EPDGaffney Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 If any NPC or creature is dead and its limb or head is severed after having died, I can 100% consistently make the limbs and heads duplicate by leaving and returning to the cell. I don't remember the limbs cloning more than once, but the heads will clone infinitely if I keep entering and exiting the area. NPC heads lose all facial hair and head hair, and the tongue and eyes are not duplicated, though they get their meat caps. CPU: AMD FX-8320, 8-core, 3.5 GHz.GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 750 Ti, 2GB VRAM.RAM: 16GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 577MHz (11-11-11-28).HDD: 3TB, separate partition for games which is 750GB with 359GB free of that 750GB.Laptop or Desktop: Desktop.OS: Windows 10 Home 64-bit, fully up to date. Game Directory: Z:\Steam\steamapps\common\Fallout New VegasGame Version: Ultimate Edition, Steam version, fully patched and up to date.DLCs: All DLC installed and enabled.Mod Manager: NMM.Helper Programmes: NVSE 5.1 beta, 4GB launcher (not patcher), NVAC, NVSR, One Tweak (fake full-screen).Did it work before: I don't remember ever seeing this problem but it is not too common for me to attack dead bodies you see, and even more rare for me to come back afterwards.Verified Integrity of Game Cache: I have. The .ini files stayed where they were, as I had no idea about moving them. Did this rewrite my .ini files? because a lot of their entries are not what I put.Hide file extensions: No.Load order (sorry):GameMode=FalloutNVFalloutNV.esm=1HonestHearts.esm=1DeadMoney.esm=1OldWorldBlues.esm=1LonesomeRoad.esm=1GunRunnersArsenal.esm=1New Vegas Redesigned 3.esm=1Casa Madrid Redesigned.esp=1Gomorrah Redesigned v2.esp=1MikotoBeauty.esm=1FCOMaster.esm=0ELECTRO-CITY - CompletedWorkorders.esm=1ELECTRO-CITY - Highways and Byways.esm=1Interior Lighting Overhaul - Core.esm=1Interior Lighting Overhaul - L38PS.esm=1Afterschool Special.esm=1NVInteriors_Core.esm=1NVInteriors_ComboEdition.esm=1Lings.esm=0SomeguySeries.esm=1DWCNV.esm=1SpeedyResources.esm=1MercenaryPack.esm=1TribalPack.esm=1ClassicPack.esm=1CaravanPack.esm=1Purge Cell Buffers.esp=1Zan_AutoPurge_SmartAgro_NV.esp=0Convenient Fast Travel Markers.esp=1casinofix.esp=1hiddenvalleybugfix.esp=1ShaddapYaBleedinMutie.esp=1CaesarsHead.esp=1ShaddapYaBleedinTribal.esp=1MusicRecovery.esp=1Rat beats Squirrel.esp=1MysteriousStrangerFix.esp=1New Vegas Redesigned 3.esp=1MikotoBeauty.esp=1FCO - Mikoto Patch.esp=0majormodder's Junk Food to Barbeque Crisps.esp=1Improved Sound FX.esp=1Improved Sound FX - Weapon Sharing Fix.esp=1Improved Sound FX - Merged Major DLCs.esp=1Improved Sound FX - GRA.esp=1Improved Sound FX - EVE.esp=0ILO - PipBoy Light.esp=0ADAM - NCR Patrol Armour.esp=1NCRTrooperOverhaul.esp=1TrooperOverhaul-Dragbody.esp=1The Mod Configuration Menu.esp=1boa ncrpahelmet.esp=1Boacombat2glove.esp=1dD - Enhanced Blood Main NV.esp=1No more giant manhole covers.esp=1Cut Sewers Restored.esp=1Casino Exchange All.esp=1Strip Wall Billboards.esp=1Too Many Quest Markers - Main.esp=0Too Many Quest Markers - Dead Money.esp=0Too Many Quest Markers - Honest Hearts.esp=0Too Many Quest Markers - Lonesome Road.esp=0Too Many Quest Markers - Old World Blues.esp=0pyDoF.esp=0IMPACT.esp=1Hanlon dialogue fix.esp=1NevadaSkies - Darker Nights.esp=0FNV Realistic Wasteland Lighting - Full.esp=0FNV Realistic Wasteland Lighting - Darker Nights.esp=0ELECTRO-CITY - Darker Nights.esp=1MiscItemIconsNV.esp=1LFox Sink Bug Fixes.esp=1Interior Lighting Overhaul - Ultimate Edition.esp=147 ENB Weather.esp=0Lings-PlayableRaces.esp=0FNV Vanilla hat fix with all storyline DLCs.esp=1DLM_Dead Money Deans Blackmail holo fix.esp=1Fiendsfriend.esp=1Extra-Characters---Fiends-Quest-ENABLED.esp=1FastSleepNV.esp=1NewVegasBounties.esp=1TheInheritance.esp=1KingOfTheRing.esp=1NewVegasBountiesII.esp=1Badmothaf*#@a.esp=1NewVegasKiller.esp=1Russell.esp=1TheBetterAngels.esp=1NewVegasBountiesIII.esp=1Radio New Vegas Always Enabled.esp=1TheBetterAngelsAmbientNoise.esp=1RussellAmbientNoise.esp=1NVBIIAmbientNoise.esp=1NVBIIIAmbientNoise.esp=1CheckpointGary.esp=1CheckpointGaryAmbientNoise.esp=1Uncut Bison Steve Trees.esp=1Uncut Extra Collection.esp=1Uncut Greenhouses.esp=1Uncut Skeletons.esp=1BM Dish Explosion No tab.esp=0BM Dish Explosion tab.esp=1Lore Fix - Asian Daniel.esp=1Less Assertive Raul Speech Check.esp=1Grim Reaper's Sprint With Ranks.esp=1ExtendedNVRadio.esp=1kochandbohr.esp=1athornysituation.esp=1awilderwasteland.esp=1lexx_brahmin-betsy.esp=1NewVegasBountiesFSOPatch.esp=0originalintroExtended.esp=0outsidebets.esp=1Uncut Wasteland.esp=1rotfacetoriches.esp=1avangraffscorned.esp=1Pacersgambit.esp=1RequirementsMatter.esp=0ProjectRealityMkIv5HDR.esp=1ILO - Project Reality Patch.esp=0XoanonBuildYourOwnRadioStationWAV.esp=0XoanonBuildYourOwnRadioStationMP3.esp=0CustomLighting.esp=1CustomLighting II.esp=1Radio Nuclear Winter Wonderland.esp=1EVE FNV - ALL DLC.esp=1FactionFunFacts.esp=0Lanius Unleashed Hardcore.esp=1BetterLoadingTextRedone.esp=1Stealth Suit Configuration Menu.esp=1Casino Suits Fix.esp=1Smart Suit Extra.esp=0Smart Suit Replacer.esp=1The True Revival of Luxury - An Ultra-Luxe Overhaul.esp=1Kobu's New Game Quick Start and Better Rebuild.esp=1Stealth Suit MK II Speed Fix.esp=1IntegratedFullDLC.esp=1Passive Startup Messages.esp=1Mikoto Feathered.esp=0Gloomy Sunday Best.esp=1 Longer description of problem:When I dismember someone and leave the cell and then come back, the limbs will be duplicated. They can't be interacted with with the search or grab button normally, but reäct to physics engine stuff as they should, like being shot at or run into. However, if I position the duplicated limb directly on the centre cross-hair, and I keep another part of the corpse close enough to get a Search prompt, using the grab button will grab the duplicated limb that you normally can't grab.The arms and legs seem to get placed pretty close to the arm or leg they're being duplicated from, but the heads get placed near the body. It's extremely freaky-looking, as it has to be on the ground, so sometimes the head will just appear under the arm or something.The creepiest thing is that the heads will not have any eye mesh or inner mouth/tongue/teeth meshes, nor hair or facial hair. So you see the ground through the eye-holes. It's awful.Testing this, I removed all limbs from several raiders, left the cell, came back, saw the glitch, left again, came back again, and saw the glitch had corrected itself (both inside and outside, as I'd killed several raiders both inside and outside). Then I decided to test on a dead NPC civillian from a mod I'm making. I took off only his head, no limbs. I left and came back, and his bald, eyeless head was there. I left and came back. Now a third head. I got up to about eight duplicated heads before I realised the bug was returned for the raiders as well, but they had only one duplicate of each severed limb/head. Although, I had been moving the body of the civillian NPC, and the duplicated head spawns near the body, so perhaps the raider heads were just copying over themselves?This seems to be a rare bug or my googling is horrible. Would love to know what this is.Update: This only happens as a result of postmortem dismemberment. Truth is, I think I can live with that from a gameplay perspective. It's not as if I've a habit of doing that. But I'm still curious as to the cause. I thought maybe it was having the GECK open during play, as I never used to do that, but it isn't. Besides that, I've discovered that it clones heads infinitely but only indoors. Outdoors it makes one clone and then on returning, that clone is gone. Sometimes it will come back and other times not. It actually seems to depend on the cell. Leaving a cell for a decent amount of time, like five or ten minutes real-time, seems to eliminate the bug from the dead bodies there. I've tried removing various mods but had no luck. Recently, I accidentally unpacked my BSAs into the Data folder and overwrote most of my mods with vanilla files. I deleted what I thought were all the unpacked files and then installed all my mesh and texture mods again, but then I found a couple of straggler unpacked files, so I mustn't have got everything. This bug could have been present for ages and I may not have noticed, given the requirement that I dismemeber something after it's already dead, then leave and come back, but I never noticed it till after unpacking the BSAs. Here is a screenshot I grabbed from this thread where the problem appears to be identical:Screenshot. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladez Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 You might want to move those inactive plugins out of your data folder, the game still processes them. This puts you right above about the 139 plugin cap where things start to get funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPDGaffney Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 Good call. Hadn't realised I'd added so many new mods. Been meaning to get round to cleaning things up a bit. The two reasons I didn't bother were that I was lazy and the other thread's OP said that even with no mods he still had this problem. But maybe he still had the inactive .esps there as well. I'll give that a go and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubiousintent Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) Similar symptoms do not equal similar causes. (They are a good starting point, but you have to watch out for the tunnel vision they sometimes induce.) The OP in the other thread never responded with any details, so we never were able to properly diagnose the issue. General suggestions regarding that "load order": I see a "Purge Cell Buffers.esp=1" and "Zan_AutoPurge_SmartAgro_NV.esp=0". Those are methods intended for mod creators when testing; not for game play. Please see the 'Issue: CTD without warning, "Out of Memory error", or stops responding after the Main Menu' entry, "Solution 3" for the game settings to use instead in the wiki "Fallout NV Mod Conflict Troubleshooting" guide. I also think you need a "merge/bash patch" file to resolve record level conflicts between multiple plugins. Please see the 'Third Rule: The Rule of One', 'Smaller Plugin Cap', and 'Merge Patch file' sections of the wiki "FNV General Mod Use Advice" article. PS: Great job reporting the details. Text book example of what we like to see. -Dubious- Edited August 14, 2017 by dubiousintent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPDGaffney Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) So, I've cleaned up a bit and now have 113 plug-ins active and no others in the folder. I've uninstalled a few mods I wasn't using. I've removed the purging mods as well. The glitch is still as alive as ever and for the first time in all my time playing my modded game, I received an Out of Memory error. Looking over some heap stuff I realise I never actually did any of it and thought I had. Likewise for the purge cells (Ladez actually gave out to me a bit about this months ago, haha). I have a feeling that my game will be more stable after that but I don't know about this dismemberment glitch. I'm currently trying to finish an old file I had which necessitates a lot of the .esp files I have, and once the file is done, I have merged versions of several of those ready to add instead. So, I'm hoping that I can get through this file now and then get started on reducing the plug-ins to below 100. Cos, of course, I have a few more mods I'd like to install. I never made a merge patch as i was never 100% certain I was keeping everything. I suppose there are a few things I could merge, though. Besides the number of plug-ins, is there any danger not to let the plug-ins more or less sort things out based on the order I have them loaded? I realise the load order is a bit messy, but I did arrange the majority of it in a specific order knowing some portions of one plug-in would overwrite records of an earlier one. Is this a dangerous practise in any way besides the number of plug-ins? Thanks. Edit: I should clarify that whenever I've tested for the dismemberment glitch it's been on a new game. Edit 2: Increased Heap Size to 496 in nvse_config.ini as well as NVSR, and did what was recommened in solution 3 as per your last comment, Dubious. Got another Out of Memory error but long after completing the area where I got it last time. I have never seen this error before, only heard of it, and my game should be cleaner than it's been in ages, so I don't really understand what's causing it. The only thing that makes sense is that removing the purge cell buffer mod allowed, whilst probably a good thing, allowed the game to overload. I realise that they're reputed to be too aggressive, so I need something that does the same thing but in a way or to a degree that won't cause problems. The .ini edits probably helped but it would appear that I need more than that. I'll test with the HeapReplacement=0 setting, as I'm pretty sure I remember Roy recommending that. Also, I'm not using the 4GB patcher but I was thinking about it. Can I just delete the 4GB launcher files and patch the vanilla .exe or is there anything else I should know? Edited August 14, 2017 by EPDGaffney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubiousintent Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) RE: Switching from the 4GB Launcher to the Patcher. I didn't even remove the 4GB launcher files. I just copied the original exe back and ran the patcher against it and made a new shortcut. That way I can just use a different shortcut to run either way if needed for testing. When you get an "out of memory" error, you should find a "Windows Error" message in the "EventLog". That will give a clue as to the reason, rather than guessing. Please see the "Windows Error Messages" section of the wiki "How to read most Bethesda game error logs" article. (With 2GB of VRAM, it is possible that you may be exhausting "video memory" if you are using a lot of "high resolution" textures on a large screen resolution.) Also check out the "Issue: Swap/Page file size and CTDs" entry in the "Troubleshooting" guide. Bear in mind that a "merge patch" is different than a "merge plugin" file. The "merge patch" resolves record conflicts. (It may have the benefit of reducing the number of plugins, but that is a "side effect".) The "merge plugin" reduces the number of plugins that are loaded, but does not resolve record conflicts. The "load order" sequence is still important for both. Please see the wiki "Merged Plugin Guidelines for Personal Use" article for more details.I had hoped the dismemberment glitch would disappear when you reduced your plugin count. But if it hasn't cleared up when you are down to 113, then it is unlikely to be due to that. As the problem exists in a "new game", it is either due to some mod or possibly to some setting in an INI file. Easiest to test would be to rename your "Users" folder INI files, and let the game rebuild them by running the "FalloutNVLauncher.exe". Otherwise you would have to engage in "Mod Conflict Isolation". -Dubious- Edited August 14, 2017 by dubiousintent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPDGaffney Posted August 15, 2017 Author Share Posted August 15, 2017 (edited) Thanks a million. I'm about to do the 4GB patch now and try setting that ReplaceHeap line to 0. Speaking of .ini files, I think mine got returned to the default settings somehow. Is there a guide you trust regarding these files? Everything I read seems to be viciously repudiated by the next source I find. I think I more or less had something good when I last edited my .ini files but apparently it's been overwritten and I don't really remember how I determined what would be good. I've reduced my page file size significantly. I've experimented with different values over the years and never seen much difference. I'll make a merge patch and/or merge plug-in soon. Have to look at that link first. Both the mod conflict and .ini file theories would be my first instinct but I have reservations because first, my .ini files seem to have returned to the default state (far as I can tell), and second, I've barely added any new mods, and none that should modify these records. Despite this, I've tried disabling most of the newer ones but had no luck. Now, it is of course possible that this used to be a glitch in my game that I just didn't notice, given what triggers it, but I kind of think that after about 500 hours with most of these mods, I would have seen it anyway (about 900 total hours on Steam from day one, but I estimate 500 hours with all but the newest mods installed). Another weird theory may be that there was a dormant conflict that's been brought out somehow by enabling all the DLCs, of which I used to have only the quest ones installed, not the Tribal Pack and such. A lot of mods require all DLC, so I recently downloaded a mod that distributes the item pack DLCs' content throughout the game and enabled all the DLC content that had been disabled. I only did that a couple of weeks ago, when I went back to the game to make my own mod, unpacked the BSAs, probably overwrote my .ini files via Steam verification, and so on and so forth. I'll test without this stuff and see, though I expect to see duplicated heads still. I did look up the Windows errors but haven't had a chance to look into the codes. I'll leave them here in case they mean anything to you. Unfortunately, none of the faulting modules look particularly useful straight away. Faulting application name: FalloutNV.exe, version: 1.4.0.525, time stamp: 0x4e0d50edFaulting module name: nvac.dll, version: 7.2.1.0, time stamp: 0x542d03ccException code: 0x80000003Fault offset: 0x00005803Faulting process ID: 0xbecFaulting application start time: 0x01d3152ecc746039Faulting application path: Z:\Steam\steamapps\common\Fallout New Vegas\exes\FalloutNV.exeFaulting module path: Z:\Steam\steamapps\common\fallout new vegas\Data\NVSE\Plugins\nvac.dllReport ID: fb63df3b-d2dd-485e-b3df-74c12b240595Faulting package full name:Faulting package-relative application ID: Faulting application name: FalloutNV.exe, version: 1.4.0.525, time stamp: 0x4e0d50edFaulting module name: FalloutNV.exe, version: 1.4.0.525, time stamp: 0x4e0d50edException code: 0xc0000005Fault offset: 0x00929732Faulting process ID: 0x2314Faulting application start time: 0x01d30d60a6e93734Faulting application path: Z:\Steam\steamapps\common\Fallout New Vegas\exes\FalloutNV.exeFaulting module path: Z:\Steam\steamapps\common\Fallout New Vegas\exes\FalloutNV.exeReport ID: fd940dc2-e7e5-4bf2-a5e5-6eb455e4866dFaulting package full name:Faulting package-relative application ID: Edit: Played for a long time with no crashes after doing all the things I said I would. Set a few things to threaded in the .ini as well, as they used to be back when my game was stable and were now returned to 0. Seems to be working. Still have the cloned limbs and heads problem, and I have indeed removed all the DLC item packs as well as two mods that required them as a test for that. As expected, that wasn't the problem. Edited August 15, 2017 by EPDGaffney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubiousintent Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 (edited) The key elements of those Windows errors are the "Exception code" and the "Faulting application/module path". Error: 0x80000003 is commonly caused by incorrectly configured system settings or irregular entries in the Windows registry. See the link. It is apparently being triggered by NVAC.DLL. You may want to check it's download page "comments" to see if anyone else has reported a similar problem. Error: 0xc0000005 is a critical "Access Violation" error that requires your immediate reaction. It can be caused by many things, but the link lists the most common. It is apparently being triggered by the game executable, but with this error the "Faulting application/module" is usually the victim of another bit of code having written outside of it's assigned section of memory (a "memory leak") into the area reserved for the supposedly faulting app. This makes it virtually impossible for anyone without a runtime debugger to trace the originating source of the violation. As for INI settings, it varies depending upon what you need. The information provided in the Tale of Two Wastelands (TTW) Performance Guide covers specific INI settings for a number of different utilities such as the three game INI files, NVSE, the correct version of NVSR to use depending upon your processor, and some nVidia card specific tweaks. These setting seem to be equally helpful for both FNV and FO3 as well as TTW. Please also see the 'Issue: Game in slow motion' entry in the wiki "Fallout NV Mod Conflict Troubleshooting" guide. -Dubious- Edited August 15, 2017 by dubiousintent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPDGaffney Posted August 15, 2017 Author Share Posted August 15, 2017 (edited) Appreciate it. So, I had the game crash twice on me via infinite loading wheel, since posting. I thought maybe some of my threaded settings had overdone it and I've been looking int o .ini edits since then. See, trouble is that for the most part, some of the settings were on 1 by default in one or two of the .ini files, and at 0 in the other(s). I think the only one I changed to 1 that had been on 0 for everything was the multi-threaded audio. I had that at 1 when what I meant to do was to increase the cache. So that's back at 0 and the cache is increased, and I'll be testing in a bit. Do you know anything about the settings regarding cloning models in the background? There are a few background-loading settings with disparities between the .ini files, but for obvious reasons, that's the one that caught my eye. I'm not sure which ones to turn on or what sort of 'clonning' they mean. My limb-duplicating bug sounds like cloning to me, and it certainly doesn't happen in the foreground, but I would expect more of this bug on-line if that were true. Slight update on the bug: I got into a bit of an 'argument' with the Brotherhood of Steel and they lost. So, I left the cell, not testing for this bug, saved, came back, and saw that one of the dismembered people no longer had her clothes on herself. That's strange, I thought, as I didn't remember looting any power armour. Now, she was dismembered in an explosion when she was still alive, so the limbs were not cloned. However, they still had their power armour models but her body didn't, and yet, in her inventory she still had that and no other clothes. I didn't loot anyone, and somehow her armour just didn't display. Suppose it doesn't have to be related, but maybe it is. I kind of think it is. Once I've finished with the other stuff in your post I'm hoping I'll have some time to play, evaluate the session, and finish the game. Once that's done, I can remove several mods that I had to install like seven of eight parts of, for example, and then I can install the combined versions of them. Should bring me under 100 for sure. And I'll probably want to merge some myself now that my load order will be closer to the one I want to use permanently. Thanks again, mate. Edit: I've finished my file and will look into merging some plug-ins. Game seems even more unstable now (the way it plays, not that it's crashing; more lag, both audio and visual, a lot of 0% in VATS when enemies are next to me, stuff like that). Perhaps I'll put the cloning in background back to 1. Bug was still there anyway. The TTW guide says to put the AI threading on, and the S.T.E.P. guide says it crashes your game. I really don't understand why there is so much conflicting information on these .ini files. I have the AI threading on, which I always used to do. Suppose I could try with it off. Edited August 15, 2017 by EPDGaffney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubiousintent Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 (edited) If I'm interpreting you correctly, you are saying you have different values for the same settings in one or more INI files? That will depend upon which file we are speaking about. Before making any changes to the "Falllout_default.ini" (or really any of them) you should first create a "backup copy" so you can compare later with the game original versions. (I usually just make a copy and add something like ".org" to the ".ini" extension.) The "FalloutNVLauncher.exe" uses the "Fallout_default.ini" file in the game folder to create the "Fallout.ini" and "FalloutPrefs.ini" files in the "Users" folder. ("Prefs" is supposed to contain your specific hardware info/settings.) Supposedly the game will always use the files in the "Users" folder, if they exist. But there are some indications that it also looks at the "default" file later as well. This is borne out by some changes not taking effect until they are made in all three files, which is why we typically advise that (after you make a backup). When you "verify local files" it always seems to replace the "default" file from the Steam server, regardless. So, while supposedly you could have different settings between "default" file and the "Users" files, you shouldn't have them between the same settings in both the "Users" files. And the recommendation is to have them the same in all three. From what I have found, all the "clone" settings have to do with "background loading". Your problem is really an unexpected duplication of dismembered limb images. I doubt they are the same thing, but by all means, test away. As for "conflicting" information: that's because there is an incredible amount of difference between different systems, even from the same manufacturer. (The box builders get component parts from various sources at different times.) Add in differences in memory configurations, chip sets, BIOS, clock speeds, video adapters, sound cards, etc., and it's no surprise. What works for one does not necessarily work for another. All you can do is gather what information you can and try different settings by testing them one at a time. If a change doesn't break something, it's probably "okay" to leave it in place. But you should keep a list of what you changed so you can backtrack and reverse them if needed. If you want a stable game, don't make any changes to your setup once you start playing and making "save game" files. Even updates to current mods run the risk of making things unstable after the point they are added. If you do update, ensure you know which save to revert to prior to that update if it goes wrong. Removing mods is particularly risky as they may have made permanent changes to your save game files (replacing vanilla scripts for instance). If you do so, the safest time is once they have run their course and all quests in them have been completed. But you are still running the risk of your game becoming corrupted. Keeping track of your save games at various points is crucial or you WILL have to start a "new" game. -Dubious- Edited August 15, 2017 by dubiousintent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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