companions mods for fallout 4 being far to "good guy-ish"

[TheGadget1945]

Heather Casdin likes it when you kill synths, thinks the Railroad are dicks and swears frequently. Her and Cait are about the nastiest companions you can get.

[Gruffydd]

Not saying there shouldn't be such followers. Just suggesting that, since they'd by their nature be a very odd lot, something more than Bethesda's "here's 200 caps, now tag along until you love me" would be nice. Otherwise, in the FO world, someone who likes mass murder and theft is basically a raider, and outside of a contrived NukaWorld setting, there aren't a lot of reasons for a raider to start following you that don't end badly, so if they're going to function as normal followers, and not trigger aggro from every non-psycho NPC you meet, some kind of interesting story would be warranted, yes?

[llamaRCA]

so if they're going to function as normal followers, and not trigger aggro from every non-psycho NPC you meet, some kind of interesting story would be warranted, yes?

 

No one's arguing that a follower shouldn't have a more complex story, motivations or express them better in game. But there is a very big difference between an actual Raider and someone who just doesn't care what you do. Neutral does not equal evil. One could argue that the Institute is as evil as Raiders for wiping out the BOS, or the Railroad is evil for killing synths that don't agree with them and the BOS, etc. Good to evil is a spectrum, not two ends with no middle.

[Gruffydd]

 

so if they're going to function as normal followers, and not trigger aggro from every non-psycho NPC you meet, some kind of interesting story would be warranted, yes?

 

No one's arguing that a follower shouldn't have a more complex story, motivations or express them better in game. But there is a very big difference between an actual Raider and someone who just doesn't care what you do. Neutral does not equal evil. One could argue that the Institute is as evil as Raiders for wiping out the BOS, or the Railroad is evil for killing synths that don't agree with them and the BOS, etc. Good to evil is a spectrum, not two ends with no middle.

 

 

I wasn't talking about neutrals, I was talking about any follower who would like or love such activities. One for the "players who want to kill and muder most things," as the OP put it.

 

Some of the followers already in the game are effectively neutral. They love or like certain anti-social activities (some more than others), and only dislike, not hate, others. They're balanced between the light and the dark. Neutral. Others, not so much. There's definitely a leaning toward good aligned followers, with such as Preston, Codsworth, Nick, Curie, and Piper, for example, all being mostly good aligned, and not an appropriate choice for a would-be scourge of the Commonwealth. But other followers, like Hancock, Cait, and MacCready, endorse a range of anti-social activities. X6-88 doesn't care about murder or theft, and only dislikes drug use. Strong is outright psycho, even reacting favorably to cannibalism. And of course Dogmeat always loves you, but he really doesn't count.

 

Dislike is easy to counter. Just do some stuff the person likes, and you're good to go. I often have Cait along. My character generally tends not to be an ass to people, which Cait occasionally dislikes. However, some lockpicking, a bit of the old ultraviolence (against hostiles), some crafting, or a bit of running around nekkid, and she's good to go again.

 

I like that you actually have to consider your follower's personality when having them tag along. It's a good thing. Without that, it's just an excuse to have some extra storage space and a second gun. If an NPC truly doesn't care what you do, why are they with you? What motivation do they have to stay? Neutral isn't lack of caring about things. Anyone who simply doesn't care about anything is dead inside. (Why they are could be an interesting story, but that's not the point here.) Neutral is having mixed opinions, liking some things that might be considered good, and some that might be considered anti-social or even evil. Even a supposedly neutral merc who will follow anyone around if they're paid enough should have lines they won't cross, and things they like or dislike more than others. Otherwise, see above re: storage space and a gun.

 

Any character who can't manage to balance out a dislike for murder, drugs, or theft is probably going so overboard toward the dark side that only darker followers would continue to tag along. That's what I thought the OP was asking for, given the aforementioned desire for followers for "players who want to kill and muder most things," and that's why I said that I hoped there would be interesting story to explain why they're on the dark side, and why such a follower would continue to stay with the character. I'd like to see what someone could come up with. Most of the stories as to why a follower joins are shallow. "Here, have some caps." "Hey, tag along." "Sure, you can follow me." There's not a lot of depth. Why are ones from opposing factions not more hostile toward each other? Why don't more of them get upset when you seduce them and then run around seducing all of the others as well? Why do so many of them fall in love so quickly? Why don't they in general have more to say?

 

I'd love to see some deeper interactions with followers (I'm currently trying out Heather, for example), and the kind of villain who would have no issues tagging along with someone who regularly goes on a theft and murder spree across the Commonwealth while hopped up on chems, if done right, could be very interesting. Done wrong, though, as I said, it's yet another walking backpack with a gun.

[llamaRCA]

 

I'd love to see some deeper interactions with followers (I'm currently trying out Heather, for example), and the kind of villain who would have no issues tagging along with someone who regularly goes on a theft and murder spree across the Commonwealth while hopped up on chems, if done right, could be very interesting. Done wrong, though, as I said, it's yet another walking backpack with a gun.

 

 

I agree with this (and everything you wrote). It's a shame there isn't any truly evil thing the player does in FO4 that has substantial impact on the story and the gameworld so that responding to those actions could be better expressed. I miss the karma system, which I didn't think I'd ever say, but in the absence of a pure and true villain (like Caesar in NV or the slavers in FO3) it's hard to define any truly evil activity that the player does. Killing some random traders isn't impactful. Killing of Diamond City also not impactful. It's all so meh in that regard.

[Moraelin]

Hmm, well, while the idea is interesting, you have to consider that actually most of us don't really like to play the evil side. Even if forced to choose between a bunch of flaming a-holes, we end up rationalizing why the one we chose isn't REALLY a flaming genocidal a-hole.

 

I for example DISLIKE Cait and MacCready for their negative reaction to any kind of kindness. A companion which actually is full-tilt chaotic evil? They'd get parked somewhere out of the way or outright uninstalled in a jiffy.

 

So, yeah, that's one thing to consider. Are you going to put a lot of work into something where you excluded some three quarters of potential players from the start? Not saying you shouldn't. Just, well, be aware that that's what'll happen.

[Deleted2433418User]

It´s hard to Roleplay a game that is so infected with the Correctness -virus that any and all followers are basically from the cast of iCarly or any other disney tween show.. even Cait that shows potential to be a,somewhat okay follower goes all Rainbows and Unicorns on you if you detox the lass.. it´s booooring and annoying and basically i just hate it..only followers in vanilla that don´t care what you do is Dogmeat,and that owergrown chihuahua is about as useful as nail in the ass .. Heather Casdin is truly neutral.. she has no problems with drugs,excessive violence,pilfering and whatever you want to do.. you treat her nice and she treats you nice.. that makes me wonder why Bethesda didn´t make all the followers like that from the start.. oh,wait,must´nt offend someones feeeeeelingzezzzz.. that must be the explanatin

[llamaRCA]

I for example DISLIKE Cait and MacCready for their negative reaction to any kind of kindness. A companion which actually is full-tilt chaotic evil? They'd get parked somewhere out of the way or outright uninstalled in a jiffy.

 

Right? I wouldn't travel with someone like that either, but it's kind of moot in FO4, imo, because we can't be all that evil (or at least the game doesn't have any way to express it). It would be more interesting in a game like FO3 or NV where there is a clear, evil choice you can execute and if you want to do a playthrough as the bad guy you might want to have someone along who either supports you or doesn't care as much as say, Piper or Danse who would lose their minds if you were a slaver in FO3 or followed the legion in NV.

[Gruffydd]

 

I for example DISLIKE Cait and MacCready for their negative reaction to any kind of kindness. A companion which actually is full-tilt chaotic evil? They'd get parked somewhere out of the way or outright uninstalled in a jiffy.

 

Right? I wouldn't travel with someone like that either, but it's kind of moot in FO4, imo, because we can't be all that evil (or at least the game doesn't have any way to express it). It would be more interesting in a game like FO3 or NV where there is a clear, evil choice you can execute and if you want to do a playthrough as the bad guy you might want to have someone along who either supports you or doesn't care as much as say, Piper or Danse who would lose their minds if you were a slaver in FO3 or followed the legion in NV.

 

 

That's pretty much why the only companions I don't have are Strong and Gage. They're too dissimilar from how I am playing my character.

I think the reason I often have Cait along instead of others who aren't as grumpy when I am at all nice to someone is the others all seem to be doing okay. Especially with how I've set up my settlements, where I've RP'd that Piper has a fancy new office/press, Curie runs a clinic, Nick has a new office for his investigator business, etc. Cait, on the other hand, still seems adrift. Other than putting her on guard duty or picking mutfruit, what is there for her? By hauling her around with me, I'm RPing that I'm showing her there is​ another way, that she doesn't have to be so broken anymore.

Of course, in the actual functionality of the game, none of that is going on. Alas.

For those who even the current system of having to consider what the companions like or dislike is too much, though, or who want to go full-on dark side, they can always craft their own robot companions who truly don't care what they do.

[Moraelin]

Well, amoral is ok. I like Ada as much as the next guy. I can live with them not cheering for a good deed. It's when they start protesting any good deed -- except when THEY require it -- that it starts to rub me the awfully wrong way.

 

I mean, as far as the story goes, MacCready's kid would have died if I hadn't taken time out of my busy evil schedule to risk my life to get him a cure. And he'd probably have gotten his skull vented before that if I didn't take the time and risked my life in an assault against an entrenched, well armed and well trained Gunner group. Cait would still be coughing up blood and probably get to keel over soon, if again I didn't take the time to assault some well entrenched group of Gunners to get her detoxed. But do they learn anything from it? Nope. They still act as if I'm the antichrist if I don't outright kick some settlers' cooking pot over.

 

Well, here's an idea, sir Chucklenuts: enlightened self interest. You NEED other people's help, so you help them. Just pissing in everyone's coffee pot isn't even evil, it's stupid. It's the cartoon carricature of evil, not something that actually works. Even if you're gonna live at the expense of others, you STILL stand to gain more if you convince some minions that what you're doing is for the greater good, or that you're tough but fair, etc, than just pissing everyone off just because you can. If you just piss everyone off and never do anything for anyone else, well, see how well THAT went for Colter. Yeah, turns out that even if you want to be an evil raider boss, you still need that arrangement to work for them too.