Daggerfall had the right idea.

[AgentGrady]

Compelling so I'll give it a go. Thanks for the heads up.

 

Now we need a few mods that put medium armor back in the game. Like.. you know... chainmail?

Keeping with the theme of Daggerfall, I'd like to see a few different styles of each heavy armor type as well. Perhaps the look of plate steel made of Ebony? Or maybe even Dwarven? Elvish armor made in the style of Ebony armor? Glass was introduced in Morrowind. Not that I dislike glass... but perhaps we could have a set of glass that looks like the set from Morrowind? Or maybe its weapons? Different styles of Ebony and not just something that looks out of some Japanese Anime? (totally out of place in Skyrim)

 

Aside from the Dungeons, (which I made a request in the mod forum about already.. and boy would I love to delve into a Daggerfall sized dungeon in Skyrim! XD) We need to bring back those old weapon types. Flails anyone? There is a mod called 'Weapons of the Third Age' that I highly recommend everyone download. It brings back a lot of the weapons from past games. Again, shitty single style for each material... I would personally love to see a greatsword in the style of the skyforged steel in Ebony or even Deadric! Oh, and speaking of deadra... Has anyone seen one in Skyrim? The Stendarr Cult walks the country side professing to hunt them... but I have seen hide nor hair of one. A few shrines, sure... Have I run across one after stealing something off said shrine ala Morrowind? nope.

 

Also, considering Daggerfall... We need to figure out a way to replace this Health/Magica/Stamina (consolitis run rampant... I swear..) and see if we can bring back a credible stat system required by any game to be considered an RPG...

 

Have to be careful because this isn't the mod request forum and I don't want to get overly excited spewing out ideas in the wrong thread.... >.>

 

Sounds good, Kudos. If this mod were to be made you should also bring back the advantage and disadvantage character creation system that Daggerfall had. It's one of the things that made character creation truly great in Daggerfall.

[Havoc10K]

We all know what the game needs, thing is, Bethesda doesn't care.

[AgentGrady]

We all know what the game needs, thing is, Bethesda doesn't care.

 

Exactly Bethesda have become almost as bad as EA.

 

[edit]

 

Could also be Bethesda in a nustshell.

 

Edited June 30, 2012 by AgentGrady

[SpotNL]

Yes, AgentGrady, it's a well-known fact that game developers of the past were philantropical organizations, that only cared in making art, no matter what the cost. *sigh*

 

It's all business 101, guys. Sure, it would be possible to make a game like Daggerfall, but not with the graphics we see in Skyrim, not with good voicework. Most people would rather have - for a new game anyway- better graphics than a huge world with little in it. Sure, Skyrim could lend a lot from past games, and I would applaud it if they'd return, but you have to remember; gaming has evolved. No longer does it cater to a niche following, no longer is it obscure and no longer is it relatively cheap to make (if you want to follow today's quality standard, at least). A lot of people should like it, for a game to sell well. And selling well is the only thing that matters when you run a business. Remember, your idea of 'fun' is not an absolute and universal concept.

 

Yeah, yeah, dictatorship of the majority, but that's how the world works. Maybe, in 10-20 years we look at this time and shake our heads, see this age as growing pains, when we play in our rpg's the size of Europe. In the meantime, keep your eyes on DaggerXL. It might suit you :)

 

Anyway, above all, we should applaud Bethesda for at least giving a lot of modders a serious platform to do what they want. At least they give you the option to change your game fairly easily. Unlike most games, that crash when you install more than one mod. Hell, even n00bs like me can change their Skyrim almost unrecognizably, without too much sweat involved.

[Veltoss]

I support the previous ideas for implementing more Daggerfall-like changes :thumbsup: Especially the new armor and weapon types..

[Rennn]

I don't know... EA is pretty bad. Bethesda would practically have to release TESV-Gunz of the Nordz as dlc to be as bad as them.

 

I do support the aforementioned changes though.

Edited July 1, 2012 by Rennn

[Havoc10K]

The reason why Bethesda removed the stat system is because they messed up this system in Oblivion. Due to super easy way of leveling they designed in Oblivion you could quickly become far stronger than anything mortal or immortal. For example, I been running for several days from town to town, I got my speed stat to 190! After that I could easily fight anything I ever wanted and no one could even land a hit on me. Another thing they messed up and removed was Spell Crafting and Proper Enchanting. For example, they removed Chameleon spell making it impossible to enchant, why they did this ? Because in Oblivion I had a whole set of armor enchanted with Chameleon 20% spell, rendering me practically an invincible assassin, no one except Vampires could fight me.

 

This is how Bethesda does things sadly, they don't fix their mistakes, they run from them, drop them off and do something without considering how big a change not doing it makes.

 

From now on, I will not buy a single game from them.

[Guest deleted2588518]

I'm going to get some flack for this...

 

Here is the problem I see with current marketing of any product that only has a small dedicated base of consumers. You don't go and try to make it so everyone likes it... You make it so that those few dedicated consumers want it.. tell their friends about it.. and bring more people INTO THAT CONSUMER BASE.. They will do it FOR YOU.

If you constantly make bad choices in an attempt to make the product as widely marketed as possible... the only outcome is a depletion of your original consumer base...

 

Example: I own a sandwich shop in a small suburban town. I make a decent profit on the consumers that buy my product. They love it so much they bring their friends to eat at my place. Some of them like it, and I gain a new customer. Some of them aren't impressed or have different tastes and don't come back.

 

Now I have two choices. I can do my very best to improve on the system I have now and make the people I have as happy as possible. Because, you know... they are the ones keeping me in business... -OR- maybe I could purchase a franchise and bring in a huge brand name that provides massive marketing but provides bland, cheap and perhaps unhealthy sandwiches in an attempt to make more money. Completely losing my original customer base in the process.

 

Business 101 would tell you that option two is the obvious choice because it means maximum profit at minimum cost. Screw the cattle. They are only walking cash pots anyways and hold no value outside of providing us with funds.

 

 

You see back in the day when PC gaming was a very small market and only a few people could afford a PC to play games... The game industry (PC) was very much option 1. They knew the small customer base was what kept them in business and it was only fitting that they should give those customers what they wanted. Once PCs became a common thing in the average household... Larger companies (not the people making the games) noticed a market possibility and started buying up game makers. Now we have companies like EA, Activision, etc, who's only function is to make money. They don't care who buys it only how many people buy it. And most people like making money over making games.

 

Ranting here... sorry.

 

Back to the topic of Daggerfall... The stat system. Yep, broken by the time you get to Oblivion but only because they implemented the system where if you use that stat it levels on its own. This is the flaw that broke the system. You can't have a stat that levels itself. (especially something like speed because the character runs 99.99999% of the time) The stat system needs to be static until level-up. When you can assign points to those areas you think you need improving. The perk trees (talent trees, seriously... can we stop emulating D2 here please?) need to go... This isn't Diablo and it sure as hell isn't an MMO.

 

(http://www.uesp.net/dagger/hints/dagchar.shtml#stat)

STRENGTH

Strength governs encumbrance, weapon damage and the ease of increasing strength-related skills.

+damage (modifier is factored into your hand-to-hand / weapon damage).

+encumbrance (kilograms is your maximum encumbrance).

 

INTELLIGENCE

Intelligence governs total magic potential and the ease of increasing intelligence-related skills.

0 out of 0 spell points are available for casting.

 

WILLPOWER

Willpower governs resistance to spell effects and the ease of increasing willpower-related skills.

+magic resistance (modifier is factored into your magical resistance).

 

AGILITY

Agility governs ability to hit a target, to avoid getting hit, and the ease of increasing agility-related skills.

+to hit/AC (modifier is factored into your combat odds).

 

ENDURANCE

Endurance governs hit points, healing rate, resistance to poisons and diseases, and fatigue.

+hit points (modifier is factored into the number of hit points you gain each level).

+healing (modifier is factored into your healing rate).

 

PERSONALITY

Personality governs the ease of increasing personality-related skills.

 

SPEED

Speed governs movement rate, missile reloading time, and all speed-related skills.

 

LUCK

Luck is a powerful modifier to any action you take. There are no skills in which luck is the primary attribute, but your odds of succeeding in any skill trial is modified by your luck.

 

 

You level, you get a handful of points (based on your Intel I believe) to assign to those core attributes. THIS, this is what progresses your character to be stronger. Unfortunately, in Skyrim... The system is based on how much you use a specific skill. And honestly, does streamline character creation. I'm not suggesting we create a class system for skyrim. No. What I suggest is we take the current 'be what ever you want without class designators' idea and IMPROVE on it. No, you shouldn't have to chose a class but you should have to put points into the things you want to use. I wouldn't fully remove the perks either.. but instead integrate them so that you get them automatically when you gain a specific level in that skill. (removing the need to place those points) This way, we keep the perks of being highly skilled without the unneeded management of those perks. If I'm 100 in lockpicking... It should automatically be easier to pick master locks... *eye roll* There is a mod that I use that does remove the need for placement of perk points.. Auto Perk Point. This does, however streamline the game to a point that skills become an after thought. If there was any argument as to why Skyrim isn't an RPG, this mod proves it hands down. Take away your ability to place perk points and placement of hp/stam/mp and you successfully prove that Skyrim is nothing more than a FPS in a medieval setting. No real character depth, just fast paced, mace to face action. If you use magic it becomes even more abundantly clear. Heretic anyone? (god I do love that game tho...)

 

In the same hand, I shouldn't be managing my health/stamina/magika because those attributes should be taken care of BY PROXY of the STAT SYSTEM... Hey, my Intel went up.. more spell points! Or I need more strength so I lay the smackdown on critters that much harder! Or, as a prospective thief, you should be working on your agility and endurance so you can sneak and carry massive amounts of loot. Allowing me to just dump 10pts in health every level means I can do absolutely nothing else and have so much health that fighting enemies becomes pointlessly easy. The same could be said for Stamina. Why fight when I can just sprint away from you... Indefinitely... (its not like NPCs offer XP when I kill them anyways..)

 

I would imagine that adding a stat system on top of the current perk system is possible instead of a complete replacement. Auto Perk proves that it can be managed quite easily. Simply add a UI overlay that displays your characters stats and have those stats manage the health/stam/mag. Skills could be managed in the same manor that Auto Perk does. Though I would drastically reduce the level of XP one gets from a successful use so that your character isn't a monsoon of level ups.

 

I could keep going... but I think this has gotten long enough. I'll post back later.

[Havoc10K]

Originally, Agility was the only other weapon damage factor for Bows and Crossbows, High Agility made you more adept at Marksmanship (ranged combat utilizing bows & arrows and Crossbows &bolts)

 

I'm currently playing Daggerfall and i'm having problems with climbing, not always working is making me sad panda :(

The fact that it's height related and not skill % only is making this game so much win.

 

Currently 34% climbing, I can't climb some higher walls :( gotta train those city walls some more, and of course avoid arrows and guards :)

 

Some ruins are good for climbing practice, sadly training swimming, jumping and climbing at this point is time consuming, but then again, in some dungeons, climbing is more useful than finding stairs or elevators or some passages :)

 

 

Now I might be a heretic and blasphemer but I would love for Monolith to make Rage of Mages 3 :)

[WTinsley]

I don't fast-travel because it breaks my immersion, so I either walk, ride, or take a carriage everywhere.

If there were more open-space, then I would be even more frustrated.