We have a name! And a Q&A session with Tannin regarding the new mod manager.

[twizzOr]

In response to post #49982557.

Tannin42 wrote:

Hi Tannin,

Great news and thanks for the update. One question: Will we be able to hide mod files in an easy, non-destructive way from deployment as we do in MO? To me, this is invaluable.

Thanks!

 

I put it on our ToDo-List.

Awesome. Thanks!

[Kenrox]

"Vortex" remembers me the nexus logo...

 

 

HOW STRANGE IT IS UH?

[Tannin42]

"Rely on NMM-like vfs": So, one more question. Sorry to play the MO fanboy (especially since there is a lot more people who are much more fanatics than I am).

 

Let's say I'm a mod author, or tinkerer, who don't only edit already existing files, but need to add new ones to a mod's "folder".

If I do this with NMM's current way of handling things, this is extremely cumbersome, as I have to create the file while modding (with the "target mod" installed), then copy-paste said file back in the NMM mod's folder (which I have to guess since those are just IDs, but I already expect Vortex to be more convenient in that regard), then uninstall the mod through NMM and re-install it again so the software properly recognize that my new file belong to this mod and is properly linked with the one already in the game folder when it'll come to future updates, uninstallation, or profile change.

 

Are we going to see a convenient alternative to this awful behavior ?

 

Do you have a suggestion how this could work? It shouldn't be too hard to avoid the last step (uninstall/reinstall) with Vortex.

Say you create the file, copy it to the Vortex mod folder (which is still an ID because we have to ensure it's unique even when you install multiple versions of the same mod), Vortex can figure out that the files are the same and turn the one in the game directory into a link.

But Vortex will always need your help to determine which mod a new file belongs to, it can't guess that.

[lued123]

In response to post #49980887.

FatherGuse wrote: .. and another thought/question ..

Will you guys ever be able to implement a "sort" feature, or better yet, a "blocking" feature on files so that we can exclude files (MODs) that have become obsolete/abandoned?

I mean, it's really nice that "MOD X" is the all-time most-beloved MOD ever created for a game, but if it's not up-to-date with the current build of a game, or may have been made obsolete (or broken) by a Bethesda Update (cough cough) and the MOD Author has no intention of ever updating it, it would be nice to click a filter button/box and just never see that MOD.

I know "veterans" and "experts" of some of these games instantly know this stuff and have memorized which MODs to avoid due to these issues, but for us "neophytes" and folks who are just getting into a particular game .. well .. that sort of "avoidance" makes life much more enjoyable and might even avoid having to use that "Purge" feature in the first place.

.. you know, maybe make it a requirement for the MOD Author to specify the game release/build info or requirement (like DLCs) and/or release date/series on upload to Nexus (would provide that sorting criteria right up front).

I think a new tag could be used for filtering mods that are:
obsolete
abandoned
implemented by Bethesda
broken by Bethesda
whatever else
Problem is I wouldn't know what to call the tag so it gets all of that across. Maybe just "Don't use this"? Edited May 10, 2017 by lued123

[lued123]

I don't dislike the name Vortex. I would prefer something more utilitarian like Nexus Client, but that's just me.

At any rate, I can't wait to try this thing out. It'll be so nice to have something quicker than NMM that isn't out-of-date or missing useful conveniences like "download with manager".

[indycurt]

With all due respect, I'm not so sure about the name "Vortex". I can see the jokes coming already: " I uploaded my mod and it disappeared in the "Vortex". "I had 75 mods downloaded, and now they are gone! What happened? A: They are lost in the "Vortex"." The mere definition of the word "Vortex" indicates chaos and destruction. A tornado is considered a "vortex".

[Hackfield]

In response to post #49982472.

Tannin42 wrote:

So, does this mean Vortex is going to retain copies of mods we download? So for example, getting a new version of say SMIM from Skyrim is a massive influx of data. Is it going to be able to handle those large files without issue? And can it properly dump them when I want them removed, either because of an upgrade, or because I no longer want the mod?

 

Not sure I understand the question. When you install a mod you basically have 3 steps:
- download the mod
- install the mod (into a separate directory)
- enable the mod

At this point you have the original archive from nexus which you are free to delete to free up space or not.

You have the installed mod. If there was an installer, this is only the selected options. No files here get deleted or replaced by other mods

Finally, you have a bunch of links to the files in the game directory.

 

You can disable the mod and it will remove the links and of course you can remove the mod altogether.
I'm not aware of any problems with large files, SMIM didn't cause any trouble in my testing.

I think what he meant it's, when you download a mod with NMM, the zip file is stored in the "mods" folder of NMM, when you install it, it decompresses the file into a folder and creates the symlinks, but the original zip file is still in the "mods" folder.
At this point, a mod is actually using twice the space needed (zip file + decompressed folder, really noticeable in large mods like SMIM or texture mods that can reach easily a GB or more).

In MO you could delete the downloaded zip file to save space and the content of the mod would still be installed, but in NMM, if you delete the downloaded zip file, NMM removes the mod completely.

[BullBars1]

In response to post #49983522.

lued123 wrote: I don't dislike the name Vortex. I would prefer something more utilitarian like Nexus Client, but that's just me.
At any rate, I can't wait to try this thing out. It'll be so nice to have something quicker than NMM that isn't out-of-date or missing useful conveniences like "download with manager".

I'm in agreement about this name choice.

It should still have Nexus in the name so searching for a mod manager for the first time user shows a familiar name in the web search.

It would be a Nexus all game mod management system of some kind.

[neeher]

Vortex by Megadeth is an awesome song, just sayin lol

[Kesta]

 

"Rely on NMM-like vfs": So, one more question. Sorry to play the MO fanboy (especially since there is a lot more people who are much more fanatics than I am).

 

Let's say I'm a mod author, or tinkerer, who don't only edit already existing files, but need to add new ones to a mod's "folder".

If I do this with NMM's current way of handling things, this is extremely cumbersome, as I have to create the file while modding (with the "target mod" installed), then copy-paste said file back in the NMM mod's folder (which I have to guess since those are just IDs, but I already expect Vortex to be more convenient in that regard), then uninstall the mod through NMM and re-install it again so the software properly recognize that my new file belong to this mod and is properly linked with the one already in the game folder when it'll come to future updates, uninstallation, or profile change.

 

Are we going to see a convenient alternative to this awful behavior ?

 

Do you have a suggestion how this could work? It shouldn't be too hard to avoid the last step (uninstall/reinstall) with Vortex.

Say you create the file, copy it to the Vortex mod folder (which is still an ID because we have to ensure it's unique even when you install multiple versions of the same mod), Vortex can figure out that the files are the same and turn the one in the game directory into a link.

But Vortex will always need your help to determine which mod a new file belongs to, it can't guess that.

 

 

Thanks for the answer.

 

First thing before answering properly:

 

(which is still an ID because we have to ensure it's unique even when you install multiple versions of the same mod)

 

 

It's ok for it to be an ID, as long as there is a decent way to find the mod's folder (typically, right click in the installed mod in the UI and select "Open Mod's Installation Folder"). Right now, with 2 or 3 thousands of "mods" installed, it is absolutely impossible to find which one is what with NMM.

 

 

 

 

As for "how it could work", my first post was a bit rushed, there is actually 3 scenarios with the current NMM implementation that I'd like to see improved. The first two were "natural" with MO. The last one is for an alternative to the lack of "overwrite".

 

1) A file is added directly to a mod's folder without going through the installation process.

We'd still want the file to be treated properly, i.e. put in the game's directory, and properly removed upon mod's deactivation.

Typical use case: Adding third-party ressources to a wip mod without having to open the game's directory (which can get ridiculously cluttered in some folders) / Pulling from your mod's git repo (happen at least once in a week for beyond skyrim devs, and it is probably the same for any other large-scale project teams).

Suggestion: An icon or other visual indicator in the UI that there is files in the mod's directory which aren't present in the game's directory, allowing to "refresh" with a single click (+validation?).

 

2) A file is deleted from mod's directory.

The expected result would be that the file is also deleted from the game's directory, but the technicalitiies regarding conflicts obviously make it impossible. I honestly don't have a suggestion for this one, when I need to do this I de-activate the mod in NMM beforehand, and I'm pretty sure I'll do the same with Vortex.

Typical use case: Trimming down a huge texture pack to keep just the part you're interested in.

 

3) The first example I gave in my original post, a file is created "for" a mod, but directly in the game's directory.

The mod author will then want to put it back in the proper mod's directory.

Typical use-case: Daily modding.

Suggestion 1: Have access to a panel that show all folder/files in the game directory which are not coming from installed mods. From this list, files/folders can be added to an existing mod (right-click -> add to... -> select mod, or drag & drop). Providing an additional config file in .gitignore style to filter what's seen in this panel would be awesome. And pretty much needed anyway to ignore the original game's files.

Suggestion 2: ("Hidden" option so regular users don't go f***** up there install) Set a mod as "current wip". At this point, a snapshot of the current game's directory is taken. From this point, every new file added to the game's directory is automatically considered to be in this mod's folder. (either "live", or even just when the "current wip" option is deactivated).

Edited May 10, 2017 by Kesta