New file plugin ESL for Creation Kit (255 mod limit removed)

[pra]

4000 forms? That's FA0 in hex which needs 12 bit (probably the actual limit will be FFF=4095). That could imply that they are planning to use the 20 bits before that for the prefix. That would mean, the limit is 1048575 instead of 255, if you use light mods only. Or, for each normal mod, you could have 4096 light mods. I think that could suffice for quite a while.

[Slostenn]

I'm not happy about the read-only aspect of .esl files, honestly. I make personal tweaks to most of the mods I download. Sure, many mod authors will continue releasing .esp files for their mods, but I can imagine a bunch of people being very interested in the idea of their mod being completely locked down and impossible to modify, despite the inherent irony. That's counter intuitive, in my opinion; reverse engineering and editing mods made by others is how many of us learned to make mods ourselves. I personally have learned far more from reverse engineering and editing mods made by others than I have learned from any tutorial. There's also the fact that modding, at its core, is about tailoring the game to your personal preferences. That becomes significantly harder if you can't tailor the mods themselves to your preferences.

 

I've been more or less okay with the Creation Club so far, but I hadn't considered it potentially opening the door to mod authors locking down their mods and throwing away the key. Granted, it's their choice and if that's what they decide to do I will respect their decision, but it is a decision that I would vehemently disagree with.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Tukster

[yourenotsupposedtobeinhere]

 

All ESL files do is allow for the game to automatically merge records at run time.

 

 

What happens if you remove the mod? Where do the records merged get stored? I would suspect the ESM.

[N7R]

4000 forms? That's FA0 in hex which needs 12 bit (probably the actual limit will be FFF=4095). That could imply that they are planning to use the 20 bits before that for the prefix. That would mean, the limit is 1048575 instead of 255, if you use light mods only. Or, for each normal mod, you could have 4096 light mods. I think that could suffice for quite a while.

 

This should ease your worries about the read only a bit: https://www.reddit.com/r/FalloutMods/comments/6u2qrg/fo4_fallout_4_creation_kit_update_support_for_new/dlq7wu9/

[Reneer]

For the people reading way, way, too much into "read only" bit, think about this: ESM files are "read only" in the CK as well.

 

There isn't going to be any encryption. ESL files aren't going to be "locked down" - you will still be able to modify them to your hearts content in the CK by simply changing a flag in the ESL file and renaming it to an ESP file. All that "read only" means is that the file is marked as "read only" in Windows, which you can easily remove by right-clicking on the file, selecting Properties, and clearing the "read only" checkbox. Of course, it could also be that Bethesda simply stops the CK from editing ESL files instead. So, can we please stop with the doom and gloom? :P

Edited August 18, 2017 by Reneer

[SMB92]

I'm worried about the current breakage of esp files flagged as masters. Apparently this leads to corrupt files. This us real bad news when making precalc patches.

 

I willing to wager they increased the form limit so you could buy tonnes of mods without limit worry. Disappointed that it came down to monetizing mods for them to lift the limit, but so be it. (Don't misinterpret this, I'm not here to talk about CC as a whole.)

[TheCourier13]

Until I know more, I'm not updating jack schit.

Edited August 18, 2017 by TheCourier13

[pra]

 

4000 forms? That's FA0 in hex which needs 12 bit (probably the actual limit will be FFF=4095). That could imply that they are planning to use the 20 bits before that for the prefix. That would mean, the limit is 1048575 instead of 255, if you use light mods only. Or, for each normal mod, you could have 4096 light mods. I think that could suffice for quite a while.

 

This should ease your worries about the read only a bit: https://www.reddit.com/r/FalloutMods/comments/6u2qrg/fo4_fallout_4_creation_kit_update_support_for_new/dlq7wu9/

 

Are you sure you meant to quote me, and not Tukster?

[Tilarium]

I could be wrong, but I don't see the Creation Club competing with free content if all it offers is one-off armor and weapon mods. I see it's strength being the huge Enderal expansion-sized quest mods, projects that are much more likely to be completed if the team is being funded. Those mods are more likely to go over the .esl form limit.

 

Yup, this is how I really see the Creation Club working too, and have sense they announced it. Sure, we'll probably see small mods that add a single item to the game, but I've always figured the main reason for it was for larger mods.. mods that can be considered DLC sized, to be made and by letting the creators charge for them, it encourages them to actually follow through and to do the best they can. Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, FO3, FONV and FO4... I've watched many large mod projects die before ever seeing the light of day because the creators lose interest or the development structure falls apart. I've seen other large mods got pushed out that had great potential but fell short because the creators just gave up and pushed something out. I see the CC as a way for Bethesda to try and encourage these types of mods. You don't get paid if you don't release it and you won't make anything if it's shoddy and nobody buys it. I also see it to allow other studios to make mods/DLC for the game... can you imagine what this could mean for the game? Just picture a studio such as Obsidian making DLC sized mods for FO4.. and future Bethesda games. The ideas, the potential, the CC can be a major game changer.

 

As for the .esl files, I don't care if this is because of the CC or if it was something they have been working on independently or whatever else. This is a great addition to their games and as we start to see smaller mods converting over to it or getting made with it, it's going to completely change the game. I don't know about others, but I'm always at the 255 limit and often finding myself going through the list to remove mods that aren't being used in my current game just so I can go and add another one in.

[BrendonLeCount]

 

I could be wrong, but I don't see the Creation Club competing with free content if all it offers is one-off armor and weapon mods. I see it's strength being the huge Enderal expansion-sized quest mods, projects that are much more likely to be completed if the team is being funded. Those mods are more likely to go over the .esl form limit.

 

Yup, this is how I really see the Creation Club working too, and have sense they announced it. Sure, we'll probably see small mods that add a single item to the game, but I've always figured the main reason for it was for larger mods.. mods that can be considered DLC sized, to be made and by letting the creators charge for them, it encourages them to actually follow through and to do the best they can. Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, FO3, FONV and FO4... I've watched many large mod projects die before ever seeing the light of day because the creators lose interest or the development structure falls apart. I've seen other large mods got pushed out that had great potential but fell short because the creators just gave up and pushed something out. I see the CC as a way for Bethesda to try and encourage these types of mods. You don't get paid if you don't release it and you won't make anything if it's shoddy and nobody buys it. I also see it to allow other studios to make mods/DLC for the game... can you imagine what this could mean for the game? Just picture a studio such as Obsidian making DLC sized mods for FO4.. and future Bethesda games. The ideas, the potential, the CC can be a major game changer.

 

As for the .esl files, I don't care if this is because of the CC or if it was something they have been working on independently or whatever else. This is a great addition to their games and as we start to see smaller mods converting over to it or getting made with it, it's going to completely change the game. I don't know about others, but I'm always at the 255 limit and often finding myself going through the list to remove mods that aren't being used in my current game just so I can go and add another one in.

 

 

The possibility of major content from 3rd party developers is exciting. Bethesda provides some good platforms for it. It also seems like a good route for some aspiring developers to get industry experience.

 

With .esl files, I'm guessing (hoping) that if you compress as you go with the base .esp, it doesn't mix up old form IDs after they've been compressed. That way you could compress after adding new forms without creating a rearranged, incompatible update.