Total_Carnage Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Before I continue, if for some reason you didn't read the title in it's entirety, there -will- be SPOILERS in this request. If you haven't completed the game or played it to a point where you are satisfied you've learned everything you need to know, do NOT read beyond this first paragraph. You've been warned. ---------------------------------------------- Hey, I'm currently going through my first playthrough of Skyrim and I'm enjoying it endlessly. As I've done with every ES game previously, I've completely ignored the main quest and have instead strived to do a number of the faction quest chains first - I like the idea of a more anonymous person coming forward and getting involved rather than this universally recognised figure. However in doing so I started to come across a lot of scripting and dialogue inconsistences that really took away some of the immersion. The first time I noticed this was not long after I'd finalised the thieves guild chain and had successfully become the Guild Master. I was approached by an argonian in thieves garb who then attempted to rob me. I had the option to say, "Don't you recognise a brother of the guild?" or some such. And I got to thinking... as descrete as the thieves guild is, there's hardly much anonymity to be had about the identity of the actual guild master between the members. I wanted to chastise the idiot by having the option to hurl abuse at him or make some witty belittling remark. Ofcourse keeping the original "brother" option for those who'd prefer that hidden-persona concept. The next major inconsistency that really hauled me out of feeling immersed was progressing with the Imperial quest chain. After having completed the Dark Brotherhood line. Now in the DB line you take out first of all the cousin of the Emperor, then the Emperor himself. And along the way you are -identified- and generally cause an absolute sh*t-storm in Solitude. Things calm down a little ( and through divine providence, I'm able to pay off my bounty in gold coins. GG. ) and i'm able to carry on my business, fulfilling my place as the Listener. Guards will occasionally reference that I was present at the wedding party of the young royal. They'll also occasionally mention that the Emperor was slain. They -also- say something along the lines of "Oh I know you're face. You have dealings with the Dark Brotherhood" or some such. So i'm thinking, alright, in this modicum of reality not everyone is going to know what I look like - there's not exactly motion-capture photography to share my face. So that's cool. But then I somehow... SOMEHOW am able to join the Imperial Legion. And not only that, in doing so, the quest NPCs continuously reference the Emperor. Not one mention of his death. Not even a throw away line. Then there's Hircine. I'm a werewolf. Hunting a werewolf. Does Hircine the Daedric Lord of the Hunt reference this fact at any point? Acknowledge me as his child? Derp, no, and this made me particularly sad. SO putting all that schpeil aside; the point of this thread. I've given you an example of a moment where immersion was totally lost for me because of quest-overlaps. What I'd like to ask is if it's entirely possible to rework any of the flags or dialogue sections that are completely relevant to my circumstance in the game? Now in foresight you'd think that'd be a massive undertaking and rewording of a lot of dialogue - but how many factions actually cross-reference each other like that? Apart from the ones I've highlighted ( and the parts I haven't yet come to experience ) not too much I imagine. Now don't get me wrong. I love this game. I mean LOVE it to pieces, so much so I'm angry at Bioware for releasing ME3 as soon as it is because I want to be able to trawl through Skyrim for god knows how much longer! What I'd just love is for someone to take on the mantle of retweaking some of the dialogue. I realise that there'd be difficulty in the sense that there are voice actors used and I'm not certain how we'd overcome that hurdle in particular, but I'd just love if it were more consistant in it's grand-scheme storyline. A small request with a lot of words behind it, so sorry guys! Hope someone out there has the power <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunder Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Sounds cool - but it would require a shitstorm of modding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Total_Carnage Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Sounds cool - but it would require a shitstorm of modding? I imagine it'd take a lot of flagging-scripting. Option A is active so Option XYZ must play and god knows how many variations of such. But I'm just particularly adverse to things like that that totally take me out of immersion. Hope it is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Total_Carnage Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 No one else share the sentiment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saratje Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I imagine that ordinarily, the Dragonborn left no witnesses and In-Character would have shrouded their face to remain unrecognized. Then again, the player can assassinate the Emperor and his cousin naked if they are in a silly mood so that is where continuity ends. On the topic of the random-event Thief that robs you: * He's not a guild thief, just self-employed, he doesn't wear Thief Guild Armour either (atleast my road-thiefs wear Glass Armour). You could probably just rename the Thief into 'Lone Thief'. [MOD: Extremely Easy. Select the Thief in Creation-Kit and rename him into Lone Thief.] On the Imperial vs Dark Brotherhood issue I'd suggest the following: * You cannot proceed with the quest to kill the Emperor if you are in the civil war, sided with the Imperials, until the civil war is concluded. [MOD:Relatively Easy. Have to meet conditions to continue. This does need some scripting and alias referencing knowledge.]* If you kill the Emperor, but did not start the civil war, you may only join the Stormcloaks. [MOD:Easy. All it needs is that you need to meet the condition that you have not yet reached or completed a certain Brotherhood quest. This could be done by making your faction-status very negative and hostile to the Empire.] -or- * With the Emperor dead, the Imperials pull out of Skyrim. Showing such weakness has rallied the Nords behind Ulfric. [MOD: Harder. You'll need to enforce scripts otherwise executed by the peace talks and copy that behaviour. For example: Whiterun should not be damaged as it was not attacked, yet Balgruf no longer resides here. This takes quite a bit of scripting, creating an (invisible) extra quest which makes these events happen. If you want more flavour, having the Imperials pull out of Skyrim in phases, it'll be a LOT more of scripting. Maybe a riot quest or such to chase them out of the cities.] -or- * Whoever replaces the Emperor sends the Dragonborn a letter of gratitude and pardons the Dragonborn in any and all ways possible. After all the Emperor's successor has been elevated to power through the Emperor's death. [MOD: Very easy. Set all bounties to zero, add a letter, have the courier deliver it with his standard line. This can be done from the console, it shouldn't be much harder as an added condition to the final DB quest or as an invisible follow-up quest.] On guard comments: * Guard comments are entirely Out-Of-Character, more meant as an inside joke and indeed not very roleplay friendly. The easiest option is to remove those lines from the game with a simple mod, so that they only give comments on daily events (such as spotting a dragon, taking an arrow to the knee, yelling at you to put some clothes on, complimenting on your ebony weapons, etc). [MOD: Very easy. There's plenty of mods out there that curb lines from merchants which can get repetitive.] Hircine: * You could make Hircine's spirit persistent with some modding and make him give you radiant quests. Finding a voice actor is preferable, or you can cut, paste and mix his existing audio fragments. He could make you fight other random werewolves to prove your superiority, making it a game of clues where you find a random citizen murdered and have to use your werewolf perks to trace the werewolf that did it into the wild. [MOD: Very difficult. This requires some major modding, scripting and audio work.] -or- * While you are a werewolf, other werewolves will come to attack you as a random spawn on the road. Alternately, hunters come after you and when you survive and defeat them, Hircine's line as used with Sinding will be heared, complimenting you on your skills and giving you a one-week buff or something as a reward. All in all, some things are easier than others, but many things need scripting and that's not my forte. I'm sure some of those bright minds on here can do that, or this can be a GREAT incentive to learn to do it yourself step-by-step while making the game more to your liking. Once you start to master those modding skills, you can easily alter anything else you run into and dislike. Currently, I mod my game to have encountered characters live elsewhere or assume a new role. For example Silvianus who is found living in the sewers near Esbern in Riften has rejoined the legion in my playthrough with some modding, believing that this time the battle is not hopeless and lost. Lydia, Iona and Uthgerd-the-Unbroken have joined the companions after taking each along in a random dungeon raid which they all survived. Illia joined the college of Winterhold and soon the Dragonborn her spouse will spend months at High Hrothgar, to learn the way of the voice and earn the knowledge to use FUS-RO-DAH from there on. It's really pleasing and fun when you get something right and can alter the game just as you like. So can I now take along many more followers, great when all the companions of Jorrvaskr want to work together in a very tough dungeon or quest (they helped me with fighting and luring Odahviing into his trap, until he was released). Give it a try! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korodic Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Before I continue, if for some reason you didn't read the title in it's entirety, there -will- be SPOILERS in this request. If you haven't completed the game or played it to a point where you are satisfied you've learned everything you need to know, do NOT read beyond this first paragraph. You've been warned. ---------------------------------------------- Hey, I'm currently going through my first playthrough of Skyrim and I'm enjoying it endlessly. As I've done with every ES game previously, I've completely ignored the main quest and have instead strived to do a number of the faction quest chains first - I like the idea of a more anonymous person coming forward and getting involved rather than this universally recognised figure. However in doing so I started to come across a lot of scripting and dialogue inconsistences that really took away some of the immersion. The first time I noticed this was not long after I'd finalised the thieves guild chain and had successfully become the Guild Master. I was approached by an argonian in thieves garb who then attempted to rob me. I had the option to say, "Don't you recognise a brother of the guild?" or some such. And I got to thinking... as descrete as the thieves guild is, there's hardly much anonymity to be had about the identity of the actual guild master between the members. I wanted to chastise the idiot by having the option to hurl abuse at him or make some witty belittling remark. Ofcourse keeping the original "brother" option for those who'd prefer that hidden-persona concept. +not every member is familiar with your chapter of the guild, he might not have been able to speak with other members or bother learning current events. The next major inconsistency that really hauled me out of feeling immersed was progressing with the Imperial quest chain. After having completed the Dark Brotherhood line. Now in the DB line you take out first of all the cousin of the Emperor, then the Emperor himself. And along the way you are -identified- and generally cause an absolute sh*t-storm in Solitude. Things calm down a little ( and through divine providence, I'm able to pay off my bounty in gold coins. GG. ) and i'm able to carry on my business, fulfilling my place as the Listener. +you are identified by the imperial agents, you kill pretty much all traces of them in the quest line. They are agents, so I doubt they would spread that kind of info around. Guards will occasionally reference that I was present at the wedding party of the young royal. They'll also occasionally mention that the Emperor was slain. They -also- say something along the lines of "Oh I know you're face. You have dealings with the Dark Brotherhood" or some such. So i'm thinking, alright, in this modicum of reality not everyone is going to know what I look like - there's not exactly motion-capture photography to share my face. So that's cool. But then I somehow... SOMEHOW am able to join the Imperial Legion. And not only that, in doing so, the quest NPCs continuously reference the Emperor. Not one mention of his death. Not even a throw away line. +See the remark above. Then there's Hircine. I'm a werewolf. Hunting a werewolf. Does Hircine the Daedric Lord of the Hunt reference this fact at any point? Acknowledge me as his child? Derp, no, and this made me particularly sad. +True. SO putting all that schpeil aside; the point of this thread. I've given you an example of a moment where immersion was totally lost for me because of quest-overlaps. What I'd like to ask is if it's entirely possible to rework any of the flags or dialogue sections that are completely relevant to my circumstance in the game? Now in foresight you'd think that'd be a massive undertaking and rewording of a lot of dialogue - but how many factions actually cross-reference each other like that? Apart from the ones I've highlighted ( and the parts I haven't yet come to experience ) not too much I imagine. +too much work, hard to find anyone who sounds like the original voice actors Now don't get me wrong. I love this game. I mean LOVE it to pieces, so much so I'm angry at Bioware for releasing ME3 as soon as it is because I want to be able to trawl through Skyrim for god knows how much longer! What I'd just love is for someone to take on the mantle of retweaking some of the dialogue. I realise that there'd be difficulty in the sense that there are voice actors used and I'm not certain how we'd overcome that hurdle in particular, but I'd just love if it were more consistant in it's grand-scheme storyline. A small request with a lot of words behind it, so sorry guys! Hope someone out there has the power <3 + <3 I do agree with what you said, but it is too much of a project to do since it would require voice acting over entire npc's which would be inconsistent in itself. Which would sucks. But I do agree these are things you notice and think about while playing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltadeath93 Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 actually i think it could be done with current voice tweaking lines etc or simply using the silent voice mod and play with subtitles turned on. i do anyway. to see a few comment lines added. i also came across the same issue having done the same thing skipping main story so far and doing the dark brotherhood first. one part of the db you go to delvin in the ratways and sell him an item. then after becoming listener buy from him stuff to rebuild the new db sanctuary. i think doing the thieve's questline now should have some occasional comment crossover. even if its from devlin only about me also being in the brotherhood. since both guilds cross over even more than me killing in solitude. the solitude thing doesnt bother me as much since i wear the db armor and mask when i did the questline. so they didnt see my face no big deal there. but at this point in game i went db now doing companions. i have lucians ghost walking around behind me thru jorvasker praising me being the listener and noone says a thing about it. at liest in the db quest line if you were a werewolf or vampire babette and the dog boy made comments about you being one of them. hell i even saw babette feeding outside whiterun while traveling with farkas back from my trial mission. he didnt say nada. even tho he was right there when she said oh hello listener and we had a conversation about her feeding on random npc's in with a body right in front of us lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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