Daggerfall had the right idea.

[Guest deleted2588518]

Lets face the facts. Every TES game since Daggerfall has reduced the RPC factor in each installment on a drastic level.

 

Morrowind was 1/1000th the size of Daggerfall due to the 'quality over quantity' argument. It reduced the players choice of skills, armor and weapon types and crafting. The depth was still noticeable but only seemed to wet your appetite before the big finish. Questing is alright, plenty to do still for such a small explorable area. Spelunking is still rewarding but lack luster. Factions are still rewarding to finish.

 

Oblivion, once again, reduced the playable area, cut away more skill choices, cut more magic, more crafting and armor/weapon choices. Depth here isn't really found. Its hinted at but you never seem to really find it. The main quest sputters out and gives you a mediocre finish. Questing here is lack luster. Spelunking is semi-rewarding even though its those neat mystic Elf ruins. Factions here are not meaningless to complete or use but don't really have impact on the player. You won't miss anything if you skip them.

 

Skyrim, again, reduces the players explorable area, strips the stat system completely, guts the magic system and removes any form of spell making, reduces the players weapon and armor to a laughable level. Alchemy is a shadow of its former self... Factions are ridiculously easy to complete. I did rather enjoy the DB quest line but found that becoming the highest rank practically overnight made my skin crawl.... Also, completing a faction carries absolutely no weight in the world. Its more rewarding to be Thane of a hold than a Guild Master.

 

Now all that negativity needs a bit of brevity to level things out... With each title we do get a more visual experience. From Morrowind to Oblivion to Skyrim, we do manage, thanks mostly in part to the absolutely stellar mod community... to get absolutely stunning visual play grounds. Visually modded, Morrowind is spectacular, Oblivion is captivating and Skyrim is almost breathtaking. If it must fall to the mod community to fix what the industry thinks is acceptable... then so be it. Let them continue to make games for half witted console players and forget their real customer base. When all those console players have moved on to the next battlefield game or whatever half arsed shoot'em-up comes out next... it will be those of us who love the TES games for what they mean to use nostalgically. If not for us, these games would not be as successful as they are today. And due to the absolutely wondrous and infinitely passionate modders, these games are still the best there is in the realm of CRPG. Morroblivion is one example of just how dedicated and nostalgic this mod community has been in the past. I can only sit back and imagine what wonders Skyrim's mod potential will be a year from now.

[Korodic]

I still believe nothing compares to Morrowind. I admit I never played daggerfall, but I don't need to. I was too busy spending hours exploring the many unique cave systems morrowind had and trying to keep my game as stable as possible without killing important people. It was a challegne in itself and it was fair enough. The unique weapons and stuff were actually unique too...

[Iv121]

Lets face the facts. Every TES game since Daggerfall has reduced the RPC factor in each installment on a drastic level.

 

Morrowind was 1/1000th the size of Daggerfall due to the 'quality over quantity' argument. It reduced the players choice of skills, armor and weapon types and crafting. The depth was still noticeable but only seemed to wet your appetite before the big finish. Questing is alright, plenty to do still for such a small explorable area. Spelunking is still rewarding but lack luster. Factions are still rewarding to finish.

 

Oblivion, once again, reduced the playable area, cut away more skill choices, cut more magic, more crafting and armor/weapon choices. Depth here isn't really found. Its hinted at but you never seem to really find it. The main quest sputters out and gives you a mediocre finish. Questing here is lack luster. Spelunking is semi-rewarding even though its those neat mystic Elf ruins. Factions here are not meaningless to complete or use but don't really have impact on the player. You won't miss anything if you skip them.

 

Skyrim, again, reduces the players explorable area, strips the stat system completely, guts the magic system and removes any form of spell making, reduces the players weapon and armor to a laughable level. Alchemy is a shadow of its former self... Factions are ridiculously easy to complete. I did rather enjoy the DB quest line but found that becoming the highest rank practically overnight made my skin crawl.... Also, completing a faction carries absolutely no weight in the world. Its more rewarding to be Thane of a hold than a Guild Master.

 

Now all that negativity needs a bit of brevity to level things out... With each title we do get a more visual experience. From Morrowind to Oblivion to Skyrim, we do manage, thanks mostly in part to the absolutely stellar mod community... to get absolutely stunning visual play grounds. Visually modded, Morrowind is spectacular, Oblivion is captivating and Skyrim is almost breathtaking. If it must fall to the mod community to fix what the industry thinks is acceptable... then so be it. Let them continue to make games for half witted console players and forget their real customer base. When all those console players have moved on to the next battlefield game or whatever half arsed shoot'em-up comes out next... it will be those of us who love the TES games for what they mean to use nostalgically. If not for us, these games would not be as successful as they are today. And due to the absolutely wondrous and infinitely passionate modders, these games are still the best there is in the realm of CRPG. Morroblivion is one example of just how dedicated and nostalgic this mod community has been in the past. I can only sit back and imagine what wonders Skyrim's mod potential will be a year from now.

 

You've got quite a weird understanding of playable area my friend :) . Oblivion was larger than Morrowind (and not smaller) while skyrim is the same size just with custom filled content and high mountains which gives you the feeling of a bigger playing area. I didn't find a lot of reward in finishing the Morrowind guild quests. When it's over - it's over . You cant make endless content.

The Mystic Elves are a custom race made as a mod for oblivion. You are talking about the Ayleids.

 

Also going offensive on the consoles is a bit out of place. Who knows maybe I have 2 skyrims - PC and Xbox versions :P . People who play skyrim on console can still become fans of TES (Though the experience is worse than on PC

Edited June 27, 2012 by Iv121

[Havoc10K]

Lets face the facts. Every TES game since Daggerfall has reduced the RPC factor in each installment on a drastic level.

 

Morrowind was 1/1000th the size of Daggerfall due to the 'quality over quantity' argument. It reduced the players choice of skills, armor and weapon types and crafting. The depth was still noticeable but only seemed to wet your appetite before the big finish. Questing is alright, plenty to do still for such a small explorable area. Spelunking is still rewarding but lack luster. Factions are still rewarding to finish.

 

Oblivion, once again, reduced the playable area, cut away more skill choices, cut more magic, more crafting and armor/weapon choices. Depth here isn't really found. Its hinted at but you never seem to really find it. The main quest sputters out and gives you a mediocre finish. Questing here is lack luster. Spelunking is semi-rewarding even though its those neat mystic Elf ruins. Factions here are not meaningless to complete or use but don't really have impact on the player. You won't miss anything if you skip them.

 

Skyrim, again, reduces the players explorable area, strips the stat system completely, guts the magic system and removes any form of spell making, reduces the players weapon and armor to a laughable level. Alchemy is a shadow of its former self... Factions are ridiculously easy to complete. I did rather enjoy the DB quest line but found that becoming the highest rank practically overnight made my skin crawl.... Also, completing a faction carries absolutely no weight in the world. Its more rewarding to be Thane of a hold than a Guild Master.

 

Now all that negativity needs a bit of brevity to level things out... With each title we do get a more visual experience. From Morrowind to Oblivion to Skyrim, we do manage, thanks mostly in part to the absolutely stellar mod community... to get absolutely stunning visual play grounds. Visually modded, Morrowind is spectacular, Oblivion is captivating and Skyrim is almost breathtaking. If it must fall to the mod community to fix what the industry thinks is acceptable... then so be it. Let them continue to make games for half witted console players and forget their real customer base. When all those console players have moved on to the next battlefield game or whatever half arsed shoot'em-up comes out next... it will be those of us who love the TES games for what they mean to use nostalgically. If not for us, these games would not be as successful as they are today. And due to the absolutely wondrous and infinitely passionate modders, these games are still the best there is in the realm of CRPG. Morroblivion is one example of just how dedicated and nostalgic this mod community has been in the past. I can only sit back and imagine what wonders Skyrim's mod potential will be a year from now.

 

I'm a so called artwork fag, but instead of playing most stunning artistically games, I play PSX and belo games, even old PC games and the likes, why I do that ?

 

Well probably because when I play a game, I want to be entertained, and not "Watch a movie that you can click to change the course of action every few minutes".

 

DOS games/ Snes games/ GBA/ PSX/ PS2. All that is more worth in entertainment than Skyrim MODDED!

I mean it, even if we use mods to fix what Bethesda worked so hard to f*** up, it still pales in comparison to the level of entertainment the old games deliver...still...without fail.

 

The best thing to expose the low level of quality for the games Bethesda and EA release is :

 

 

They delete all threads that has a hint of constructive criticism.

 

 

 

At least Blizzard allows criticism, they don't care though.

Edited June 27, 2012 by Havoc10K

[Guest deleted2588518]

Don't be offended by my console statement. You know the type of players to which I'm referring. And I can't really fault Bethesda on a business level for marketing to those types of players. They will buy anything if you flash it on TV enough times. There isn't anything wrong with a console as a game platform. The TES franchise probably should have been left in the realm of the PC world. I doubt anyone would still be playing the Xbox Morrowind or Oblivion.

 

Also, in Morrowind there wasn't a place I couldn't reach. No mountain too tall I couldn't overcome. I could traverse the entire playable area. Oblivion, on the other hand... without a mod I was stuck on the ground. Mountains were impassable and cut away areas where explorations could reward you with a new cave or dungeon. So I believe it is indeed a smaller area to play with. As for the Elves, it was indeed the Ayleids I was referring to and not the mod. So thanks for correcting me on that. =)

[Guest deleted2588518]

I'm a so called artwork fag, but instead of playing most stunning artistically games, I play PSX and belo games, even old PC games and the likes, why I do that ?

 

Well probably because when I play a game, I want to be entertained, and not "Watch a movie that you can click to change the course of action every few minutes".

 

DOS games/ Snes games/ GBA/ PSX/ PS2. All that is more worth in entertainment than Skyrim MODDED!

I mean it, even if we use mods to fix what Bethesda worked so hard to f*** up, it still pales in comparison to the level of entertainment the old games deliver...still...without fail.

 

The best thing to expose the low level of quality for the games Bethesda and EA release is :

 

 

They delete all threads that has a hint of constructive criticism.

 

 

 

At least Blizzard allows criticism, they don't care though.

 

 

I agree, there is a serious problem with the quality of these games, you wont get any argument out of me on that. And yes, it does seem like Bethesda is doing everything in their power to completely destroy the TES franchise. I will however give the mod community their due. They have managed to fix a lot of the problems in Morrowind, Oblivion and at the very least, made Skyrim playable. I'm willing to bet the mod community can take Skyrim and fix most of its errors. Time will tell.

[Havoc10K]

Majority of bugs was in fact fixed using player-made fixes for said errors.

Bethesda doesn't even seem to care enough to check their forums for tech support, their moderators on the other hand, are being paid to delete every sort of criticism form forums.

 

 

Skyrim could be very playable easily, problem being in it's excessive easy mode. Even on hardest mode, if you are not lvl 10 or below, you can't get past the Giants, but after that, it's actually quite doable, which boggles my mind as to why in the hell do we still care enough to buy their games ?

 

I think the best way to show a game developer how much we dislike them would be to NOT buy any of their new games, that way, maybe the industry will consider a change.

[Guest deleted2588518]

I think the best way to show a game developer how much we dislike them would be to NOT buy any of their new games, that way, maybe the industry will consider a change.

 

There is an obvious answer to that question. If we, and by we I mean those of us who play the game out of nostalgia for the older games. If we stop buying their games we effectively give it over to the 'casual gamer'. And when a franchise is given over to the 'casual gamer', it is reduced to mindless key mashing and visual stimulation. Look at what has happened to PC games over the last decade. They are slowly being replaced by console ports. And when a game is made for a console it is made for the lowest common denominator and the easiest dollar. You have to be a goldfish mentally to find Skyrim difficult. You don't even have to pay attention half the time. Not to mention all the hand holding.

 

If I picked up a quest in Daggerfall and had to find a location... I actually had to look for that location. Find a person? Spend an hour talking to people just to find out they are at an inn. Where in that inn? guess I'll have to talk to some MORE people! Skyrim? Hey, I need to go to this place... Oh look its highlighted on my map.... and whats this? Floating quest markers on this dudes head? He must be the dude I need to talk to... *eye roll*

 

People can't seriously be this stupid for this level of hand holding... I can understand most peoples attention spans are pretty short now days... but seriously? Whats next? Are they going to implement a script so all I have to do is watch my character play the game while I sit on the couch? *facepalm*

[Havoc10K]

I'll gladly hand over new game franchise to the casual-player, because the actual result will be drastic drop in actual quality of the games, and even the casual players will become completely bored out of their minds after a while.

 

I'll gladly play my fav games from old times, because they actually entertain me.

 

On a side note, I hope Blizzard's Diablo3 Servers will burn down with the buildings they stand in.

It's not even a Diablo game :P

[Guest deleted2588518]

On a side note, I hope Blizzard's Diablo3 Servers will burn down with the buildings they stand in.

It's not even a Diablo game :P

 

Actually it is a Diablo game. Infact its Diablo 1 and 2 mashed together. It isn't a new and innovative game... Its the same game with a new paint job.

 

I gave up on Blizzard being able to produce anything after Blizzard North was sold. Vivindi and Activision have absolutely no ability to create anything useful and I refuse to purchase anything with either of the logos. I've also completely stopped all purchases of anything EA. Skyrim was my last PC game purchase from the 'industry'. I've only spent money on the Indy games and dropped a few bucks on the new Shadowrun kick-starter. *drool*

 

I played the hell out of Fallout 3 and New Vegas. Vanilla they are lack luster and boring... but heavily modded they are some of the most fun I've had in ages. Right now I'm spending a lot of time in DaggerXL from the XL Engine team. <http://xlengine.com/> Speaking of Daggerfall... If you haven't played it recently or at all... Grab DosBox and give it a go. Also, if you're a Daggerfall vet and would love it in 3D... Go get the XL Engine and give them a hand with the Alpha. I've put in over a hundred hours playing in the XL Engine and its pretty damn awesome. It isn't without bugs being in Alpha but its worth the time invested to find bugs.

 

But seriously... Daggerfall is an RPG for the ages. Its never been replaced and it sure as hell has never been matched.