SHAUN! (Spoiler Warning)

[EyeShotFirst]

Finally got around to saving Shaun...I know, it's been ages since the release and I probably didn't need to be modding and making my settlements so balling. Upon finding "Shaun" and siding with the Institute...I can't help but feel a bit of disappointment with how unfulfilling and how much of an afterthought synth Shaun is. He just sort of hangs around at Sanctuary and says the same handful of sentences. Occasionally he asks me to give him random things. I liked the Wazer Wifle, but Shaun...the McGuffin of Fallout 4...the whole reason to go through all I went through...is less interactive than Trashcan Carla.

 

Hell, the kids you adopt in Skyrim feel more like your children. What I'm getting at is it would be neat if you could do more with Shaun. Have him follow you. It would be such a great feature if he was a companion. Be kind of like The Road, just a father and son surviving. It seems there aren't really any mods for Synth Shaun...I can shoot baby Shaun nukes.

 

I was also thinking it would've almost been a real interesting angle to have played through Synth Shaun's perspective. To have found out at some point in the game that you are a Synth. Or perhaps just made that plot point for the Wanderer. Would've been kind of like The Final Cut of Blade Runner. Anyway, I'm probably not the first to complain about this, but I feel like Shaun is an afterthought. Bethesda does this quite a bit, I've noticed. Finally fighting Alduin after becoming hardened by the dungeons of Tamriel was a joke. Finding your Father in 3 was kind of unfulfilling as well. Not saying I wanted to bond, but it just seemed like the goal wasn't as rewarding as the quest.

 

 

{Edit} I realize this isn't in the spoiler thread...sorry :C

Edited April 14, 2017 by EyeShotFirst

[Fatalmasterpiece]

Unfortunately you have discovered the disappointment at the end of the rainbow that a lot of us did with FO4. It's a great game, i'll play it again and again but the ending in it's multiple variants is almost an afterthought.

 

There has been a lot of theories about the PC actually being a synth or some kind of clever plot twist behind it all. Unfortunately Bethesda didn't have anything so interesting in mind when they finished the story. This is also how all the companions feel throughout their relationships. Once you finish their quests and max their affinity, for the most part you are "done" and they become static, repeating dolls.

 

I guess as with all Bethesda games, it's not about the destination but the journey.

[Moraelin]

Well, I'd say the idea has been even floated by Bethesda in Far Harbour that your character may or may not be a synth with just some incomplete, in fact even very minimal, memories of some pre-war guy or gal.

 

But my personal piece of evidence is this: in both FO3 and New Vegas, the story is that VATS is some assisting software that runs on your pip-boy. In fact, you even have a perk that explicitly says you reprogram the pip-boy to reduce AP costs (basically to get a lock faster), and has the icon to go with that. Now granted, there was no VATS before FO3, so it's Beth rather than ye olde gods on their black isle that came up with that. But Obsidian actually has some of ye olde Black Isle guys, and they went with that too.

 

Now, though, consider this: your FO4 character can (and is told to) use VATS BEFORE finding the pip-boy. I.e., effectively you run that app in your head.

 

You know who can run pre-war software in their heads? Yeah, synths, as shown in Emergent Behaviour. And you know who gets implants and software specifically dealing with targetting? Yeah, coursers do.

 

So, yeah, the incredibly survibvable PC may in fact be a prototype courser.

 

And it would actually explain quite well why Shaun has exactly zero emotional attachment to his sole surviving parent. His pet project is to see how long until you get killed. Not if, mind you, just how long. All the way to pitting you against Kellogg, their cybernetically augmented super-assassin. It makes a lot more sense if you're an experimental next-gen courser, is all I'm saying.

[Moraelin]

As for the OP... Shaun's perspective may or may not be what you think. He may actually have Father's brain contents.

 

Consider this:

 

- that kid can build a legendary effect, something that even at skill 4 you can't actually do. That kid is basically level 5 in science, or basically post-grad level. You can't be a post-grad in science with the brain of a 10 year old, because you're not at the formal thinking stage yet at that point. That kid really has the memories of an adult in him, not those of a 10 year old. Now I don't know if it's specifically Father's brain, but...

 

- Father doesn't give a flip about anyone in the institute, or even the institute itself. He never pleads that you spare anyone or anything or even the whole institute, if you talk to him when you attack the institute. And he most certainly shows no sign of ever caring about synths. Yet he makes it his dying wish (in any ending) that you take care of that one child synth. WTH? Why is that one synth important to him?

 

- But why would he do that, especially given the whole attitude towards synths? Well, he's dying of cancer and fast. The doctors in the institute explicitly can't save him. No matter how little he thinks of synths, his only choices are (A) game over, end of the line, or (B) transfer his mind into a synth and live. People tend to forget their principles when the other choice is death. Self-preservation is the most primal instinct.

 

- But why a child synth and not a copy of himself? Well, think about it. In the Institute he'd still be a disposable slave, and sooner or later scheduled for a mind-wipe. And outside of the Institute, almost everyone would want him dead. But if he can get the most powerful person in the commonwealth as his devoted protector, hmm, that could work.

[EyeShotFirst]

Great insights from all. It's interesting how I felt more of a connection with the companions in New Vegas. Take the character of Boone. There was something rewarding about fighting the Legion with him. Even though it was back to the hard life that was the Mojave wasteland after all was said and done, I felt more like I'd went on a journey with him. In Fallout 4, Piper has been my main companion for 98% of my play-through. After I maxed out the affinity for her, she might as well be settler number 4 in Sanctuary. There was a great lack of the level that New Vegas gave you with the companions. I loved sifting through the destroyed caravan's with Cass. I loved seeing the Brotherhood through Veronica's perspective.

 

Unfortunately, I've yet to play the DLCs...So, it might not be prudent to judge the game so harshly, but I felt more connected to buggy vanilla New Vegas on the PS3. That was the hardest thing about 4, was caring. It's a beautiful game, and it's so well done...but I feel so removed from story, which isn't a good thing for an RPG.

 

Back to Shaun, I feel that Father may have put more of himself into the kid as well. Sadly, Bethesda didn't play up any of that brilliance. I'm still pretty miffed that Shaun didn't have more of a presence in the game. Hell, Red Dead Redemption, as much as I hated the son...I felt like there was a chemistry between the 2 characters.

 

I hate to sound like I'm shitting on the game. I never consider any great game to be perfect. I've loved pretty much every Bethesda release I've played. Anyway, in a game that deals with the prejudices of A.I., I think the A.I. should be more nuanced. Going back to things like Blade Runner of the Artificial Intelligence movie, I probably am expecting a bit much. It's very hard to have a world so big and not make it feel so empty. Mafia 2 was gorgeous and I loved driving around, but if you weren't playing the liner story, you felt alone. Rockstar probably does it better than anyone, but Bethesda has more of a freedom to roam, and I prefer the lore of Fallout and Elder Scrolls. Rockstar games also still feel pretty linear, with GTA V breaking the mold...albeit the only real branches coming at the very end of the trail. But I feel like they captured humanity so well. It might've been overblown satire, but it felt real.

 

Anyway, I'm rambling.

[Moraelin]

Well, yeah, that's really the main issue. It's stretched pretty thin. It's not that it doesn't have content, mind you. IIRC, it has more dialogue lines than Skyrim and NV COMBINED, for example. But yeah, they stretched that to also cover more NPCs, more quests, more of everything, so it kinda ended a big thin pancake. An MA sized pancake, in fact :tongue:

[Fatalmasterpiece]

Minor spoiler Far Harbour

 

 

A good example is Valentine who meets his brother in Far Harbour. FH is essentially one long quest centered around Valentine and synths but as a result, Valentine never changes at the end of it. He doesn't get a cool new weapon, ability, appearance change... nothing. When he meets his brother, the two exchange dialogue and Valentine makes some comments. Other than that, it's fairly empty.

 

 

 

They really needed moments that pushed the NPCs to their limits, made you go "wow". They do approach that with Danse when

you find out he is a synth and he is kicked out of the Brotherhood

but he never gets dramatic. I expected him to break down crying, yelling, outraged but all he does is sternly express his disappointment. Furthermore, nothing about his appearance changes.

 

In short, it lacks depth.

[Moraelin]

Well, in Danse's case, I suppose it may be -- like many other things in the game -- intentionally left unclarified exactly what's with him.

 

One thing most people seem to utterly fail to consider, although it may actually be WHY his behaviour was made so ambiguous -- is that Danse may actually be an infiltrator. Yes, he's all altruistic and devoted and all, but here's the thing: ALL synth infiltrators err on the side of being MUCH better people than the originals they replace. That's, in fact, how the Goodneighbour guards detect them, and also for example why Warwick's family starts to suspect him. He turned from flaming a-hole, into the most caring and devoted family father you've ever seen. His wife gets suspicious because he actually treats her nicely all of a sudden. He's super-nice all while being very aware that he's a synth double.

 

I guess that's... really, the institute's inept kind of infiltration. They're utterly unaware, in their ivory basement, of how the world above works. And it's hinted to you by the Railroad, as to why they goad synths into a memory wipe: none of them actually knows how to function in the world above, or at least not without standing out like a sore thumb. On a supermutant. They're just as easy to identify by coursers too, because without a brain-upload from someone who's actually lived above ground, they don't act like normal people.

 

And so we return to Danse... Well, think about it. Yeah, like the good scribe says, you've never met a more altruistic and devoted soldier. And sure, if you think about it, he's over-the-top devoted and all. But... that kinda is what infiltrators DO, innit?

 

 

Anyway, I DON'T KNOW if Danse is an infiltrator or not. But I think that's kinda the point in this game. Things are left at the point where you don't really know whether something is black or white, so you don't have an overwhelming reason to take option A instead of option B. If they told you up front that, yeah, option A is about punting babies at a wall, and option B is all unicorns farting rainbows utopian, the vast majority of players would just pick the unicorns and rainbows option every time.

 

But, as I was saying, that seems to have kinda failed in Danse's case, since most people don't seem to like to even consider that even a huge a-hole like Maxson may or may not actually have a point now and then. You know, even a broken clock is right twice a day, and all that.

[jjb54]

* Shaun - I was seriously let down, and was torn when ...

 

 

I found out that Synth Shaun will always and forever be 10 years old. He is unable to grow and grow older as a person. Imagine being stuck in a 10 year old's body forever!

 

 

 

The above is not a spoiler, or shouldn't be by now ... but I put it there just in case. The other point with Synth Shaun is - he was supposed to be the " son that the sole survivor lost out on. But there is:

 

 

 

ZERO father - son relationship to be had, if you choose to take Synth Shaun. Just Synth Shaun builds stuff and stays at what ever settlement you dump him in.

 

 

 

Danse - That just bothered me on so many levels. It too was a seriously incomplete story line, IMHO.

 

Nick - This too was a let down. I was hoping ( foolishly ) that Beth would allow the character of Nick to be opened more ... more ' self aware ' ... or something ..... But one goes through that Quest Line only to come out the other end, going, " Why? "

 

Bottom Line:

I wished Beth had spent a lot more time on Character Development: Danse - Nick - Deacon for starters. instead of giving us Fallout 4 meets Sim City and a bunch of Snowflakes as ' citizens ' of the Settlements. Hell, I would have been happy to see Strong developed more, which would have been nice.

 

They started some great potentials of characters, but apparently Charley Brown was right: " There is no heavier burden than a potential. "

[robhartman9]

I keep calling Piper.... Veronica. I'm not sure what that says about the games or the NPC's. FNV is my favorite out of the series even if the DLC Dead Money was extremely annoying. I hate it when they take your stuff away.

 

I think Father did transfer himself into Shaun but he became one dimensional so as far as I'm concerned it didn't work. My favorite part about Shaun is telling Proctor Ingram he is a synth and he should blow up real good. The voice acting for that part was quite good Ingram really seemed shocked, horrified, somewhat confused and conflicted.