Stormcloaks or Imperials?

[Ashven]

Put me on the chopping block, and expect me to buy you a drink? I think not. Ulfric's not perfect but he's honorable and his goals are respectable. Either way I think the outcome will be bad, so I might as well take the side that didn't try to tickle my throat with an axe.

[chanchan05]

Put me on the chopping block, and expect me to buy you a drink? I think not. Ulfric's not perfect but he's honorable and his goals are respectable. Either way I think the outcome will be bad, so I might as well take the side that didn't try to tickle my throat with an axe.

 

I see this argument all the time, but personally I don't buy this as a reason. It was wartime and all that stuff. Its not like if you get in the middle of a war even today, they'd set you free if your name wasn't on the wanted list. Not to mention that this was set in what is roughly the equivalent of early medieval times in the real world, so this shouldn't really be something to be surprised about IMO.

[MrBuio]

Put me on the chopping block, and expect me to buy you a drink? I think not. Ulfric's not perfect but he's honorable and his goals are respectable. Either way I think the outcome will be bad, so I might as well take the side that didn't try to tickle my throat with an axe.

 

I see this argument all the time, but personally I don't buy this as a reason. It was wartime and all that stuff. Its not like if you get in the middle of a war even today, they'd set you free if your name wasn't on the wanted list. Not to mention that this was set in what is roughly the equivalent of early medieval times in the real world, so this shouldn't really be something to be surprised about IMO.

 

Why isn't it valid? Are you saying that putting you up for execution isn't a valid reason to hate the ones doing it? And if you are super pro-Imperial before, how did you manage to get in the situation anyway? Mind you that the Imperials are short on men and want you to join them later on, meaning executing a pro-imperial potential soldier would seem backwards. If I were pro-imperial, I'd still not have any love for them wanting to execute me.

 

All in all, it's just a player choice. Motivations are each and his own, and not really possible to be non-valid.

 

-----

I am a Stormcloak with my current Khajiit archer character. For sure, Stormcloaks are a bit narrow-minded regarding outsiders, but I'm the hero Dovahkiin Khajiit that help their cause and free their lands. They are about to learn to change some of their ways.

[Tom2681]

It amazes me how many people choose to join the imperial legion.

Bunch of oppressing parasites dressed in red (bad guys color), trying to rule a people who don't want them, banning religious freedom, selling the land to the high elves, bit by bit.

 

On the other edge of the sword, you've got a bunch of racist and violent barbarians who just want to rule their own land. Fine by me, guys. You've got my support.

 

If and when the Thalmor come for Skyrim, they'll be facing real men with beards and battleaxes. Not some useless roman bureaucrats.

 

I suppose it would be fun to play the bad guy at some point.

But I always find myself joining the Stormcloaks.

+ As a Stormcloak officer, I get to wear a bear on my head. It's worth destroying the Empire just for that.

[terzho]

A lot of people call the Stormcloaks racist and stuff but I don't see it. The " Extreme racism" is a drunk guy mouthing off every now and then. There are no prision camps or slavery. The Dark Elves get the Grey quater because they are refugees and there is no room in the city. Even Elves like Niranye have managed to buy good property by working hard. Any race can join their army and rise up in the ranks as shown by the Player Character.

[Feanoro]

^This. As for Ulfric being an ass, you may or may not like him, but he's far from being overconfident. If you listen to his discussion with Galmar the first time you enter the Palace of Kings you'll see that he has doubts about fighting (he keeps asking Galmar why he fights with him) and that in the end he fights for all the useless Nord deaths there have been under the Empire's rule, he fights to eliminate the Imperial and Thalmor oppression in Skyrim (Thalmor kidnap and torture whomever they want and the Empire just gives them the nod while they bribe the richer Jarls into giving them their resources) and finally he fights because that's all he knows how to do.

 

It's a very human element in him that somehow many people miss. Is Ulfric powerhungry? Sure, but I bet you my 600k gold septims that so was Talos and many other Nord leaders at the time and look what they achieved.

 

On the flipside many people see Tullius as the good guy in all of this but let's not forget he was the one who told that Imperial captain to just chop off your head with the rest of the group in the beginning and that he basically just goes wherever he's told and kills indiscriminately until every "enemy of the Empire" is put down. Don't know about you, but that I don't like being in that side, that's pretty much the Nazi officer excuse right there.

 

As for the racism, as other people have said, it's all hearsay pretty much. Also, you're all forgetting to include context into the whole thing. If you remember Morrowind, the Dunmer in there had some of the MOST RACIST COMMENTS EVER! Now that they're all refugees they still stick to their ways but complain all the time. Sure, every town has a few drunken/enraged/angry Nords who vent their frustration towards any strangers but that doesn't make the Stormcloaks racists.

 

Finally, the Empire we see in this game has not only accepted a shameful peace treaty with the Thalmor, but has alienated and lost Hammerfell, was forced to lose Elsweyr and Black Marsh. Considering Morrowind is pretty barren and has Argonians invading it as well, the great "Empire" we speak of is pretty much Cyrodiil, Skyrim and High Rock, and this is before you even start playing the game.

 

Of these, Skyrim is clearly angry at the Empire and Amaund Motierre, the treasonous plotter, is from a very wealthy family in High Rock. So how's that for Imperial unity?

 

Militarily, people keep saying Skyrim can't face the Thalmor alone. I'm sorry but there is no proof of this. How do you think Tiber Septim/Talos FOUNDED the Empire? What kind of army do you think he had under him at the time? Not to mention the Nord ass-kickings of all manner of Mer and other inhabitants of Skyrim when the Nords apparently returned from Atmora? Also, from a strategic point of view, to get to Skyrim, the Thalmor need to conquer and hold either Cyrodiil or Morrowind or High Rock or Hammerfell. But to get to Morrowind they'd have to go through Black Marsh, from where the Argonians kicked them out and launched their own invasion of Morrowind. Similarly, holding Hammerfell seems equally unfeasible, as the Thalmor have been kicked out of there too and it's known that Hammerfell is troublesome to hold. This also eliminates High Rock as a launching pad for Skyrim (because you have to hold Hammerfell to invade High Rock).

 

Thus the Thalmor would have to conquer Cyrodiil completely to invade Skyrim, and by that time they'd be going north while surrounded by provinces that hate their guts. Even so, they'd be facing some of the most fierce warriors in Tamriel that don't just fight for money in a Legion, in an Empire that doesn't care much for them, but for their own lands, freedom and religion. Not an easy thing to pull off, even for the Thalmor.

[chanchan05]

Put me on the chopping block, and expect me to buy you a drink? I think not. Ulfric's not perfect but he's honorable and his goals are respectable. Either way I think the outcome will be bad, so I might as well take the side that didn't try to tickle my throat with an axe.

 

I see this argument all the time, but personally I don't buy this as a reason. It was wartime and all that stuff. Its not like if you get in the middle of a war even today, they'd set you free if your name wasn't on the wanted list. Not to mention that this was set in what is roughly the equivalent of early medieval times in the real world, so this shouldn't really be something to be surprised about IMO.

 

Why isn't it valid? Are you saying that putting you up for execution isn't a valid reason to hate the ones doing it? And if you are super pro-Imperial before, how did you manage to get in the situation anyway? Mind you that the Imperials are short on men and want you to join them later on, meaning executing a pro-imperial potential soldier would seem backwards. If I were pro-imperial, I'd still not have any love for them wanting to execute me.

 

All in all, it's just a player choice. Motivations are each and his own, and not really possible to be non-valid.

 

-----

I am a Stormcloak with my current Khajiit archer character. For sure, Stormcloaks are a bit narrow-minded regarding outsiders, but I'm the hero Dovahkiin Khajiit that help their cause and free their lands. They are about to learn to change some of their ways.

 

I'm not saying its not a valid reason. No need to get worked out on that. What I'm saying is that generally, that event is not something I would base my decision on PERSONALLY. You were caught with the rebels. If military now ambused a caravan of rebels on a road, where it happened to be that a number of locals were on the road as well, you can be sure as hell that they'll be caught in the cross fire and maybe get imprisoned as well.

 

I don't know where you live, but in my country where there are a bunch of rebels at the southern end, we hear this kinds of stuff in the news about a number of people supposedly innocent according to relatives but were scooped up along with rebels in a military raid or ambush. So I wouldn't really hold it against the Imperials.

 

FWIW, I did not base my decision to join sides on whatever happened in Helgen, I was just stating an opinion that the almost-beheaded event was not a decision maker for me.

[chanchan05]

Militarily, people keep saying Skyrim can't face the Thalmor alone. I'm sorry but there is no proof of this. How do you think Tiber Septim/Talos FOUNDED the Empire? What kind of army do you think he had under him at the time? Not to mention the Nord ass-kickings of all manner of Mer and other inhabitants of Skyrim when the Nords apparently returned from Atmora? Also, from a strategic point of view, to get to Skyrim, the Thalmor need to conquer and hold either Cyrodiil or Morrowind or High Rock or Hammerfell. But to get to Morrowind they'd have to go through Black Marsh, from where the Argonians kicked them out and launched their own invasion of Morrowind. Similarly, holding Hammerfell seems equally unfeasible, as the Thalmor have been kicked out of there too and it's known that Hammerfell is troublesome to hold. This also eliminates High Rock as a launching pad for Skyrim (because you have to hold Hammerfell to invade High Rock).

 

Thus the Thalmor would have to conquer Cyrodiil completely to invade Skyrim, and by that time they'd be going north while surrounded by provinces that hate their guts. Even so, they'd be facing some of the most fierce warriors in Tamriel that don't just fight for money in a Legion, in an Empire that doesn't care much for them, but for their own lands, freedom and religion. Not an easy thing to pull off, even for the Thalmor.

 

According to the WiKi and the book Arcturian Heresy, TIber Septim conquered the Empire with a joined Nord and Cyrodillic army, since he was operating out of Cyrodiil during his conquering years as general to Cuhlecain the king of Falkreath and West Cyrodiil (from whom he stole the monarchy via murder). He faced off a combined force of Nords and Bretons at Sancre Tor. Then he used the combined might of the human kingdoms (High Rock, Skyrim, Cyrodiil and Hammerfell) to go up against Morrowind and the Elves. He did not conquer the entirety of Tamriel with just a band of screaming Nord warriors

[Lessabos]

Bunch of oppressing parasites dressed in red (bad guys color)

 

Everybody knows that best guys are dressed in yellow :thumbsup:

[stars2heaven]

snip

 

I agree with many of your points here. I think people often overstate Ulfric's bad side. He makes very good points during his talk with Galmar and his speech is quite compelling. That's why my first character joined them. But as you mentioned, Talos founded the Empire. So it seems to me, or atleast my second character, that the Empire BELONGS to the Nords in a way. It is the product of their god that they so highly revere. If I were a Nord I wouldn't want to seperate from the Empire because it's being run badly, I'd want to take back control of it and restore it to it's former glory from the days of Talos. That is why my second character joined the Imperials.