Darker, Edgier...Some Motivation

[godlikeueber]

yes its kind of a travesty... most games dont even hit the level that joining one fraction hinders you from joining the directly opposing one. new vegas was one of the better recent games, also regarding its dialoge options. with certain mods you could get some roleplaying in there, but i refuse to "use my fantasy" in the extent this other guy mentioned in this thread (fleeing from low level bandits pretending my char has her period).... yet mods cant change the structure of a game completly, quests are quests, MQ is MQ.

im a pc gamer though i own a 360... i think its misleading when people complain about consoles being the reason for the intellectual decline of gaming. just have a look at facebook and twitter to see what has become of computers since ordinary low attention span humans and *spit* females became a target audience. [RANT MODE] its a fu**ing disgusting reverse evolution to me! fu** social networking just for the sake of it, fu** "your facebook 'friend 'has invited you and his 10000000 other 'friends' to a party featuring dj a**clown!!11!" if you want to chat bulls*** and catch STDs go to your local "club" and waste your life the old fashioned way, no need to abuse a once great technology.

 

next elder scrolls wont change a thing, just check the great reception they got from the reviews and 99% of the gamers.

i guess im a bit disappointed by the low standards set by "main" reviewing sites like ign or gamespot which are supposed to know their s***. but after all they are just another reflection of the masses.

i never played mmorpgs like WOW but im rather sure they have absolutly nothing to do with roleplaying either.

 

@thread starter: care to share your npc modding setup, mine are stupid as hell...?

Edited February 26, 2012 by godlikeueber

[testertestertester]

I played very little Morrowind when it first came out because I couldn't get used to the combat. I played 200+ hours worth in Oblivion with mods. I can honestly say that the writing in Skyrim is much worse than in Oblivion. Compare the Thieves Guild questline in Oblivion with the one in Skyrim. Where's the epic theft of the Elder Scrolls? Compare the Dark Brotherhood questline in Oblivion with the one in Skyrim. Where's the extremely savage killing of all guild members and the gruesome death of one of the best characters in the game?

 

IMHO, Dragon Age Origins was a proper RPG. Sure, combat was slow, but it reminded me of the Baldur's Gate series a lot. There were characters you liked, characters you hated (not because they were annoying, but because of their role), decisions that had major ramifications on the remainder of the game (and not just one or two, but many). What you did in the world had an effect on the people.

 

Skyrim has no character. Can anyone name any NPC in Skyrim that you hate because of what they did? That guy from the Thieves Guild questline comes close (no spoilers) but even then, he is written like a cardboard and once he's gone and done with, that's it. There aren't any major events that affect the entire world - even the entire war between the Stormcloaks and the Imperial Army ends up with no real change except for a few superficial alterations of some cities.

 

It seems like Bethesda is decent at everything except character development and that is what makes Skyrim really uninteresting once you get past the shiny graphics and the flashy gameplay.

[haerual]

I feel like gaming studios are somehow getting alienated from gaming these days. It seems like they make games for a "target audience" as deemed most profitable by market analysis, rather than making a game that they would love to play themselves. So many compromises are made to widen this "target audience" and somehow it seems like the developers lose their passion midway through.

 

The way that Skyrim was made into a console game and then ported to PC, the way pacing, story telling, gameplay mechanics and just about everything in the game is manhandled into this directed (quest centric), instantly gratifying 15 minute orgasm from being almost executed into becoming a legendary being of immense power tells something about what type of audience they really target.

 

Everything about Skyrim seems to follow this formula. The gameplay mechanics are haphazardly put together and seem to only have a function of showcasing the game engine and it's possibilities/limitations to the modding community.

 

Fortunately, we have the most passionate modding group of all, and maybe in a year or two it all turns into a real role-playing experience that pays homage to the amazing art department that was at the heart of Skyrim's success in the first place.

Edited February 27, 2012 by haerual

[BlackCompany]

I remember when gaming was a niche hobby. PC gaming even more so. Back then you bought your games at shops which sold ONLY PC games. You held developers to a higher standard. You purchased games that involved thinking and strategy. Back then a 'quest marker' would have been a laughable idea and the thought of giving the player an entire map, without 'discovery fog' was unheard of - nigh, not done at all. Back then, you had to think to complete a game.

 

I don't know if console players are as simple minded as developers make them out to be. I really don't think they are. I truly believe a good number of console players would like a real RPG. One with choices and consequences and that involves more brains than brawn to complete. An immersion-oriented experience, instead of hack and slash action.

 

But developers lack the courage to make such a game. Its a financial risk they cannot afford to take. The current, mainstream games provide plenty of income and please shareholders. There is no reason to change. And no reason will arise until and unless we simply ceased buying the current product.

 

Which is why, barring major changes, I will pass on the next Elder Scrolls. And if Bethesda develops it, I am also very likely to pass on the next Fallout, as well.

[eltucu]

Skyrim has no character. Can anyone name any NPC in Skyrim that you hate because of what they did?

Like when somebody kills someone that you really like? Hard to do when you have 20min to even like somebody before a. gets killed or b. you're the guild master and have nothing else to do with them lol

 

Seems like their focus was to give tons of bits of content. So there are a lot of quests to do, but each is pretty small. Each character has very little development because they become important for the player for very little ammount of time.

 

I mean, there are RPGs that make you stick to a party, so its easy to think "Where all this character development focus should go!?" Duh, the party members. RPGs that dont make you stick to a party always present you with people you can relate with, make friends with.

 

That helps a LOT when trying to care for the world that you're in. Skyrim is so focused in not "forcing" you to be attached to someone or something, lest the game "encage" your character, that the player gets left apart of everything.

 

Thats exactly why i like New Vegas so much, because Obsidian took the whole freedom that Beth put into FO3, and gave it a direction (sadly the Mohave Desert is way less interesting than the DC area). Little ports in the storm that anchored the player to the place they were playing in. And for every thing the game presented you, Obsidian gave the player at least one way to deal with it. In Skyrim you have these big things that the player cannot influence.

 

Take a city like Riften. Of the top of my head i can recall lots of things that the player can do nothing about:

 

Corruption among guards.

Jarl's obviously siding with Maven.

Maven herself.

Their sons.

There are like 4 couples with issues that you cannot solve (or make the worse).

You cannot do something about the meadery.

Everyone living on Belka's Bunkhouse complain about something that you cannot take part in.

 

You will find lots of things like that on every city, big or small.

 

I know, its probably to make feel the player that he/she isnt the only moving force in the world. I'd be ok about it if those issues moved in some direction at least, if im not going to be the sole moving force in the world, at least make the world move a little! If you make the world too dependent on the player, it feels like it begins and ends with you, if you make it too detached of the player, it feels static and lifeless.

 

I simply cant recall that kind of situations in New Vegas. If something wasnt moving, the player could at least say "then I will make it move!" In Skyrim there is this big conflict between the "You're the savior of the world!" and the "But you can do nothing about it"

 

Every important role you can take is detached from the world, and the little roles you can take are so meaningless (as in unimportant, too simple, having lack of choices, etc) that they dont fill the gap between the player and the world they're in.

[yota71]

(excuse my English I'm using a translator)

 

I can tell you why I bought Skyrim, not so much for the game, after it was finished loses all interest, but for the community of modders that can make beautiful Skyrim as was the case of oblivion, because in my opinion is not the bathesda that makes the game but the player that the changes (and there's nothing better than a change made for passion) I think those who make the game should make the toolset simpler, more intuitive and with fewer bugs (a once they have done everything modders will totally change Skyrim and make it as we like.)

I bring you a simple example NeverWinter Nights game is old (more than ten years) but still people create modules.

I saw on that game to create entire worlds for hundreds (if not thousands of hours) of play (for instance, I've had installed for up to two months ago)

As I said above, I have great confidence in the modders, they will make Skyrim great, it is just to be patient

 

my two cents :)

[morgante]

:no:

 

a better way to look at your "computer role playing experience" with any CRPG you invest your time and money in, is this: a Toy Story

 

1) a child is bored, so as a parent you give it a new toy to play with

2) the child plays with the toy, but the toy can't hold its attention forever, so it puts the toy down and plays with a different toy

3) later, the child picks up the toy again, hoping to have more fun with it, but then tires of it again

4) the cycle repeats, until the toy is "all used up" -then the parent gives the toy to another child, so that the whole experience can be repeated

 

let's call you the child when you play with the toy

let's call you the parent when you pay for the toy

 

there are several avenues to explore with this analogy:

 

1) you tire of the toy; instead of crying about how boring it is after you've played with it to the other kids in the play pen, try to play with a different toy for a while; go outside, play in the street or something

2) you didn't like the toy in the first place? well, grow up and make a better toy yourself; it will only cost you $2 to $80 million and several lifetimes of skill sets that you currently lack -get crackin'

3) as you are also the parent in the story, look at the cost for all that entertainment: $60 for 100 hours of fun = 60 pennies per hour of fun -sounds like the deal of a century!

4) if you are an unselfish child, you will share you toy with a friend, let them play with it for a while! then you can cry together when you're both bored

5) this toy can be modified, by you, so make it better

 

that's free advice, you little whippersnappers, now get off my lawn

[Thoreai]

:no:

 

a better way to look at your "computer role playing experience" with any CRPG you invest your time and money in, is this: a Toy Story

 

1) a child is bored, so as a parent you give it a new toy to play with

2) the child plays with the toy, but the toy can't hold its attention forever, so it puts the toy down and plays with a different toy

3) later, the child picks up the toy again, hoping to have more fun with it, but then tires of it again

4) the cycle repeats, until the toy is "all used up" -then the parent gives the toy to another child, so that the whole experience can be repeated

 

let's call you the child when you play with the toy

let's call you the parent when you pay for the toy

 

there are several avenues to explore with this analogy:

 

1) you tire of the toy; instead of crying about how boring it is after you've played with it to the other kids in the play pen, try to play with a different toy for a while; go outside, play in the street or something

2) you didn't like the toy in the first place? well, grow up and make a better toy yourself; it will only cost you $2 to $80 million and several lifetimes of skill sets that you currently lack -get crackin'

3) as you are also the parent in the story, look at the cost for all that entertainment: $60 for 100 hours of fun = 60 pennies per hour of fun -sounds like the deal of a century!

4) if you are an unselfish child, you will share you toy with a friend, let them play with it for a while! then you can cry together when you're both bored

5) this toy can be modified, by you, so make it better

 

that's free advice, you little whippersnappers, now get off my lawn

What if the child realized after getting a new toy each time, its actually the same one just with a better look but in its core its the same old toy, sure it can modify it but there is difference in what the child can do and what the creators can...especially when the creators are able to do amazing things with the toy just in a week.

 

The child ask itself then if the creators focus is set on making fun creative toys or just to fill up its time with illusion, so in another 3 years they can make the same old toy just with a better look again.

 

No offense ment ofcourse.

 

This child likes their toys, but it is sad seeing how the creators creativity is being pushed somewhere to a corner.

[eltucu]

The guy just registered to call you (us in fact) whippersnappers, and you try to reason with him? lol

 

Better i get out of this thread lest i see the "anti entitlement knights" posts that might appear...

Edited February 29, 2012 by eltucu

[Thoreai]

The guy just registered to call you (us in fact) whippersnappers, and you try to reason with him? lol

 

Better i get out of this thread lest i see the "anti entitlement knights" posts that might appear...

That's okay, maybe some other children will realize the same i did and if there is more of them maybe we can make a change (speaking seriously i doubt anything like that will happen but i like to dream, just like everyone else).