Moral traps and ambiguities

[BrettM]

As I recall, the abuse wasn't just verbal. Grelod was physically abusive as well. In addition, she was deliberately preventing the adoption of any of her charges and then throwing them out on the street -- uneducated and with no resources -- on the day of their majority. Talk to Balimund's apprentice, who is a product of Honor Hall. He got lucky in that Balimund was willing to take him on, but he's still a pretty sad excuse for a human being.

 

In a Skyrim hold, there are no regular courts, licensing laws, child-welfare agencies etc. that you can call down on the head of someone like Grelod to get her shut down. You can't report her to the guards and get her thrown in jail, since there are no laws against what she's doing. Your options are limited.

 

Unfortunately, the game limits the options even further. Administer street justice or leave the kids with no justice at all. I would have more respect for the devs if you could at least intimidate Grelod into leaving town, administering a few bruises if necessary.

 

The sensible option, though -- especially if you're a thane -- would be to petition the jarl as an advocate for the children. After all, it is her job to hear petitions from her subjects and provide what passes for justice in their society. How hard would it be to convince the jarl that Grelod is doing great harm by releasing uneducated, abused street rats into the hold, leaving most of them with little choice but to make their way down to the ratway and take up a life of crime? If nothing else, the jarl certainly has the power to banish Grelod, or at least forbid her from operating an orphanage.

[CuliacanMexico]

As I recall, the abuse wasn't just verbal. Grelod was physically abusive as well. In addition, she was deliberately preventing the adoption of any of her charges and then throwing them out on the street -- uneducated and with no resources -- on the day of their majority. Talk to Balimund's apprentice, who is a product of Honor Hall. He got lucky in that Balimund was willing to take him on, but he's still a pretty sad excuse for a human being.

 

In a Skyrim hold, there are no regular courts, licensing laws, child-welfare agencies etc. that you can call down on the head of someone like Grelod to get her shut down. You can't report her to the guards and get her thrown in jail, since there are no laws against what she's doing. Your options are limited.

 

Unfortunately, the game limits the options even further. Administer street justice or leave the kids with no justice at all. I would have more respect for the devs if you could at least intimidate Grelod into leaving town, administering a few bruises if necessary.

 

The sensible option, though -- especially if you're a thane -- would be to petition the jarl as an advocate for the children. After all, it is her job to hear petitions from her subjects and provide what passes for justice in their society. How hard would it be to convince the jarl that Grelod is doing great harm by releasing uneducated, abused street rats into the hold, leaving most of them with little choice but to make their way down to the ratway and take up a life of crime? If nothing else, the jarl certainly has the power to banish Grelod, or at least forbid her from operating an orphanage.

I don't disagree with anything you wrote, however...

 

The choice here seems to be whether you are of moral inclination to join the Dark Brotherhood or not. Will you murder... for a reason.

 

A strictly 'Good' character couldn't commit murder and won't go any further down that quest path. Other characters with more flexible values will be given other choices.

 

 

Note: I like the option you give, but how many character would take it (as being reasonable) and then never open the Dark Brrotherhood Quest?

[BrettM]

The choice here seems to be whether you are of moral inclination to join the Dark Brotherhood or not. Will you murder... for a reason.

Except that committing that murder is also your only path to destroying the Dark Brotherhood. It doesn't make much real sense, but, there it is. So, will you sacrifice one abusive hag to destroy a whole nest of assassins?

 

Except that's an unfair way to put it for RP purposes, because your character has no way of knowing the long-term consequences of killing or not killing Grelod. That decision must be made on its own merits. If a character is willing to murder Grelod for a reason, it doesn't mean that he must be of a moral inclination to join the DB and murder for hire. Willingness to murder for some reasons =/= willingness to murder for ANY reason.

 

It's really a tangled mess. To me, it would have made more story sense to use Aventius to introduce you to the idea of the Dark Brotherhood, do something non-lethal about Grelod if possible, and then get directed to the Penitus outpost for more information. The commander there could still give your hero the assignment to wipe them out. For less-good characters, the option to simply kill Grelod would still be there, with the same paths to follow that exist now. This structure would give you four options: do nothing, do only good, be morally flexible, or embrace evil all the way.