XmirroR Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 NOTE : I previously posted this topic at MorrowindSummit.http://www.forumplanet.com/rpgplanet/morro...646&tid=1272698NOTE : It certainly isn't a Morrowind - Genral Topic, But since there is no Official MOD forum, I thought I could post it here. I have met some very very constructive people at RPGDot and hope to meet more. FIRST : I like Morrowind, Don't Get Me Wrong...Bethesda has created an Awesome Awesome Game. SECOND : I am OldSkewl RPG ( I was 10 when D&D First Arrived and I got my 26 page blue manual... And I had to lookup the word encumberance and finally ask my father what it meant. ) THIRD : I am OldSkewl CRPG ( In a Military Family, Travel is Required and Non-Stop, Finding RPGers on each new base, town, or city was hard... When I first heard of Wizardry and Ultima, I broke my father's bawls til he bought me an Apple IIe ) FOURTH : Plain and Simple, The Magic System in Morrowind is just toooooo easy. Not nearly enuf OldSkewl for me. So I have continually played my adventures in Morrowind without using magic. ( potions yes, scrolls yes, spells and casting NO ). Potions ( via Alchemy ) and Scrolls are still very powerful, so I make an effort to not use Alchemy Potions or Uber Scrolls. FIFTH : Stop pregnant-doging and do something about it. I have spent considerable time and effort ( to the detriment of work and family ) thinking about this. And I finally sparked up the "Ye Ol' Construction Set". SIXTH : It doesn't take a great deal of consideration to realize a total conversion of the magic system in Morrowind, would screw up the GAME "Morrowind". SEVENTH : Ok, so were talking a Total Conversion. I don't want to make a Total Conversion, um... OK we'll make just a long, extended, elaborate dungeon crawl ( aka a very simple short Ultima Underworld )... Ok I can do that, especially with great tools like GenMod. EIGHTH : Get to the Point! What am I talking about? A "New Magic System", am I high? I must be HIGH... Ok, well not really... I have spent sometime thinking about this. And using the editor and a self made "BLANK.ESP" ( removed all scripts, all cells ( except "Imperial Prison Ship" and Wilderness( 0,0 ) ), all NPCs, all Spells, all Items that use Duplicate NIFs, all Global Variables ( except those required by the engine ), etc. etc. etc. ) NINTH : Blank.ESP right! We were talking "NEW Magic System"... Oh Yeah... Ok, so I scripted my own MAIN, and CharacterGen scripts. And got to work. As it stands now. You start a NEW game, the PC is Generated, and dropped on the only dry land in the "Blank.ESP" ( Wilderness ( 0,0 ) ) and at your feet are three RUNES, and a few Reagents. PC has no Magicka ( Mana to us OldSkewlers ). The PC must pickup the runes and the reagents and have them in inventory. Simple Enuf. TENTH : Get on With IT! Ok, so here is the deal. You must meditate on the RUNES ( pull them from inventory to the character portrait ), in proper order to form a spell. Spells require three RUNES, and a set of reagents. When your meditation is complete ( you leave inventory mode ), the spell is added to your spell list and the reagents are deducted from your inventory and your magicka is restored to 2*INT. You can now cast the spell you have meditated on, for as long as you have the proper reagents ( each casting costs 1 set of reagents ) or as long as you have Magicka. The scripting is complex but extremely low impact on the engine. You can only have ONE spell at a time ( this might change but it would NEVER be more than a few ). #################################What is the Point?????????????################################# I can count to ten. Besides that, I am hoping that serious modders, taking on big projects, that have similar issues with the "morrowind" magic system, might consider using a "New Magic System". It could certainly be modified within reason. Meanwhile, I'll just be coding my simple dungeon crawl. I'd also like to hear from people that have good ideas on Rune based magic, or Reagent based magic, or both. Anyone interested in a POC ( Proof of Concept ) demo of the system ( oh it is basic, short, and boring ) can contact me at dejunai( AT )speakeasy.net using email SUBJECT "New Magic System". Or post a request and your email in this topic. I really really think I have something here, I also really really think I can be a better President than the last four US Presidents, so there is no vaildity, or reason to trust, in my opinion. However, I would very much like some feedback, and/or encouragment from people who have any interest in this subject. People who like the "morrowind" magic system, and don't want to see it changed, need not respond. I understand the "morrowind" magic system and it is perfect for the GAME "Morrowind", I have no intention of altering it or the game itself. The "morrowind" magic system is intrensic to the GAME "Morrowind". I completely respect that fact, and its creators at Bethesda. I do have some ideas for the evolution of this idea. ONE : Oh Sheet, He's counting again... Um, Nevermeind... Anyway, My thoughts are that there can be a SpellBook, and a Scribe option. You meditate on a spell ( without casting it ), and then scribe into your Spellbook. Spellbooks are hard to find, and can only hold 12 Spells. Spells, once in the Spellbook, require no meditation, can be cast without Magicka, but still require reagents. ( or require Magicka and no reagents, OR require Magicka and reagents and the only bonus is no Meditation ). This is the next phase of my development, so opinions on this subject are strongly encouraged. My basic premise is there are 10 Runes ( totally up for debate ( 10 is easy )). With 10 Runes there are 720 three-RUNE combinations allowing for a shedload of spells ( certainly not all combinations work, ie. produce spells ), and any combination repeating a RUNE is bogus to begin with ( debatable ( repeating runes allows for many more spells ), ( using one, two, and three RUNE combinations allows for 999 possible Spells )). ThroughOut the game/mod/tc there are "Receipe" Books. Receipe Books ( Tomes of Knowledge ) are not common, but not rare. They document what rune combinations create what spells, and the necessary reagents for the spell. Each RUNE should have a base purpose ( ala Ultima, In Lor, Vas Mani, etc. ) and certain combinations just wont create anything. Experimentation with the runes should be encouraged, players can concoct their own combinations not documented in "Receipe" Books. But the scripts will need to support it. Combinations not supported will cause the player some harm, but not much. Last, but not Least, I have a few points to make about the Inventory System. ONE : Crap he's Counting again... The Inventory System SuX. Oh, and now he's got strong opinions... With no qualifying Bethesda Cheering statements. Er, Ok, well... I don't care for the inventory system. No qualifications. Drag and Drop is a classic manuvere, I have no idea why Bethesda overlooked this... ( and damn wouldn't hot-keys for Persuasion and it's sub-menu been useful ). Crap he's rambling. Ok. Ok. To the point. The Inventory System for Morrowind is what it is. But there is no reason ~NOT~ to improve upon it, especially if were gonna have a "New Magic System" that adds crap like runes and reagents to the Inventory. Morrowind's Inventory system ( as written ) does not allow for inventory SUB-Containers. And adding one or more to the GAME "Morrowind" is difficult at best ( believe me I have tried; it can be done, it just can't be done well or easily ). But if we consider the "New Magic System" as part of a Total Conversion, it becomes much easier. THUS we can have a RUNE BAG, to keep our RUNES in, and a REAGENT BAG to keep the reagents in. This is not easy, but not impossible. And well worth the effort to keep the game engines inventory system from becoming overly cluttered. ( Side Note : Using Similar code, Key Rings are Possible and will be implemented in any TC I write [ Hate Clutter; Hate Clutter; Hate Clutter, grrrrr ] ( Personal Note : Avoid being raised by Mothers from lower Delaware )). Am I done. I think I am done. I might just be done. Well, at least until some input/feedback starts to come in. Please, Please send feedback. Thanks for your patience in reading this. I hope you can help me. Or I can help you. If you know of a good place to post this topic elsewhere I'd appreciate hearing that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveme4whoiam Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 *whistles in admiration* Woah... thats pretty impressive, and i don't mean the fact that you can count to ten. If you've really pulled all that off, i am truely in awe, especially if you've done it on your own. Anyway, i'd love to try you PoC, so please send it to [email protected]. I have a question though; is all this legal? I'm not making a case that its not (i heartily hope it is legal) but from what i've gathered from various sources is that stuff like the magic engine and things of that nature are regarded by Bethesda as "Not To Be Tampered With". Just a question ^_^ . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XmirroR Posted January 26, 2004 Author Share Posted January 26, 2004 I would assume it's legal, I have done absolutely nuthing to the core engine. The entire system is merely a set of scripts. Similar ( but different ) to the scripts Bethesda used to code their engine. Their scripts are "Under the Hood" and cannot be altered. Mine just intervene to create the results I want, ( again ) without affecting the core engine. I suppose, ( however unlikely ), if someone from Bethesda were to ask me NOT to finish this set of scripts. I'd scratch my head, do 10 questions with them, and then capitulate fully. But in any case I am proceeding as tho it is just another user based mod( ification ). ~shrug!~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywolf Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Hmmreminds me of something I was working on and something I am working on. Congrats i find it interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kethruch Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 I'd like to look at the system. Please send to [email protected]. I'd also like to perhaps add something that either you or someone else could add to the game - difficulty of spells and Spell lists It drives me bananas (and I'm probably even more of an old time RPG and CRPGer than you are - I started with Chainmail and advanced to D&D in 1973 when it came out) that you can buy any spell and be able to use it as long as you have the spell points to do it. You can never have even cast a spell dealing with fire in your life, and be able to cast a hellfire spell as soon as you get it. In the RPG system I like, you have to learn spells in order on lists (i.e. Fire Law - fire based spells). This means that you have to learn to create a little fire first, then start to learn to form it, then have it move, then be able to throw fireball, then strengthen the fireball, etc. I always thought that this was a good representation of how you would advance from the learning stage through expert status in using a kind of spell. Would you like to add that to your runic system? On your system: FIRST: Sounds interesting. Perhaps each of the runes could represent something (i.e. use combos of 5 types - earth, air, fire, water, spirit) and the spells would have to come from logical combinations: (water, water, earth) changes dirt to mud, (fire, spirit, air) creates a weak fire elemental , (fire, fire, spirit) creates a stronger fire elemental, etc. SECOND: Within the categories, have different effects and strength. i.e. of the 20 earth tiles, you have different things - from sand to gem to iron, etc. The different tiles would cause different strengths of the spells to occur (sand, sand, spirit) might summon a weak earth elemental (based on sand) while (diamond, diamond, spirit) might summon an exceedingly strong earth elemental. THIRD: Inventory system - Are you actually proposing being able to carry MORE? FOURTH: Why not have sets be able to create spells? Why can't there be more than one set of tiles in the world? If you were able to use two of the same tile, that effect would be increased, while three would be almost a pure creation of the thing the tiles represents. FIFTH: What power pool is there that you draw on? Is it a system where you provide the power to cause everything to happen, or is it where you gather the strength from the items around you. If it is the former, why need reagents? If it is the latter, reagents work fine, but which reagents work with what spells could be important. SIXTH: Following up on my question in the last number, will each reagent be keyed to work with some of the runes? (Having them match by element per my early ideas might be really neat - having a diamond for a reagent to go with the earth tile diamond could multiply the effectiveness of the spell) SEVENTH: What about spell research and discovery? Will/does your system take into account other effects that might be created using different combos of tiles and reagents than originally described? Going to the last number, if a recipe calls for (dirt, dirt, water) for the runes, will it have different effects if you were to use, say, (dirt, dirt, blood) for the reagents or (marble,emerald,holy water)? If the system does not match the reagents by type to the runes, ignore this number. EIGHTH: There is no Eighth suggestion. NINTH: How long would it take to regenerate the spell? You would get, if I am reading correctly, the knowledge and power to cast just that spell a number of times. How time consuming would changing spells be? I can see a situation where you are on a run with a pathfinding spell when you run into a creature. MW isn't real big on running around in parties, and if you want to be good in spells, especially early on, your weapon skills probably aren't up to some of even the early creatures. I can envision a magic using character scrambling through his runes to find the right ones for any attack spell as he is being mauled. TENTH: Misfiring spells - as most of the players who have had me for a GM know, having nothing happen when a spell is miscast is one of the best results that they can hope for. How about some random/designed effects when the spell is not cast correctly? You have damage for putting together bad combos, but what about bad magicians? ELEVENTH: Why should any combination of tiles not work? If you can find the right combination of tiles and reagents, why not have effects possible for all of the combinations, even if some of them are "random", or some other strange occurrence? TWELFTH: Drummers drumming (oops, wrong twelve). I like the idea of the limited spells in a book, and having to tote around multiple spellbooks to be able to cast a lot of spells. Why the great drop in need to have the runes? Why not instead make it that once proficiency with the spell reaches a certain level (like a skill of 100 in the spell or spell type in particular), the runes are no longer needed? THIRTEENTH: All of the above does not mean that I think that your proposal and the work you've done so far is not great! I know how hard it is to write a system for spellcasting out in a paper environment, (having done it on a couple of different occaisions) and the added complexity of putting it into a program is no small feat. Congratulations! The above points would constitute a wish list for what I would love to see in a magic system, and what I thought of when reading your points. If some of them give anyone ideas, great, if not, oh well. FOURTEENTH: I can definitely see your ULTIMA background, especially in the reagents and the inventory systems you're looking at. FIFTEENTH: Spell using characters - one of my biggest peeves with Morrowind. Once you choose a character class in MW, it makes virtually no difference what kind of character you are playing. A Mage can become the land's greatest swordsman, and a barbarian can become the head of the mage's guild. What would you think of limiting the use of the runes by character class? I think I've taken up enough space. Let me know what you think of the above. Thanks, and great work!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XmirroR Posted January 27, 2004 Author Share Posted January 27, 2004 Kethruch, WoW, thanX for the strong response. You brought up some really really goode points. Addressing them all is gonna take some time... ( must refill coffee )... ( ok, back )... First off, let me say this. While the possibilites of this RUNE/REAGENT system may seem limitless, they are indeed limited to the "under the Hood" engine that is morrowind. Some of your suggestions I think conflict with the engine. That's not to say that some creative scripting cannot get around it. Just to say the solutions to some of the issues will likely not appear seamless to the PC. Second, ( oh sheet the counting again... ) I am developing this mostly to see if it can be done. From what I have accomplished so far, Nuthing is standing in the way of a RUNE based system, or a REAGENT based system, or BOTH. I am developing a system with BOTH, just to make sure I am not talking out my nether regioins. And in essence, by delevoping BOTH, anyone wishing to employ a RUNE ( only ) based system, or a REAGENT ( only ) based system, is merely asking for a simplifcation of the code, rather than a severe rewrite. On the subject of runes ( ignoring REGAENTS for the moment ) : the code is very simple. What I expected to be complex, I was able to refine to a very very simple methodology. Now that I have used the word simple, let me break it down with its remaining complexity. ( the following is based on a RUNE system with a MAX of 10 runes, easily adjusted to a MAX 100 runes, but we're not going there right now, so think 10 ) You have runes... In your inventory. ( for sake of argument, right now ) You have [3] runes. You have ZERO Magicka. You want to cast a spell. Open the Inventory System, Your STAT sheet shows 0/0 Magicka, and 35 INT. Your map is there, but obviously not affecting the magic system, and the MORROWIND magic menu is there, and utterly blank. You have no spells, no magicka. Moving over to the Inventory window, you see three runes [RUNE01] [RUNE02] [RUNE03]. It's now time to MEDITATE on your runes. To begin meditation you drag a RUNE, from inventory to your character portrait. MessageBox "You begin your Meditation on RUNE##"... Under the hood ( in the scripts ) the global *meditation* flag is set, the value of the first rune is mutiplied by 100, and added to the global *runevalue* ( which was zero to start with ), your second rune is drug from inventory to portrait, mutiplied by 10, added to *runevalue*, third rune is ( mutiplied by 1 and ) added to the *runevalue*. After the third rune, You close the MENUMODE ( leave inventory ) and a MessageBox "You have ( have not ) sucessfully meditated on Spell ( spellname )" pops up. The mechanics of the script, based on the above scenario, allows for the *runevalue* to be ( 111, 112, 113, 121, 122, 123, 131, 132, 133, 211, 212, 213, 221, 222, 223, 231, 232, 233, 311, 312, 313, 321, 322, 323, 331, 332, 333 ) and thats assumeing you MUST use three runes ( otherwise, toss in 100, 110, 120, 130, 200, 210, 220, 230, 300, 310, 320, 330 ). That's a shedload of possible combinations ( therefore spells ) in just [3] runes, if duplication of a rune is allowed. With duplication off, we have only the combinations ( 123, 132, 213, 231, 312, 321 ) which is gonna be easier to handle *by the mod author* as the number of runes goes up, and the combinations rise exponentially. But the code doesn't care. If the script has a spell associated with the *runevalue* that spell is added to your Magic Menu. If it doesn't have a spell associated with it, there would be a default MessageBox "Fizzle, CRAcK, PoP" ( or sumsuch ). Moving on... If sucessful, the spell you were meditating on is now on your magic menu, and you have been granted 2*INT for Magicka ( in the case described above, that 70 Mana points ). Scripting will NOT allow ( to my mediocre knowledge ) the forced readying of a spell, It can forciabbly equip a melee weapon, or armour/clothing, but not equip a spell. ~SHRUG!~ So back into the inventory menus we go, ( yes, yes we were just here )... and on the magic menu is ( for example ) *Mediation Spell* FireBall. Select the spell, and it is readied to the Magic Icon, next to the Melee Icon ( lower left of the UI ). Ok, now we're a bada$$ mage with a spell. Sheath your melee weapon, toss your hands out in front of your body ( casting mode ), and start casting your pretty fireballs. You cast the spell for the first time. The scripts see you cast the spell, by watching your magicka drop from 70 to 65 ( its a whimpy 3d8 fire damage, costing 5 mana ). The scripts zip over to the Magic Menu, and REMOVE the spell *Mediation Spell* FireBall, from your Magic Menu. BUT... BUT... Damn scripts cannot remove the readied spell from the UI Magic Icon. And the engine ( silly, silly little engine ) will allow you to continue to cast the spell as long as its readied, WHETHER or NOT it's on your Magic Menu. So tweaking of the MANA cost, and Base MANA received when meditaing, is where the gameplay balancing act takes place. When you run outta MANA you can nolonger cast the spell. That's the basics for rune mechanics. But let's quickly talk about mediation. You meditate on FIREBALL, and then READY it, and dont cast it. Then go back to MEDITATE on a HEALING spell. The FIREBALL is still on your Magic Menu, because you didn't cast it. It gets removed from the Magic Menu, and replaced by *Meditaion Spell* Minor Heal, but you DONT ready the HEAL spell. You can now cast the FIREBALL spell using the MANA pool for the HEAL spell. ( again this is because the scripting has no access to equip, or unequip a readied spell ). BUT, the scripts see you cast the FIREBALL, know the MANA pool for HEAL is different, and the change in the MANA pool is not in keeping with the spell HEAL. And ZAP, you got the spell off once, but now have no Magicka, and HEAL is removed from the Magic Menu. Making it infeasible ( I hope ) to cheat. Real Role players dont cheat anyway. Ok... Ok... So enuf about the mechanics. Lets discuss the Rune System... Ok, I admit it. I am making this up as I go along ( not the post, the rune concept ). In my mind, I see an "ultima underworld" rune system. The runes represent NOUNS, VERBS, and ADJECTIVES... LOR is a noun for "Light", IN is a verb for "Create", ( this is from memory... ) so the rune combination "IN LOR" is "Create Light". "LOR IN" doesnt "Light Create" that's just bad grammer ( fizzle pop ). "VAS" is an adjective meaning "Great". So the Rune Combination "IN VAS LOR" is "Create Great Light", and produces a longer lasting, brighter spell of light. Now clearly, I AM NOT GONNA FLATOUT COPY ULTIMA... I have no love of EA ( electronic arts ) who holds the copyrights, but I do have enormous esteem for the original developers of the Ultima Games and Mythos ( richard garriot, origin, lookingglass, warren spector, and many many more ). And to blanketly copy their system and/or mythology is wrong. ( I am a playwrite and a coder myself. ). But I see no reason NOT to be influenced by their art. So I have thought about a similar system using Earth, Wind, Fire, Water... The elemental magics. I had not considered SPIRIT until you mentioned it, but I like it. I had, on the otherhand, considered the VERB "Animate", for use in creating elemental creatures. With the type of creature based on the ADJECTIVE ( great, small, minor ). So... That's where I am at ( with the runes ). Mechanics are complete. Mythos is barely begun. I need help. Perhaps you're just the person ( Kethruch ) to give me such help ( hope, sigh, hope ). 10 Runes gives the possibility of 999 combinations, with duplicate runes allowed, and 720 combinations, with duplication NOT allowed. PLENTY of damn spells. BUT, that is likely to limit the Mythos. 100 Runes is not an issue, the mechanics adjust the *runevalue* to 1st rune * 10,000; 2nd rune *100 and 3rd rune * 1... The values return in combinations like 231209, which is the 23rd rune, the 12th rune, and the 9th rune, NOT an issue, and we certainly dont need 100 runes, 20 or so would be fine... The only serious issue, is the inventory clutter, which is solved by a RUNE_BAG ( I wont go into any detail just yet about the RUNE_BAG ), which behaves like ( is ) a container object. The default UI at 1024 x 768 allows for about 35 objects visible in a container without the need to scroll around the container interface. That would be my personal aesthetic limit. Sheesh, I just keep typing... Mythos... Ok, well first lets discuss some game engine limitations... The editor will allow for a near infinite amount of spells to be developed, ( ok you precision math people, it's not infinite, but it's so large a number as to be really really big. ). BUT... BUT... It has a predefined limited number of spell effects. Our Mythos cannot add to these. We can however, get around some limitations. For example, SUMMON A GOLDEN SAINT, does just that, It summons a golden saint. In fact all summon spells are predefined by the engine. We can get around this an easy way, by changing the creature OBJECT of "golden_saint_summon" to a FireElemental. The game engine still sees the proper object, and the PC ( player ) sees our object ( the FireElemental ). Second Option, we can creat a spell that SETS FATIGUE to 6000, it fires off, the PC suddenly has 6000 Fatigue, we saw him cast the spell, cause his MAGICKA dropped during the last frame, we know what spell he fired based on what spell was prepared, how much MAGICKA was used, and his current FATIGUE LEVEL, so we execute a script, which in the very next frame SETS his FATIGUE back to normal and positions a FireElemental 6 feet in front of him. BadaBingBaby, we just got around the limitation of pre-existing game engine spell effects. Not to say that scripting a FireElemental is gonna be easy, just to say we can. Ok so Mythos... Well, Mythos is gonna be all goode and fine. But we need to know what spells we want to cast first. So we need a list of spells, a long list of spells, and we need to define the spells as [3] rune sets. And we need to know what the runes are to define the rune sets. ( crap the issue is cyclic ). So lets define the runes, using NOUNS ( I am still for Elemental Magic ), a few VERBS, and some basic ADJECTIVES. ======NOUNS======EarthFireAirWaterSpirit ( if I may )Self ======VERBS======AnimateCreateProtectHealProjectRasieDamageCure ========Adjectives========WorstBadPoorSimpleMinorAverageGoodGreat Ok, that's [22] words, thus [22] Runes... [22] Runes, means were exceeding the [10] rune scenario, and embedded in the [100] rune scenario. [22] runes outta [100] runes, means plenty of room to expand the Mythos. So let's talk Spells... ( examples ) FireCombat--------------FlameArrow = Simple Fire Project(al)FireBolt = Minor Fire Project(al)FireBall = Good Fire Project(al) Healing---------HealWounds = Heal Average SelfCurePoison = Cure Average SelfCureDisease = Cure Good SelfRemovePoison = Cure Average Spirit ( on a target NPC )RemoveDisease = Cure Good Spirit ( on a target NPC ) RaiseDead-------------SummonGhost = Raise Minor Spirit ( engages combat [except PC] )SummonSkeleton = Raise Good Spirit ( '' )SummonGhost = Raise Poor Spirit ( engages combat [perhaps PC] )SummonSkeleton = Raise Bad Spirit ( '' ) Summoning---------------SummonEarthGolem = Animate Good EarthSummonEarthElemental = Animate Great Earth Other-------Blind = Project(al) Earth Water ( toss mud in the eyes of your target )Ignite = Create Minor Fire ( ignites unlit torch or candle )Douse = Create Minor Water ( extinguishes torch or candle )Levitate = Raise Self Good ( fly with limited speed )Fly = Raise Self Great ( fly with normal speed )Food = Create Self Earth ( you're gonna hafta eat in my mod )Sleep = Damage Spirit Good ( target takes a nap ) Um, well, Ok, I'll stop.... Again I admit ( I ADMIT ) I am making this up as I go along. Just in the examples above, there are number of spells, I have no idea how to write in the game. NO IDEA # 1 : douse a lit torch, um, well... as far as I know you cannot mod the light level settings of an object. Certainly worth trying, ( I'll get right on that ). But assuming it's not possible via simple scripting... like:( "lit_candle_01"->SetLightLevel, 0 [EVERY CANDLE MUST BE UNIQUE] ) It might yet be possible, with a script on every "lit_candle_01" that checks for...( if ( spell_lastframe == 345 ) [sPELL DOUSE] )( if( PCDistance < 300 ) [bASED ON RANGE ( quaility ) OF SPELL] )( Disable [THE LIT CANDLE] )( "unlit_candle_01"->Enable [sTILL NEEDS TO BE UNIQUE] )( EndIf )( EndIf ) Perhaps yet still, ( I am a playwrite not an english major... I can say "Perhaps yet still", but I doubt it is grammically correct )... er... Perhaps yet still, we can place an "UNLIT_CANDLE_01" that pre-exists at the EXACT SAME LOCATION as the "lit_candle_01" without the need to "ENABLE" it. Can it be done? ( I'll get right on that. ). RUNES, done.... Wow, I am still typing/talking... I haven't addressed any issues with REAGENTS. Or the other numerous issues Kethruch brought up. I'll try ( hahahahahaa ) to be brief ( snicker ) about REAGNETS. The premise here, is that: just cause you have the RUNES ( ability [RUNES] / knowledge [known-COMBINATION] ), doesn't necessarilly mean you have the "Capability". REAGENTS are the "capability". I may have the runes for the uber spell, I may know the combination of the uber spell, but unless I have the fuel for the uber spell, it ain't gonna happen. The code is ( the scripts are ) being written in such a way as to include reagents, but ALSO one small tweak to the global variable *require_reagents* and the system becomes "Reagent Free". The possibility exists in a "Reagent Required" enviroment, that some ( the basic starter ) spells dont absolutely require reagents. The reagents required for the simple spells are equal to none. With this in mind, it would ~should~ also be possible to code a "Reagent Required / Rune Free" magic system. I am not currently coding that system. It seems like the harder of the two, and I began my code on the premise of a RUNE system. As far as REAGENTS being tied to any one RUNE, I don't see it. Can be done, would love to do it, for any mod/tc author who wants it. Wasn't considering it, but it seems easier than what I have planned ( planned being a word used totally outta context , I have no plan ). Conceptually, you'd have access to the most runes, and therefore combinations, long before you'd have the access to the most powerful spells. Therefore the reagents need to be specific to the spell. A simple example, ( I AM MAKING THIS UP AS I GO ALONG )... Would be the desire to let the player to be able to cast "Great Heal Self" ( HealMajorWounds ), and "Simple Fire Project(al)" ( FireArrow ). If the regent for the RUNE "Great" is always the same... The player could cast "Great Fire Project(al)" before the plotline was ready. I hope that makes sense, and will assume it doesn't. The bottom line, the system I am coding : runes are specific to spells, reagents are specific to spells, runes and reagents ARE NOT specific to one another. If they were, a "Reagent Free / Rune Only" system would seem to make more sense... Certainly, not out of the question ( runes to reagents ), it's probbally eaiser to code, but harder to gameplay balance in my mediocre opinion. REAGENTS, done....Seriously, Reagents, done...No, no more about reagents... ( oh how I want to dwell on reagents )But, NO! Ok, just one last thing about reagents... They is gonna hawg yer inventory; no more so than an ALCHEMIST in the base game "Morrowind", but lets face it, in the base GAME "Morrowind" ingredients/reagents hawg your inventory if you dont sell them off. Course you could play like me and just DONT PICK THEM UP, but since they are now REQUIRED to use Magic, we IS gonna need them. REAGENTS : "Not your Cheap A$$ cash flow anymore". Enter the "REAGENT_BAG"... I have code and scripts like the "RUNE_BAG" that will help organize the inventory, in regards to reagents. It is yet another sub-container object; Unlike the "RUNE_BAG" it is ^NOT^ interactive. You can only put regents into the "REAGENT_BAG", you cannot remove them. They ARE REMOVED from the REAGENT_BAG by spells ( ie Consumed ) when a spell is cast. It's not easy to describe, but it worX... It will make complete sense to the PC/Player. As with any sub-inventory-container there are issues. The current issues with the "REAGENT_BAG" as designed, are fairly serious issues ( I ADMIT ). Once the reagents are in the bag, you ( the PC ) can not determine how may of any given reagent you have left. ( I ADMIT ) This is a serious issue, but I am more than confident I can find a simple near-seamless solution. Truth is I have one in mind, but I have yet to start coding it ( I'll get right on that. ). Even with sub-inventory-container issues, I have coded the scripts to behave normally if you choose NOT to use ( NOT to play with ) the sub-inventory-containers... Thus, you can play without them, and still use the fully realized RUNE/REAGENT system. REAGENTS, done...Yes, REAGENTS, done... Am I done? er, no...Man is this the longest post in the world or what? Kethruch, brought up a dozen or so really really goode points.( I hope I have addressed some of them )Not the least of which, is "Magic vs. Class"...In fact it's the most brought up by serious peeps everywhere I have posted the original topic. "Magic vs. Class" :Plain and simple the morrowind game engine doesn't give a rat's a$$. Can it be done? ( I'll get right on that. ). Seriously tho, I think it can... I am not currently coding my scripts to support distinctions between class. In fact, My mod will throw out the class system entirely, when you begin my mod you are JoeSchmoe peasent. You have little or no training in any field. And the truth is you were in jail for so long before being cast into my dungeon crawl, that your pre-exisiting attributes have dwendled to near ZERO... But it should be fairly simple to create a basic statisical system to decide what you have been doing with your magic, and thus improve your chances on those things you're practicing regualrly, and hinder/impead those things you haven't tried before. Is this really "Magic vs. Class"? I wont really know until I code a mod that incorperates it. Honestly, It's probably easier to develop plotline points... ( I AM MAKING THIS UP ) {... you have ventured into a great shrine, before you lies an alter, on the alter is a bag of healing reagents, and a bag of combat reagents, the Giant Fire Demon of G'ranDath stands behind the alter... in some ancient tongue you cannot understand, he begins to speak, "Assd graakfcd dwere jaas deewre", intuitively you understand that you can have only one of the bags... choose wisely...} ( YES, I WRITE TEXT ADVENTURES )( YES, I WRITE BAD ( cheesy, cliche' ) TEXT ADVENTURES ) But it's not impossible to do "Magic vs. Class", as long as "Class" is defined by a fluid object, rather than the STATIC ^PCCLass^ object in the game engine. You know, I haven't read anything saying the ^PCCLass^ variable isn't accessible from scripts; in fact it must be, because you can use it in MESSAGEBOX dialogues. But somehow I doubt it is a TESTABLE variable...[ if( ^PCCLASS^ == "#" ) ] ( I'll get right on that. ). =================Bottom Line================= Seriously, I am gonna finish this post sometime in the near future... I promise. Anyone interested in incorporating a RUNE/REAGENT based system of magic in their Total Conversion mod, ( again I cannot stress enuf, it will not work as an addon mod to morrowind proper ) PLEASE PLEASE contact me. I am so not interested in developing my own mod it hurts. I am HOWEVER interested in developing a New, Useable, Creative, Constructive, Magic System. ( I have no idea why. ) I am developing a RUNE based magic system, which uses REAGENTS ( but can be quickly, seamlesly, developed without reagents, if necessary ) Anyone willing to contribute to my TC, a simple claustrophobic dungeon crawl, or the Magic Mythos itself, please please contact me. Post RUNE suggestions, Spells, Reagents. Just dont post ( this is a rant based on posts at other forums ), that it cannot be done. Anything I have claimed I have done, is possible or I wouldn't have posted it. Arguments about sub-inventory-containers, or the virtues of the existing morrowind magic system will only serve to hinder the progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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