Darker, Edgier...Some Motivation

[smedennils]

If you want a more challenging (and fun) combat experience you should check out Duke Patriks mod, Heavy Weapon Combat. http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=9886

This guy is a GENIUS when it comes to making combat more challenging and realistic, maybe it has something to do with his 30years experience of real swordfighting combat. His mods for Oblivion was absoluty amazing and I am sure that his Skyrim creations will be just as good. Together with PISE it sure will make Skyrim a more harsh experience.

 

But i do get what you mean about Skyrim beeing kinda flat, that is the direction that Bethesda has chosen for some strange reason, maybe thay try to satisfy everyone but when doing so they end up with a product without orginality and flavour. Thank god for all the modders making this a more colorful and challenging experience. Personally i want more of an Darksouls feel in the game, where even a goblin can destroy you if not being careful, a place that will really scare you when you realise that you had sneaked to far into the dungeon and awoken the beast that slumbered within. Where you have to pick you fights very carefully and plan every move before getting in to action. Where you actually must flee sometimes, or atleast find some way to avoid the problem. And i am not talking about just gulping down an potion of invisiblilty and strolling past my enemys with i smirk smile.

 

This is NOT present in the joke that is called Kingdoms of Amalur, i was really excited when i learned of this game but after 100+ hours playing i was sad to find out that is was just as repetetive and boring like most vanilla rpgs made these days. Sure it was nice to see beautiful fighting animations they created with all its flashy combos, but after a while even that became boring. It would be a great game if they enabled multiplayer, it sure looks, feels and plays like a multiplayer game but running around in that world solo, is like playing an mmo on an empty server.

[thesapien]

More and more I am seeing this same sentiment. I fail to understand many of the decisions Bethesda makes in terms of writing. Inane NPC comments. Assanine NPC attitudes. Annoying, player-skill-based snide remarks. Out and out insults directed at the player.

 

Why? Why, game after game, do they continue to design these intolerable NPC's? There is no good, justifiable reason for this. The only reason I can come up with is the "Jar Jar Binks Clause." This clause dictates that, by intentionally giving fans something to annoy them, they will direct their ire at this and fail to notice all the other annoyances you mistakenly include in your product. Bethesda probably figures we will be so occupied with their annoying NPC's that we fail to notice their repetitive combat, terrible magic, horrendous leveling system, wooden dialogue, lack of options, overly plentiful loot and complete lack of either immersion or challenge.

 

Sadly, I can honestly say this is my last Bethesda-developed game. Its been a hard lesson painfully learned. I have enjoyed my time with these games, don't get me wrong. The sheer scope and freedom are appreciated. But Bethesda is designing console games now, for console gamers - overly simplistic loot fests with no decisions or consequences. I don't when or if anyone will come along and fill the PC-gaming void with a real RPG. I hope someone does, and soon. CDProjekt could likely do it, if they take a step back from consoles themselves, rid themselves of the premade Witcher character and the heavily scripted, god-of-war boss fights.

 

I hope someone fills that void. I hope someone gives us back choices and consequences. I hope someone does this in a world a little less cartoonish than Amalur offered.

 

I hope.

 

You really think console gamers are so lame compared to you? You have this odd view of gamers preferring crap and devs intentionally writing crap. News, Jar Jar wasn't written to annoy. Lucas actually has kids and wrote a lot for his kids. The Beth writers were probably trying to write a good game. I'll bet that Beth actually tried to make the game great, too. I'm even going out on a limb and speculating that gamers would love an even better game, even those lesser gamers you despise on consoles.

[audioave10]

The sad fact is...as we get older, these games are written for younger audiences. My gripe is that after becoming "Dragonborn", a lowly guard still will badmouth you

every time. That is POOR writing without depth. This being a console game is at least part of the reason for that. " Get it out the door quick."

As others have said...very shallow.

[thesapien]

The sad fact is...as we get older, these games are written for younger audiences. My gripe is that after becoming "Dragonborn", a lowly guard still will badmouth you

every time. That is POOR writing without depth. This being a console game is at least part of the reason for that. " Get it out the door quick."

As others have said...very shallow.

 

Yeah, half a decade in development was rushing it out the door, for sure.

 

The PS3 owners object to you calling this a console port, being that they got shafted the most on the memory issue on consoles. They're probably thinking it's a PC port, lol.

 

Anyway, IMO, the writing isn't excellent across the board, but I don't think the writers intentionally wrote it poorly thinking that most gamers like poor writing. Even younger audiences prefer better writing. The real problem is just that making a better game is harder than some gamers appreciate. We often think we could do so much better and could easily make the best game ever. Maybe that is true for some very talented and skilled people out there, but then why aren't they?

[eltucu]

The real problem is just that making a better game is harder than some gamers appreciate.

Hire obsidian to write the game. There, problem solved! :P

[BlackCompany]

Never said the writers wrote anything badly on purpose. I highly doubt anyone "tried" to write badly. What I think instead is that there was very little creativity put into the writing. Bethesda has a formula by which they design a plot:

 

Ancient, fearsome evil: Check.

Prophecy about hero rising to fight ancient evil: check

Wizened sage to guide hero: check

Opposing faction aligned with/sympathizing with ancient evil: Check

Make player hero: check

 

They take this - and the old school dungeon filler material like trolls, bandits and animal enemies - to a team of writers. "Here," they say, "make your material fit into this formula."

 

Now, to what degree would that inspire you, were you a writer? (And mind, with a big publisher breathing down your collective necks the while?) How creative would you really feel you could get with this same old tired formula? It makes for a shallow experience that seems as if little to no effort went into the writing.

 

Bethesda needs to retool the experience with the Elder Scrolls series. They do that, I might consider getting the next one. As is: Yes, I would pass on TES VI. At this point I cannot find one reason why I WOULD buy another TES game. I already know how it will start; I know the mid-game filler of endless, shallow fetch quests; I know the self-centered, asshat NPC's I will encounter; the endless, rude comments in their dialogue; I know the tired fantasy tropes like "Enchantment of +5 fire damage" I will find along the way.

 

Nothing ever changes in these games. They update graphics. Try and almost success to make combat a little better. Don't even bother with improving their writing. And release another game whose progress and narrative - such as it is - ends up the same as the last game.

 

Fans throw praise at the feet of guys like Todd Howard. They heap compliments on Bethesda for their amazing role playing games and their immersive worlds. But if you take off the rose tinted glasses you find out that choice is lacking in this world; there are no options, no dialogue. I can't talk a bandit down or a Necromancer into a trade for the treasure I need. Aligning with one faction makes no difference to others. No one in Whiterun hates me for siding with the Stormcloaks. No one in the DB minds the famous Archmage being their leader. It is patently ridiculous to call this a role playing game.

 

Bethesda makes great open world action games. Left to ourselves, to tell our own stories and mod the game to a playable state, these games can be fun. But to heap praise on writing that is uninspired and lacking - except perhaps for the Daedric Shrine quests, which mostly did improve - on combat that is ages behind the times and narrative which is most non-extant, is heinous. To send a message that we want more of this, and we want to call it a role playing game, no thank you.

 

When it comes to TES VI, barring some major and more mature changes to the series, I will pass.

[BlackCompany]

The real problem is just that making a better game is harder than some gamers appreciate.

Hire obsidian to write the game. There, problem solved! :P

 

Agreed. After playing Fallout New Vegas, I found plot, writing, faction relations and dialogue to ALL be steps backward in terms of modern role playing games. Sure FONV was buggy at first; the game featured more possible permutations of circumstances than any QA team could possibly ever test. And this was a direct result of the in-depth faction relations, story choices, varied endings and dialogue and other options found throughout the game.

 

FONV characters had depth. Factions mattered. I could play for hours and ever kill anyone. Pretty sure a violence-free play through of the main story is possible. Hard, but possible. Certainly a violence-only-when-needed play through is possible. After all, you could always insinuate yourself amongst factions by using their armor or even often times your speech skill.

 

Obsidian has writing and RPG down pat. Dungeon Seige III (got it free, with a PC) had more RP options than Skyrim. And by-now-infamous claims about having more dialogue options with a light switch (old world blues) than with the High King (Skyrim) is entirely true to boot. Bethesda does not design role playing games; they design open world action games. I just wish they would advertise them more honestly.

Edited February 25, 2012 by BlackCompany

[thesapien]

Never said the writers wrote anything badly on purpose. I highly doubt anyone "tried" to write badly.

 

Ah, but you did. You even gave it a name, "Jar Jar Binks Clause," which I'm objecting to on its original grounds and applied here. I found Jar Jar annoying, too. I also find lots of annoying things in Skyrim. However, I don't think these creators of said content were intending to annoy in order to distract from the worse offenders. Pleasant distractions actually work better, anyway. Speaking of which, that is why I play Skyrim with Japanese voices and English subtitles.

[godlikeueber]

my 2 cents:

 

i just came back for the texture pack, what an absolute shame it wasnt released last year, such a nice improvement.

 

skyrim rocked my world(!) when it came to art & style, yet the gameplay and quests stopped being interesting @50% or so (just as in all their games). extremly unbalanced and not the least bit challenging when it came to the mid/endgame (at one point i simply stopped wearing crafted stuff and went back to find/buy only gear). economy system was also worthless.

 

the only interesting quest lines were the dark brotherhood and maybe thieves guild due to its revenge theme - companions, mages etc. werent interesting at all (just my opinion).

 

i guess ill will wait til late summer and check out how much modders like duke were able to improve the looting/combat, i have no hope for "roleplaying" in a classical sense here though.

[thesapien]

I'm no longer sure what it means to role-play. How did certain games get this genre title? I mean, every game seems to have a main character. Some RPG's, like Witcher, don't even let you build your starting character. Anyway, building a self avatar isn't role playing because that's just you playing yourself.

 

Did the name just carry over from games like D&D, you know, back when the games were trying to mimic D&D but on computers? I can see why D&D was called role-playing and something like chess or Risk were not. But why now when most video games have role-playing front and center? Some still don't, like playing Civ, but most follow a main role, be it Batman or Shepard.