Books

[ninja_lord666]

And yeah, Newt, Ninja is right. Dividing by zero is verrrrrrrry bad. Your commandment is a close second, though.

My friend and I once had a debate about dividing by zero. We surmised that successfully dividing by zero produces another universe...Don't even ask how we reached that...

Ninja... I thought you knew me better than that. I MUST know! :P

 

And I am also unsure of what we are actually supposed to debate here. Is it whether books are better than other forms of communication?

Well, we figured, first, that dividing by zero creates a black hole, as it would seem logical that an impossibility causes a mysterious unexplained phenomenon, right? However, I pointed out that, by dividing, one looks to see how many times x goes into y, and zero can go into y infinite times. No matter how many times you add zero t o zero, you'll never get y (assuming, of course, that y is not zero). So, dividing by zero creates an infinite, and the only possible infinite is a universe. So, we figured, that, since the universe is based on mathematics (I don't remember who said that), dividing by zero creates a universe. We even went so far as to say that's how our universe was created; someone in a different universe successfully divided by zero.

I know there was a lot more to the discussion, but, unfortunately, I don't remember most of it.

[Vagrant0]

Books are the root of all evil. Afterall the written word can be distorted and used against a person, or improperly, later, without the writers consent. If things have to be written down, they should either be written down on a whiteboard, or with letter-shaped refridgerator magnets (so that any words or parts of words can be removed without a trace later). All information should be passed on by word of mouth so that any inaccuracies cannot be sorted out. It worked for thousands of years before an alphabet was developed, or atleast that's what I was told.

 

Ok, in all seriousness, it's no suprise that teachers have a hard time making students interested in reading. Many of the "good" books which might be interesting to young adults have been banned in most schools. And even though there are plenty of good books out there that aren't banned, the stuff they use between 6th grade and senior year of highschool tends to be rather static, and repetative. I could have sworn that I had to read A Raisin in the Sun atleast 3-4 times between those years, Of Mice and Men twice (before it was banned), and atleast a dozen other titles (which fail to come to me now) more than once. Trying to preserve a cannon of contemporary writings is one thing, but by repeating books (just to make sure people read them) you only ruin people's interest in reading (since they didn't enjoy it the first time around). And sadly, I see even college literature classes (not even the remedial ones) dealing with those same books. Whatever happened to expecting people to already have that basis beforehand, or catching up on their own time if they hadn't?

 

Really, the only times when I actually saw anyone interested in what they were reading in class was when the teacher was feeling crazy and let us actually select books (on an individual or small group basis) that we were to read.

 

If you're out of school, and still have the interest/time to read, more power to you.

[delphinus]

Books are the root of all evil. Afterall the written word can be distorted and used against a person, or improperly, later, without the writers consent. If things have to be written down, they should either be written down on a whiteboard, or with letter-shaped refridgerator magnets (so that any words or parts of words can be removed without a trace later). All information should be passed on by word of mouth so that any inaccuracies cannot be sorted out. It worked for thousands of years before an alphabet was developed, or atleast that's what I was told.

 

Ok, in all seriousness, it's no suprise that teachers have a hard time making students interested in reading. Many of the "good" books which might be interesting to young adults have been banned in most schools. And even though there are plenty of good books out there that aren't banned, the stuff they use between 6th grade and senior year of highschool tends to be rather static, and repetative. I could have sworn that I had to read A Raisin in the Sun atleast 3-4 times between those years, Of Mice and Men twice (before it was banned), and atleast a dozen other titles (which fail to come to me now) more than once. Trying to preserve a cannon of contemporary writings is one thing, but by repeating books (just to make sure people read them) you only ruin people's interest in reading (since they didn't enjoy it the first time around). And sadly, I see even college literature classes (not even the remedial ones) dealing with those same books. Whatever happened to expecting people to already have that basis beforehand, or catching up on their own time if they hadn't?

 

Really, the only times when I actually saw anyone interested in what they were reading in class was when the teacher was feeling crazy and let us actually select books (on an individual or small group basis) that we were to read.

 

If you're out of school, and still have the interest/time to read, more power to you.

 

 

Well, i dont' agree very much in letting students select their readings. With no knowledge about literature the kids would choose the dumbest books around. Still, you must have the wisdom to propose them something intersting, possibly different from Federico Moccia's books (the most idiot writer in italy and probably in the world, that everyone under 20years old reads) informing them that there is a wide choice of books in the world's literature, and not only their restricted selection.

[Vagrant0]

Well, i dont' agree very much in letting students select their readings. With no knowledge about literature the kids would choose the dumbest books around. Still, you must have the wisdom to propose them something intersting, possibly different from Federico Moccia's books (the most idiot writer in italy and probably in the world, that everyone under 20years old reads) informing them that there is a wide choice of books in the world's literature, and not only their restricted selection.

Well, obviously they would be picking from a list of pre-approved books. But no, it's best to have books from a wider range of authors and periods of time. Afterall, grades 1-5 (probably closer to 3-5 now adays since 1st grade seems to be dealing with shapes and numbers now, and 2nd grade is basic math and reading) filled with Judy Blume is bad enough to stamp out most of a child's natural interest in reading. The purpose shouldn't be to instill some sort of cannon, but to make people capable, and interested readers who might be more inclined to seek out those works on their own.

[ninja_lord666]

Books are the root of all evil.

No, this is the source of all evil:

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s245/ninja_lord666/Source-of-All-Evil.jpg

:P

 

 

Seriously, though, I agree with you. School nearly killed my joy of reading. It was a pure miracle that I actually enjoyed Of Mice and Men. I also agree that children should be able to pick their books from a list. However, I doubt teachers will ever do that, since tests would then become rather hard to standardise.

[KzinistZerg]

I have to say that English class just stamps out creativity, at least in my school. Some of the stuff we've read and some of the things we do are interesting, but then we get graded on them and we get assignments and by the time we're done with a book I hate it more often than not.

 

And this is from a person that finds most of the things English classes supposedly do fascinating! I love reading. But English class? Hell.

[Vagrant0]

Seriously, though, I agree with you. School nearly killed my joy of reading. It was a pure miracle that I actually enjoyed Of Mice and Men. I also agree that children should be able to pick their books from a list. However, I doubt teachers will ever do that, since tests would then become rather hard to standardise.

It can be easily argued that reading just for the sake of passing a test is really doing more harm than good. Especially since such tests end up asking questions that the casual reader won't just pick up without actually looking for them... Or just skipping ahead and using cheatbooks. And since teachers want to discourage the use of cheatbooks, they ask even more unusual questions. It's a vicious cycle.

 

Really, if there is to be any sort of grading involved with reading, something along the lines of a bookreport style can be a bit more effective. This way you're forcing the students to talk about the book, but not in any way which would discourage interest. And the teacher can still ask specific questions about the book to the group, to make sure that it was read. Using such a format, you're rewarding people who show an interest in what they're reading, and allow them to pass on that interest to their classmates. It just requires a bit more effort than just handing out a test, and requires establishing an environment of trust and understanding beforehand. Both of which few are willing to do.

 

School in general is a real mess. Half the time assignments are made without any reason other than having a grade to record. There's no personal interest involved, there's no explaination as to what the point of the assignment is, but they expect it to be done how they want it to be done. Thankfully this seems to be less common once you get to college and can just drop classes if you end up with those sorts of teachers. While yes, you do run into this sort of thing in the real world, especially if you're working in an office somwhere, all it really does is make students dulled to learning, and not personally invested in their work.

[ninja_lord666]

The problem, though, is that most teachers feel that book reports are a stupid waste of time and prefer tests, especially now with ScanTron tests where the teacher doesn't even need to grade them anymore. I agree that, in reading, tests aren't the best, but I'm being realistic in saying that teachers will continue using tests until something easier comes around. So, teachers will continue using the same books to make those tests easier. You're right, teachers don't actually care about the children. They care about having an easy, high-benefits, guaranteed vacation, high-paying job.

[Vagrant0]

They care about having an easy, high-benefits, guaranteed vacation, high-paying job.

Wait you're talking about teachers right? I don't think easy, high-benefit, and high-pay come into the picture. And the vacation time they get... I don't think they're even paid for it, or if they are, it isn't much. And it's actually a bad thing since you can only plan trips when school isn't in session, which generally makes any sort of travel more expensive.

 

I'm not out to badmouth teachers. Most genuinely go into it wanting to reach out to students, however most either get a reality check a few years in, or end up reaching out too much, and serving jail time. But this is mostly because by the time they've gotten to the students, most of that innate will to learn has been choked out of the students by other teachers. The real tragedy is that by the time those students go to college, their interest is practically nill. Go and sit in on any 100 level gen. ed. course, it's downright frightening how little many students care about what it being taught unless they are paying for it themselves.

 

So yeah, easier isn't always better, and with education, you only get back what you put in.

 

The only real silver lining to this is that there have been a few books, which have atleast momentatily kept that bit of interest alive in young readers. But once you've read through Harry Potter and The Lord of The Rings, there really isn't a whole lot out there within that genre that isn't completely mindless drivel. So there needs to be something that will force that branching out into other genres so that that spark can stay alight.

[Eiden]

It's not just the schools that should be trying to interest children in reading. The parents should have been educating their children from the moment they are born. I cannot speak for myself, as I was too young to remember, but, I can remember that my brother, as an infant, was read to, and classical music and opera was played during these reading times. Parents allow their children too much freedom today, and tend to sit them down in front of a television rather than spend time with them and encourage reading, relying upon an overtaxed education system to teach their children to read, write, and add and subtract.

 

All through my childhood, I've enjoyed reading. Schools have changed, or I was extremely fortunate in the schools I went to. (3 different elementary schools, 1 jr. high, 3 different high schools) In all these schools the teachers didn't use some standardized curriculum. We had to read the standards (Tom Sawyer, To Kill a Mockingbird, The Grapes of Wrath etc.), but, we didn't take actual tests on the books. Every literature teacher I had would discuss the book and if you actually read the book your participation in the discussion was enough to earn you a good grade. In the final high school I attended, rather than given books to read, we were split into groups and given authors to research.(My group got stuck with Joseph Conrad. :yucky: ) The idea was to allow the students variety, but, at the same time, remain within the school system's guide. I guess, I was also fortunate, in that, most of my literature teachers allowed for debate. Many of the standard reading materials were open to interpretation, especially in high school. None of my teachers forced their own interpretations on us. They stated their point of view and gave us the opportunity to argue a different point of view or interpretation of the works involved.

 

Over the years, my tastes have changed. I used to read fantasy my favorite of course, The Lord of the Rings series and the Dragonbone Chair series, science fiction, my favorite authors bing Frank Herbert and yeah, H.G. Wells, and horror or rather Stephen King until he got silly. Then there was a period, in which, I read espionage novels.(If your a fan of spy novels, a must read is an oldie but goody: 39 Steps. Now, I've pretty much stopped reading fiction and read history and true crime books. There are some authors I have an affinity for and will always enjoy their works, be it poetry or literature, i.e. Edgar Allen Poe and Shakespeare.