Stormcloaks or Imperials?

[stars2heaven]

A lot of people call the Stormcloaks racist and stuff but I don't see it. The " Extreme racism" is a drunk guy mouthing off every now and then. There are no prision camps or slavery. The Dark Elves get the Grey quater because they are refugees and there is no room in the city. Even Elves like Niranye have managed to buy good property by working hard. Any race can join their army and rise up in the ranks as shown by the Player Character.

 

Well I believe there is a book that describes the experiences of a Dark Elf in Windhelm. It seems pretty clear from it that his people are not welcome in the least. But it isn't just the stormcloaks. It seems to be something expressed by the majority of Nords no matter their allegiance. The stuff about magic being for weak elves as well as light armor. Then of course there are the non-elven races who are treated even worse. Most aren't allowed into the cities at all, and there are few exceptions in the case of argonians.

[Royce Marcotte]

I chose the Stormcloaks for several reasons the top reason being I didn't like the Blackbriars they are a bunch crooks and had the support of the Empire. So I felt the Stormcloaks would change the government in that city. I didn't like the Thalmore and the Emprie had a treaty with them. After the embassy incident I was wanting to get rid of them. Restricting religion isn't a great thing to do. If the people wanted to worship Talos then let them.

That's it, I'll take the side of the Empire next time just to see if anything really changes. I'm sure it just doesn't matter.

[diamonddragoniori]

I see many people sided with the stormcloaks because they believe their cause is just......according to game lore...the nords namely ulfric and his father....did the same thing to the forsaken who's worship was banned in place for the 9 divines....as what the thalmor were trying to do to the nords.....

 

i side with the legion and the imperials all the time...because in exception to the black briars possibly....all the other jarls who replace the stormcloak supporters are much more saner...not paranoid and obsessed with putting down elves & anything to do with magic...and would actually work for the people....besides the jarl one who is replaced by maven...is a patsy....

 

 

maven runs riften anyways....and the jarl is being taken in by her "adviser" and maven....

 

Edited January 24, 2012 by diamonddragoniori

[Ferodaktyl]

From my current char's point of view, taking stormclock's side would only weaken what's left of the empire, and would only serve the thalmors. So, being an drunken orc mercenary with a cynical attitude, i reluctantly joined the imperials just to maintain the status quo between a highly chauvinistic faction ( the altmers generally) and a corrupted, profit driven one ( imperials). Also by not choosing any faction it would serve both Thalmors and Alduin. I'd rather like that each of Tamriel's provinces would be independent, but in the current state of affairs, independence would only be a prelude to a new xenophobic altmer empire.

So, although my sympathies go to the stormcloacks, my allegiance goes to the empire.

[Lachdonin]

Any race can join their army and rise up in the ranks as shown by the Player Character.

 

In terms of this, you have to understand that nothing the PC does is in any way 'normal'. If it was, a Khajit PC would have to sneak into the city like the rest of the cats. Concessions are made in terms of authenticity for gameplay purposes, and probably because programming all those responces would kill Bethesda's programmers.

 

As a PC, you can also walk into the opposing capital, after picking a side in the Civil War, without a problem. You can cavhort with zombies in the middle of town, talk to Vigilants while brandishing Daedric artifacts and violate indecent-exposure laws (And good cold-weather sense) with impunity. Gameplay does not equate to authenticity by a long shot.

 

Still, the Stormcloaks are not 'Super Racist'. At least not in terms of the Nords in general, or really the world. Markarth is barely a step above a slave-state, none of the Cities allow Khajit inside the walls and there is a nationalistic distrust, if not revulsion against Elves.

 

We're led to beleive, from various materials throughout the games, that this mentality is not just limited to Nords either. We know, from Morrowind, that the Dunmer tend towards rampant racism. We know the Altmer do. The Infernal City indicates that both the Argonians and Khajit, within their own provinces, don't like other races. In sort, every province is Racist in Tamriel.

 

The big differance, of course, lies in the philosophy of the Empire. That is, everyone has a contribution to make to the Empire, regardless of race. Its a self propigating philosophy, in that the Empire maintains the unity of the provinces so the united provinces can maintain the Empire. In such a way, the Empire is the least racist of the entities, however its predominantly Cyrodiilic leaders have their own brand of racism. That being, of course, that their culture is superior, and must be spread to other cultures. I suppose its more appropriate to call them ethnocentric than racist.

 

When comparing things against the Empire as a while (not just Cyrodiil), yes, the Stormcloaks are racist, but that is born more out of a Skyrim-centric outlook. Other races come from elsewhere, and thus don't have Skyrim's intrests at heart. Thus, other races are bad.

 

As i've said in the past, the whole Empire vs Stormcloaks arguement boils down to two questions. What's more important to you. Skyrim, or Tamriel? And what time-table, short or long? If Skyrim/Short term, the only possible answer is Stormcloaks. If Tamriel, short and long term, its Empire. Skyrim, long term, is something of a grey area, but i tend to say it leans more towards Stormcloaks.

[Nerblus]

i choose the side that goes against the Aldmeri Dominion (reminds me of some fascists back in time...like in ww 2)...So i side the imperials.

And yeah, Ulfric is a puppet of the thalmor... more, i cant stand they'r racism (and again i find similarities with ww 2 and a lot other real life puppets... guns to the children...), not me, no.

[David Brasher]

A lot of people have talked about how if Skyrim breaks away from the Empire, then the Empire will not be able to withstand the Aldmeri Dominion. My idea may not be a very realistic one, but this is a video game. It is already unrealistic.

 

My idea is this: Sic the Dragonborn on the Aldmeri Dominion. Single-handedly, or with any troops he or she cares to to lead, the Aldmeri Dominion could be toppled and they would sue for peace.

[Rooker75]

+ As a Stormcloak officer, I get to wear a bear on my head. It's worth destroying the Empire just for that.

 

It's hard to argue against that.

[terzho]

Any race can join their army and rise up in the ranks as shown by the Player Character.

 

In terms of this, you have to understand that nothing the PC does is in any way 'normal'. If it was, a Khajit PC would have to sneak into the city like the rest of the cats. Concessions are made in terms of authenticity for gameplay purposes, and probably because programming all those responces would kill Bethesda's programmers.

 

As a PC, you can also walk into the opposing capital, after picking a side in the Civil War, without a problem. You can cavhort with zombies in the middle of town, talk to Vigilants while brandishing Daedric artifacts and violate indecent-exposure laws (And good cold-weather sense) with impunity. Gameplay does not equate to authenticity by a long shot.

 

Still, the Stormcloaks are not 'Super Racist'. At least not in terms of the Nords in general, or really the world. Markarth is barely a step above a slave-state, none of the Cities allow Khajit inside the walls and there is a nationalistic distrust, if not revulsion against Elves.

 

We're led to beleive, from various materials throughout the games, that this mentality is not just limited to Nords either. We know, from Morrowind, that the Dunmer tend towards rampant racism. We know the Altmer do. The Infernal City indicates that both the Argonians and Khajit, within their own provinces, don't like other races. In sort, every province is Racist in Tamriel.

 

The big differance, of course, lies in the philosophy of the Empire. That is, everyone has a contribution to make to the Empire, regardless of race. Its a self propigating philosophy, in that the Empire maintains the unity of the provinces so the united provinces can maintain the Empire. In such a way, the Empire is the least racist of the entities, however its predominantly Cyrodiilic leaders have their own brand of racism. That being, of course, that their culture is superior, and must be spread to other cultures. I suppose its more appropriate to call them ethnocentric than racist.

 

When comparing things against the Empire as a while (not just Cyrodiil), yes, the Stormcloaks are racist, but that is born more out of a Skyrim-centric outlook. Other races come from elsewhere, and thus don't have Skyrim's intrests at heart. Thus, other races are bad.

 

As i've said in the past, the whole Empire vs Stormcloaks arguement boils down to two questions. What's more important to you. Skyrim, or Tamriel? And what time-table, short or long? If Skyrim/Short term, the only possible answer is Stormcloaks. If Tamriel, short and long term, its Empire. Skyrim, long term, is something of a grey area, but i tend to say it leans more towards Stormcloaks.

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say its a choice between Tamriel vs Skyrim becase let's think about it for a second. The Aldemeri dominion only wants to war against the Human races. Eleswyr and Valenwood joined the Aldemeri Dominion willingly and let's face it, are better off. The Argonians of Black Marsh left the empire and are also better off since they own a majority of Morrowind. Hammerfall have shown they can hold off on their own and had a right to leave the empire as they pretty much got sold out with the majority of their lands being planned on being given away. So this leaves us with a weak Cyrodil, a half unwilling-opressed Skyrim and High rock. If skyrim stays with the Empire they get their resources taken away, aren't allowed to openly worship their God and have to wait around for Cyrodil to eventually rebuild. Skyrim by itself is stronger then a Skyrim getting leached off of by a weak Cyrodil. So it's not really Tamriel vs Skyrim. It's more whether you still care about Cyrodil or you want a strong Skyrim. Who says that Skyrim by itself can't hold off against the Aldemeri Dominion. They don't have to lose resources to Cyrodil so they can focus on themselves.

 

Maybe when Cyrodil gets their act together and rebuild they can make an alliance with skyrim on Skyrims Terms rather then forcing them.

Edited January 25, 2012 by terzho

[Rooker75]

Eleswyr and Valenwood joined the Aldemeri Dominion willingly and let's face it, are better off.

 

The way I read it, the Thalmor engineered a coup in Valenwood, installed a puppet government and have been merrily slaughtering any Bosmer who don't like it (example: Malborn's family). And the Khajit were tricked - something to do with the moons disappearing and reappearing (I'm a little hazy on what that's all about).

 

The Argonians seem to have done well for themselves though, counterattacking into Oblivion during the crisis and then invading Morrowind. They're no puppet of the Thalmor or the Empire. Good for them.