"A Path into Twilight" - The End of the Thieves Guild

[sherbetsu]

Warning: Thieves Guild spoilery spoilers follow - leave now, abandon all hope, etc...

 

Advance Apology

Wow, this ended up being way more involved than I thought it would be when I sat down to outline it.

 

This questline proposal incorporates "Player independent"-style quest elements - entire quests can progress "off-stage" without player involvement.

 

Overview

A quest fork that follows the standard questline but results in the Thieves Guild's dissolution.

The standard Guild quests are understood to be proceeding - either off-stage without the player or with player involvement in an alternate quest.

Mercer and Karliah's plans proceed - but without Dragonborn's skill/luck/destiny they simply insure the guild's demise.

Mjoll the Lioness would fit well as the initiator/guide of this quest line as she attempts to free Riften from the Guild.

• Her extensive dialog could provide material for creating new dialog
  
• An allied quest line could involve removing Maven from power in Riften (even if she's the Jarl)
  

Stages

"Chance Arrangement"

• Player rejects Brynjolf's offer, gets the option to embark on a path that breaks the guild's influence in Skyrim.
  

"Taking Care of Business"

• Is done off-stage by another guild member
  
• Player helps victims? They become information sources for the rest of the quest chain?
  

"Loud and Clear"

• The guild already failed this one, this is "strike one" with Maven
  
• Failure means guild remains ignorant of Karliah's connection with Goldenglow
  

"Dampened Spirits"

• Player saves Honningbrew Meadery via a variant "Dampened Spirits" quest.
  
• Failure to take over Honningbrew means guild remains ignorant of Karliah's connection
  
• This is "strike two" with Maven
  

"Scoundrel's Folly"

• Without Honningbrew info - this quest never happens. Karliah remains undiscovered.
  

Player's rejection/obstruction of the guild creates an adversarial relationship

• guild attempts to sabotage player
  
• possibly link the game's automatic Dark Brotherhood attacks to Thieves Guild action?
  

Death of Aerin

• Players interference with "Dampened Spirits" results in Mercer ordering retribution against Mjoll. Aerin dies.
  
• Mjoll determines that Mercer must die
  
• This Event could be off-stage - player meets Mjoll in Aerin's house and he is dead.
  

#Mercer Learns the Truth#

• Need to devise an alternate way for Mercer to discover that Karliah is going to be at Snow Veil.
  
• This quest/event could be initiated by Maven. Even though it fails ("strike three" with Maven) it reveals Karliah as guild antagonist.
  

#Maven Loses Patience# - decides the Guild is no longer a reliable partner

• Begins distancing her operations from Guild
  What would this action look like - mercenaries?
  Hiring former Guild members into her organization thinking that it's just Mercer's management that's the problem?
  
• Alternative to distancing is that Maven wants Mercer replaced by more effective leader
  This option could allow Maven to be the initiator of later quests involving finding and removing Mercer.
  This option would probably introduce a delay in the ultimate dissolution of the Guild while Maven tries (and fails) to shape up the guild.
  

"Speaking with Silence"

• Karliah's attempt to capture Mercer Frey goes awry.
  Results in murder of a guild member at Snow Veil (body persists in final room and has lootable basic thieves gear)
  
• Snow Veil is open after this stage.
  

"Hard Answers"

• Karliah has Gallus' journal and gets it translated
  
  • Simple version - Enthir is assumed to find someone besides the player to get Calcelmo's research
    
  • Advanced version - Enthir initiates conversation with Player, offering payment for Calcelmo's research
    
  • If quest rejected, quest moves forward with simple version. ("Guess I'll find someone else")
    
  • If accepted, plays out as mostly stock quest
    

  [*] Discovery of Mercer Frey's theft of guild assets shatters the guild's cohesion.

  Members begin moving out of the Ratway.

"The Pursuit"

• Could be initiated by Mjoll based on rumors of Maven abandoning the Guild and desire for revenge on Mercer.
  Mjoll believes his house might have evidence to find him and bring him to justice.
  or
  
• Could be initiated by Maven in an attempt to remove Mercer from leadership.
  
• Player breaks into Mercer's house
  quest plays out as mostly stock version except Eye of Falmer plans point directly to Irkingthand
  
• Plans might show evidence of Mercer fleeing Skyrim after Eyes are acquired.
  

"Trinity Restored"

• Happens off-stage, no rumors about this.
  
• Karliah inducts Brynjolf and another guildmember (Vex?) as Nightingales
  

"Blindsighted" - replaced with "Trinity Destroyed" variant of Irkngthand quest

• Player can take followers - Mjoll would be a natural choice (not sure if spinning blade traps would kill them)
  
• Brynjolf, Karliah and inductee Nightingale can sometimes be glimpsed up ahead.
  They sneak past everything leaving the Player to deal with Falmer
  
• Never see Mercer (he's ahead of Brynjolf/Karliah)
  
• Final Room -
  Before Player arrives, Mercer uses Subterfuge power. Brynjolf and other inductee die.
  As Player enters, Mercer executes finishing move on Karliah
  
• Player deals with Mercer
  
  • Kill him
    Retrieve Skeleton key, Eyes of Falmer, other stuff
    
  • Let him buy you off?
    What could he possibly offer?
    Repercussions with Mjoll?
    

  [*] Loot all the bodies

  get unenchanted Nightingale equipment (Enchantments dissolve if not possessed by a Nightingale)

  [*] Room floods, exit thru roof

#Maven Gives Up# - no longer protects the Guild

• Maven finally gives up trying to work with the guild
  
• Riften guards begin to move against the guild. (introduce regular radiant quests to clean out the Ratways)
  

"Darkness Returns"

• Would not happen
  
• Not sure what should happen to Twilight Sepulchure
  Not much loot
  Only reason to exist is for granting Nightingale Powers
  Entrance collapses when Nightingale Trinity is killed?
  

Aftermath

• The guild ceases to exist as an organization in Skyrim.
  
• The Ratway becomes a dungeon of independent bandit-types.
  
• Select former guild members integrate into Riften society or move to other cities
  
  • Tonilia - takes over Brynjolf's merchant stall
    After personal quest (TBD), gives player a piece of advanced guild armor
    
  • Niruin - Archery trainer, should be preserved somewhere
    
  • Delvin Mallory - needed for Dark Brotherhood quest
    
  • Assume most members would be flee Riften without a protector (if you wanted Sneak and Pickpocket trainers you would have joined the Guild)
    

Possible other quest lines:

• Other Cities request help to suppress thievish elements.
  
• "Blackbriar's Must Go" - break the family's power.
  

Implementation Strategies

The questline could be chopped (by prior design) into a couple major release versions

• V1) The player gets rumors/notes updating him as the various new quests proceed
  This would allow dealing with the aftermath issues of each modification separately before diving into the quest rewrites
  Live dialog could be replaced by NPCs updating the player via notes that explain what rumors are going around.
  A generic "Hey, look at this" dialog would be all that was needed.
  
• V2) Create the alternate quests the player could participate in.