CK need steam to work and only available through steam

[MrTastix]

The offline mode is rather pointless as a whole, however.

 

You have to be online and connected to Steam to install a game. Before you can play a game in offline mode you must've ran it at least once in online mode, otherwise nothing happens and Steam simply spews out an error.

[KHCloud]

The offline mode is rather pointless as a whole, however.

 

You have to be online and connected to Steam to install a game. Before you can play a game in offline mode you must've ran it at least once in online mode, otherwise nothing happens and Steam simply spews out an error.

that doesnt make it pointless tbh, it clearly states on the box of Skyrim that an active Steam account and an internet connection is required to install and regester the game, the same rules can most likely be used for the Mod Tools for Skyrim, makes sense . . .

[hunteriv4]

The offline mode is rather pointless as a whole, however.

 

You have to be online and connected to Steam to install a game. Before you can play a game in offline mode you must've ran it at least once in online mode, otherwise nothing happens and Steam simply spews out an error.

It's kind of nice for playing Skyrim when on an airplane, or when the internet goes out. It's not really designed for people without an internet connection, it's designed for unreliable internet connections.

 

As for the poster who lives out in the middle of nowhere with no internet (why would you do that!?), do you get cell phone service? If so, you can fairly easily tether a Sprint phone (or some carrier with unlimited data) and download smaller mods and updates. If you have to go into the library, you could also download the creation kit and any mods you want and then bring your computer back...the game will still run in offline mode.

 

Lack of internet access really isn't that great of an excuse any more. If you absolutely cannot get internet access EVER on your PC you can buy the retail version of the game, install it (I'm fairly sure it will install offline but then requires Steam to run), then crack it. You can get a cracked exe from a legal game copy site (yes, cracked exe files for backing up games you own is legal) and put in on a flash drive. This is assuming you have a desktop; if you're playing on a laptop, go find a library or Starbucks, activate it, and play in offline mode. Easy. Still, it seems a bit...suspicious...that someone without internet access is worried about access to mods considering you need the internet to get the mods in the first place.

 

As for the Steam workshop...you don't have to use it. At all. I don't get why people are bothered by this. They didn't remove any normal modding functionality (in fact they added extra functionality by allowing .ini changes to be incorporated into mod packs). You can still get files from here or other modding sites and install them the same way. The only things you'll lose are mods that are loaded exclusively to the Steam Workshop, but hey, that's up to the mod creator. They don't have to upload their mods here or at all if they don't want to.

 

And let's face it, if they did implement some "Steamworks Only" requirement someone will hack that requirement out. It's virtually impossible to lock down non-server based resources (and even server based games often can have their client modded). They're doing this stuff to make it easier to mod the game, not harder. It's a win/win situation for smart game creators; the game lasts longer, meaning people are more likely to buy it months or years down the road, and they get free ideas of how to improve their next game based on the most popular mods. Not to mention using them as a recruiting tool for new talent, which Valve in particular is famous for.

 

Valve lives off mods. Counter-strike, Left4Dead, Portal, Team Fortress, Day of Defeat...if you look at all the Valve games sold on Steam the only games that aren't Half-Life mods are the Half-Life games themselves. Discouraging mod creativity is the last thing these guys are going to do. If anything, Steamworks is their plan to get MORE people into modding, for free, in order to do something that LONG TERM will pay off WAY more than charging people for mods or forcing them into their system.

 

What is the biggest competition for Valve right now? Besides EA, who frankly is so far behind with their Origin system they aren't really a threat other than taking some big EA titles to themselves? Consoles. What's one of the biggest advantages PC games have over consoles (well, besides lacking discs, load times, texture resolution, advanced graphics technology, control precision and versatility, and online capabilities)? Mods. PC gamers can alter their games, which is why you still have Oblivion being sold to PC gamers but hardly ever to console gamers. And let's face it, the guy who buys Oblivion for the PC is potentially getting WAY more bang for their buck.

 

If Valve can make modding more mainstream they could potentially take a big bite out of the console market. It's a perfect time, too, right as the current consoles are deep into their twilight days. There's no reason for them to risk alienating PC gamers by making things more restrictive when they can gain a potentially huge console market by taking out the technical complexities of modding and giving it to the less tech savvy.

 

I don't see the reason for the complaints. Heck, even pirates shouldn't be complaining because let's face it; it's only a matter of time before pirates get the creation kit, and they don't really need it to leech mods anyway. Seems like a lot of paranoid effort for something that's potentially a huge boost to PC gaming, which I'm all for, because more PC gamers means less crappy console ports.

 

I'm still waiting for my action games that actually use multiple keys rather than just letting me equip stuff to my left and right mouse buttons like a console tard. Yes, I'm looking at you Kingdoms of Amalur, and although you are fun, I'd much rather have a World of Warcraft-style action bar where I hit an ability and activate it right there rather than basically use two abilities and only switch for certain types of enemies.

 

Sorry, /rant off.

[MrTastix]

As for the poster who lives out in the middle of nowhere with no internet (why would you do that!?)' date=' do you get cell phone service? If so, you can fairly easily tether a Sprint phone (or some carrier with unlimited data) and download smaller mods and updates. If you have to go into the library, you could also download the creation kit and any mods you want and then bring your computer back...the game will still run in offline mode. [/quote']

 

I live with my parents until about next month, then I move out to an area with internet (hopefully, at least). Up until then, I don't have too much of a choice.

 

The library connections here don't allow you to login to Steam, most likely because of the bandwidth Steam downloads can suck up. The polytech here does, but you have to be a student to login to those (no longer am, course finished long ago).

 

As for Steam? TL;DR: If you want to use a digital distribution service (like Steam, Origin, Direct2Drive, etc) to buy your games then that's fine, you should know you'd have to install the services software and download the game. But you should not be expected to do this for a copy you brought from a retail store, such as GameStop. It's completely unacceptable.

 

Also, the "lack of an internet connection" is a very valid excuse. It's valid simply because the majority of the world do not have access to the internet, believe it or not. And, even if they did, why should we be forced to use a service companies like Valve (and any developer who uses Steamworks) wants us to?

 

The most recent games I've brought (F.E.A.R. 3, Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Skyrim) have all needed Steam. The first one I didn't know when I brought it. Skyrim I did but found a crack for it beforehand, so it was alright. DXHR was a major exception as I got the CE for that since I'm a massive Deus Ex fanboy (so that's my own fault). All of these are retail copies that I brought at EB Games NZ (owned by GameStop US).

 

I have no problem with the Steam service in and of itself, I have issue with developers who decide to use Steamworks (or any other Steam-related service) as the only means of distribution. These games do tend to say they need online activation (in very tiny print, might I add) but that's hardly the point.

 

I've used Steam to download games before, and all that is fine. I chose to buy those games online so I accepted the fact I'd have to download them. But since the large majority of video games being released these days also happens to be made with Steamworks, people are no longer given that choice and, frankly, it's a very poor and misguided business model.

 

The only reason I see for publishers and developers to use Steam is because they're still clinging to the archaic principles of DRM when most gamers know that no DRM system has ever worked nor will they ever work. So long as people exist to crack it, DRM will be cracked, and so long as DRM exists, legit customers will be punished for it.

[Syco21]

I would just like to point out the obvious, that pirates really have no reason to complain about DRM. It does not affect them. It only affects those of us that purchase the game.

[MrTastix]

I would just like to point out the obvious, that pirates really have no reason to complain about DRM. It does not affect them. It only affects those of us that purchase the game.

 

Exactly, which is why it boggles the mind as to why companies spend millions of dollars each year researching and developing new DRM technologies, only to have their money wasted in what can be as quick as days or even hours after the software's release.

 

You can always download cracked copies of the game whilst buying an actual copy of the game so that you still support the developers but avoid the messy DRM. I don't know how the courts would feel about this though (even though the developers aren't really losing out on this) and you'd also still be stuck with no updates and the possibility of malware due to infected downloads.

 

I honestly don't think publishers are so stupid that they believe DRM actually works. I prefer to think that they know damn well DRM sucks but to keep their idiot shareholders happy they keep using it.

 

But frankly, if you're investing money into any company or into any R&D project (like into DRM) then wouldn't you actually spend a little bit of time researching whether the crap you're spending money on is effective?

[Jaguarnaut]

Will mods made with the new CK require steam to be running in order to work??? That would be , er .....

[hunteriv4]

I would just like to point out the obvious, that pirates really have no reason to complain about DRM. It does not affect them. It only affects those of us that purchase the game.

 

Exactly, which is why it boggles the mind as to why companies spend millions of dollars each year researching and developing new DRM technologies, only to have their money wasted in what can be as quick as days or even hours after the software's release.

 

You can always download cracked copies of the game whilst buying an actual copy of the game so that you still support the developers but avoid the messy DRM. I don't know how the courts would feel about this though (even though the developers aren't really losing out on this) and you'd also still be stuck with no updates and the possibility of malware due to infected downloads.

 

I honestly don't think publishers are so stupid that they believe DRM actually works. I prefer to think that they know damn well DRM sucks but to keep their idiot shareholders happy they keep using it.

 

But frankly, if you're investing money into any company or into any R&D project (like into DRM) then wouldn't you actually spend a little bit of time researching whether the crap you're spending money on is effective?

That's an easy one...it makes CEOs and shareholders happy. DRM is a check in the box for "tried to prevent piracy!" Whether or not it works is irrelevant; their bosses, who likely know about as much about computers as the U.S. Congress, are happy and they don't have to try and explain the uselessness of it all.

 

I don't think the entire motivation about Steam games is piracy, though. It's also convenience. The developer can upload patches, DLC, and other content directly through Steam without having to have users go through download pages or connect to FTP servers. Not everything developers do is designed to make our lives miserable, even if sometimes is can seem that way. Sometimes they just want to make things easier on their customers, and when they look at sales, the majority of customers buying games have at least a semi-reliable internet.

 

I'm sorry you found the one place on Earth with a library, a university, and no Starbucks. Or airport. Or cell phone service. You can check out this tool if you're in New Zealand to find a decent internet access point; from what I understand they are greatly expanding the 3G network there, and you can get free tethering capabilities on Android phones and Jailbroken iPhones with a little research. Also see if a decent proxy or TOR can get you around the library restriction on Steam.

 

You're right, the entire world doesn't have internet access, but I have a hard time believing that the majority of the world with computers capable of running games like Skyrim or Deus Ex doesn't. The internet is such an integral part of what makes computers useful it seems kind of like saying that the majority of people have TVs but not access to Cable or Satellite.

 

Considering how many games are now becoming free-to-play and online only, and being widely successful, the fact that some users aren't going to be able to use their service is unfortunately rather minor in the grand scheme of things, especially since internet access is only going to become more and more available as time goes on. So, like DRM, publishers have to work much harder to convince their bosses to cater to the powerful-computer-but-no-internet-access crowd, especially for a U.S. company primarily focused on U.S. customers, the vast majority of which have access to some sort of online connection.

 

This isn't a problem limited to Steam, it's a problem in the entire games industry. At least you have the option of cracking; I doubt many console gamers without internet access can bring their XBox into the library to get day 1 DLC.

[Braddus]

I would just like to point out the obvious, that pirates really have no reason to complain about DRM. It does not affect them. It only affects those of us that purchase the game.

 

Exactly, which is why it boggles the mind as to why companies spend millions of dollars each year researching and developing new DRM technologies, only to have their money wasted in what can be as quick as days or even hours after the software's release.

 

You can always download cracked copies of the game whilst buying an actual copy of the game so that you still support the developers but avoid the messy DRM. I don't know how the courts would feel about this though (even though the developers aren't really losing out on this) and you'd also still be stuck with no updates and the possibility of malware due to infected downloads.

 

I honestly don't think publishers are so stupid that they believe DRM actually works. I prefer to think that they know damn well DRM sucks but to keep their idiot shareholders happy they keep using it.

 

But frankly, if you're investing money into any company or into any R&D project (like into DRM) then wouldn't you actually spend a little bit of time researching whether the crap you're spending money on is effective?

 

Just throwing my 2c in here; DRM should not impede legitimate buyers. Ever.

DRM is becoming so invasive and constricting it's probably pushing people to go pirate games because it's less hassle.

And should legitimate buyers download cracks to detach games from Steam; it will inadvertently fuel the piracy trade.

 

Agreeing with these two; pirates have no need to complain about DRM since it doesn't affect them. Something about that doesn't sound right. >.>

In my opinion, DRM is giving people more reasons to pirate or detach games. Although in their (developers/company) defense there really isn't a clear sure fire solution to prevent it anyway..

More towards the topic of the thread; having the CK be required to come from Steam is actually a decent idea to deter piracy, in theory at least. (Just did a quick search and naturally there are detached kits floating around.)

 

Makes you wonder if DRM is really necessary at all.

 

(Am only voicing impartial perspectives; plz dun ban meh.)

 

EDIT: Ohay; missed your part about being in NZ. God the internet sucks here, right?

Another personal reason why I dislike 'online to play' DRM's.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Braddus

[zzjay]

Is that free right?