate (which I still think is rather odd that they even managed to enter the city in the first place).

 

It just kind of seems like, for some reason or another, the player is an exception to all of the game's rules. Other people made claim that it's because everyone knows the player is the Dragonborn, and thus respects the title more than the race. Well, that doesn't appear to be entirely true, either.

In each guild, no one addresses the player as Dragonborn. I mean, without completing or advancing in the main quest, at least. In all guild-story related dialogues, no one seems to either know, or give a damn about a Dragonborn, or - for the most part - even care about the dragons themselves, and treat the player as though they're one of the seemingly infinite members of the Skyrim populous.

In Windhelm, rather than insulting a Dark Elf or High Elf player on sight, Rolff has to *ask* if you side with the Dark Elves or not.

There's no prejudice to an elven player attempting to enter a Stormcloak city, similar to how the Thalmor seem to sneer at everyone, and hate all things, even other High Elves.

 

It just seems lacking, in summary :o

Sheesh, I'm long-winded o3o

[Arimikami]

The same can be done with Redguards who - I believe - are under similar restrictions as the Khajiit, unless it was intended that the Redguard soldiers are simply not allowed beyond the gate (which I still think is rather odd that they even managed to enter the city in the first place).

 

 

I saw this and thought an explanation was in order. It's not that Redguards aren't allowed into the city. It's that those Redguards are no longer welcome in Whiterun. The guard mentions that they're lucky before they leave and the reason they're lucky is because the Whiterun guards didn't kill all three of them after one of them killed a Whiterun guard. I think the reason the price you have to pay for his bail is only 100 gold is simply because that's early enough in the game that it's expected that you won't have the money to pay it but, if you look around the city after meeting the Redguards at the city gate, and I mean really look because it's almost always in an out of the way place, you'll find a dead guard somewhere in the city.

[Shubal]

I'm not wanting, hoping or asking that a video game instruct me on life. In the real world, every race is racist at many levels although the current fashion is that only Caucasians are capable of racism. In my current play through I am using an outside mod that allows me to play as a Skeever, want to hear about racism in Skyrim from a Skeevers point of view? You are all teh evil ratcists!

[RatcatcherOfKvatch]

"If everyone is telling you that Ulfric is a monsterous racist and the Stormcloaks a bag of phalluses, then they should act like it."

 

The reason I switched sides (Imperial to 'Cloak) was because all the stories about Ulfric were overblown nonsense, while the most serious discrimination I could find anywhere was the genocide against Talos worshippers, something that can only be rectified by going 'Cloak and kicking ass.

 

If the designers wanted the 'Cloaks to be less sympathetic they'd need to be more racist, this is true. Let's look at the strikes against the 'Cloaks:

 

Segregation: Only in Windhelm, except for Khajiit (who are discriminated against by everyone).

 

Genocide: None.

 

Ethnic Cleansing: The original Forsworn dispossession took place "a thousand years ago" (Bothela) so you can't really blame the 'Cloaks for restoring a generations-old status quo. The Forsworn might as well be Greeks reclaiming Constantinople ("not Istanbul") from Turkey. Were such a thing to happen Turkey's attempt to re-reclaim Istanbul (not ... well, you get it) wouldn't be proof of racism; any nation would do this. The Forsworn conflict says nothing about the Stormcloaks.

 

Glass Ceiling: All political power comes from heredity or right of conquest on both sides. Whether or not nepotism is racism everybody does it.

Merchants are merchants whatever their race; in fact in Windhelm, Nordville Central, non-Nord merchants outnumber Nords.

Military service appears incidentally segregated, but dig a little deeper and you find that any race may join the 'Cloaks, and in fact, "You refuse to help the Stormcloaks," is a charge leveled against one of the major Dunmer merchants in Windhelm. ("It's not our fight," is her response.) There is an extra "racial loyalty oath" administered by Galmar before a non-Nord is allowed to enlist, but once enlisted non-Nords are treated as equals.*

 

Freedom of Speech: Ambarys Rendar is rather openly pro-Empire, and his Cornerclub is a nexus of pro-Empire dissent. Even if you count the Imperial decor as "hidden" the Bosmer Blades agent finds his way to the club, and do you think he's toasting Galmar in there? Rendar is not persecuted or singled out for his dissent. Score one for the Stormcloaks.

 

Equality Before the Law: Well we all know about this one. Dunmer need to form a Neighborhood Watch because the Nord Police sure aren't going to protect or serve. (If you commit a crime against a non-Nord the guards will still arrest you.*)

 

By historic Earth standards the 'Cloaks are pretty well-behaved; none of their crimes rise to the level of classics like slavery, genocide, or ethnic cleansing. Compare that to the Imperials, who sit passively while genocide (and political assassination under the gentlemanly guise of genocide) takes place right under their noses while they shrug. It's no contest.

If Bethesda wanted to give us a real moral dilemma they needed to dirty up the 'Cloaks a little more. If we're meant to find our way to the Stormcloaks after Morrowind and Oblivion taught us how wonderful the Empire is they succeeded.

 

* The "Dragonborn Exception" argument makes a good point. "They let me do it," isn't the best proof, so here's an asterisk for you.

[Draconious]

 

My original point still stand MOST Dunmer in Windhelm do little besides sit around and complain. Even Hlaalu admits they complain too much and do too little.

This is the usual vicious circle, they are segregated, thus they do business rather with them selves, or none, because well most prefer costumers prefer native trades. Then people claim they do nothing and segregate further.

 

Same with the Kahjiit, they may not enter the cities, or do any legitimate work, because in Skyrim they are all considered thieves and criminals. With no options of legitimate work or endorsement they come thieves and criminals.

 

And no, I won't let the argument go through that the player/dragonborn Kahjiit or Dunmer doesn't get any problems - thats just game mechanics and as discussed and undesirable weakness of the game. I would have more replay value if any of the in game discussed issues would apply.

 

Well maybe they should get their asses back to their own country then and trade there, instead of trying to exploit the situation in Skyrim.