LE Economy mod?

[JoTheVeteran]

I see allot of great ideas for mods here, and there are already out some that make a difference in the game. I personally like the most immersive ones, like "warzones" and "sounds of skyrim", but how about some economy too? It struck as odd to me as of why this hasn't been implemented already by Bethesda itself. They did brag about on how they created the perfect action game, stealth game, assassin game, RPG... well good RPGs should have a live economy system running right? I don't know if that's even possible here but what would you guys say to something like that:

 

1.I make a sword, let's call it "Uber Decapitator v2.3b6 (why the weird name? just read on), and then sell it to a blacksmith, their apprentice or any other gen goods merchant for that matter.

2.Now each week/day, a trader has to pass by the city, and collect some of the stuff the blacksmith has, or any of the other traders. And he does that by trading them gold and/or raw materials relevant with their profession in exchange for some of their inventory. That NPC has to be implemented I guess, because no trader I've see actually does that, they just spawn their goods automatically every x hours/days, which kinda sucks as a realism factor.

3.That trader then exits the city and roams the wastes meeting random patrols, other NPC's or even bandits with weak equipment. You ask now, why don't the bandits just kill him right and take his stuff? Well they kinda depend on him to bring them new/better equipment, because they themselves can't enter cities, so they just tolerate buying the stuff that he has instead, with either gold, or raw materials like ores of alchemical ingredients, which he then brings to the city merchants to repeat the cycle.

4.I fight the bandit gang at some point in the game and, after the battle, one of the burned up, dismembered corpses has a sword called "Uber Decapitator v2.3b6"!

5. LEGENDARY AWESOMENESS ACHIEVED!!!!

 

Now I know very basic programming, and even less modding but I think this can be done, in a very basic level in the beginning at least. It won't be pretty, with caravans, and traders with appropriate dialog, and a billion other mini things that I can't even think of now (afterthoughts), but in time it could be one of the most impressive mods. It would bring a level of immersion that can't be accounted and very few games have. Just think of the endless possibilities this could bring.

 

Afterthoughts

[Dialog can be put appropriately as to why the bandits won't kill the merchant]

[The bandits can mine ores themselves, or actually strip rob passer byes that might have some of those, not just kill them and leave them there]

[The patrols could do the same to bandit gangs]

[Old/weak weapons could be sold to blacksmiths by merchants, to be smelted into ingots for better weapons making, depending on the Dovahkiin's level]

[blacksmiths should actually WORK, not just bang their anvil and produce nothing, they should create stuff. And if they don't have raw materials maybe rest, sleep, eat and drink or even take long walks outside the cities in search of ores. I guess they should be immortal for that]

[Lots and LOTS of other stuff]

 

So what do you guys say?

Edited March 6, 2012 by JoTheVeteran

[worldofscotty]

It's an amazing idea but it is absolutely huge. It's really not basic stuff.

[JoTheVeteran]

Well, I think it is, if someone starts from just one city + one route + 3-4 spawn points. It doesn't have to be the whole map at once but at least to work on a very small scale. Then expanding gradually will cover bigger and bigger areas till it's finished.

The problem is that I don't know if such a thing can be done in the first place. I mean, sure you make a weapon, where does this weapon info go next? Is it stored in some file or is it lost during the next inventory refresh. I know it's lost now but can it be preserved somehow or is it stored only in RAM or some temp cache? If someone can mess around with that and achieve preserving it, then I'm sure the whole undertaking can be done as well.

[worldofscotty]

Each vendor has an inventory box which is linked to their personal inventory. The box just simply respawns after a set period refreshing everything in the box giving random items based on a few categories

 

You can easily set those boxes to not respawn anymore basically giving them a set inventory but the problem then is that you need to somehow have vendors offloading these items when your filling them up or they will just run out of gold.

 

Really complex is the scripting to have items be passed around vendors worldwide

[JoTheVeteran]

That script is gonna be a %^^@!@ indeed, that's what I also thought.

As for the gold part, there's gonna be an infinite flow of gold in the system from certain parties and the player you know. When you kill a gang of bandits and take their gold, they respawn at a certain time, with some gold in their inventory already, and when they kill a passerby he respawns... Gold isn't really a problem here but, in case the whole system actually stops, waiting for a next inflow of coin... well, that's kinda how real life economies work also, right? Pretty cool stuff huh?

Another solution would be for the shops to have a standard amount of spawned gold at the beginning of each cycle. That way, the gold they will make, and the one they have already, would be more that enough to work till the next cycle. That amount of spawned gold could be hidden as to not be taken by the player.

There are many many tweaks that can be done to make this work, but the script inventory thing? I have no idea on where to start with that.

 

Shame on Bethesda though. They DID promise to create some kind of economy in their E3 presentation for the game. Liar bastards!

Edited March 7, 2012 by JoTheVeteran

[muttiniraq]

I like the idea Jo, But this is well beyond me.

[JoTheVeteran]

That's ok, at least you're interested, maybe some others that can actually make this work will also read this.

Hell, I might just even try to build it myself, I'm so fired up! And I know close to nothing about scripting that advanced but still...

Oh man oh man, it will make the game SO alive!

[xDarkAuthorx]

There was/is a mod that did exactly this for Oblivion, even includes different prices by city and a supply and demand system. It linked up perfectly with the Tamriel Travellers mod, too. Anyway, if it could be done with Oblivion, it could certainly be done with Skyrim. I'm tempted to try this myself (I have experience with modding from F03, New Vegas and Oblivion) but I'm still a relative N00b, so I don't think I could pull this off without seriously butchering it in the process to make it work...especially since a mod that literally creates a thriving in game economy with looters, traders and a real supply and demand system deserves to be excellent quality.

 

I really hope one of the good modders picks this up. Wich I could remember who made the one for Oblivion, but I don't want to go check at the moment. When I find out, I'll give him a write and see if he's moved to Skyrim. If he has, maybe he'll take this on.

 

Edit: It was TheNiceOne who made that mod. I'll write him and point him here.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Dark_Author

[Mystra007]

I wanted to do a basic economy mod inspired by DMG II 3.5 business rules.

Basically each merchant would have a chest with money, and money would be added based on their

business skills, number of helpers, location, what quests you did, etc...

ie: The Warmaiden would get extra profit if you sided with the imperials because their orders

are now flourishing thanks to you.

 

The money could then be used by the merchant to upgrade his shop (extra income in the future),

improve their barter money, buy new furnitures (go from glazed clutter to gold clutter for example,

and get noble-type furnitures), buy extra guards/bodyguards, upgrade their shop locks, etc...

 

Bandit and intelligent NPCs would get those as well - ie: anything that might realistically trade with

the cities in the Holds.

 

That would give a basic foundation on which to build in the future - what do you think? sounds good?

I had an idea that Nazeem could be a moneylender in Whiterun based in his Wintersand Manor - he's

the jarl advisor on the town economy because he's the center of it. He could buy/sell you gold/silver bars

at a 5% fee (ie: sell to him at 95% buy at 105% instead of using bartering) because those are trade bars.

 

It would probably be compatible with a companion supply/demand system too - because it just add/remove

gold to a chest based on a number of profit variables and allow you to take part in it.

 

Here are some calculations I already made:

Farms income is really low because farms in skyrim are as big as gardens... They also have a lot of debt (about 1/3 of income per week).

Market stall get a low income too - no protection from theft, costumers cannoot sit somewhere, no protection from elements, etc...

 

Those are _average profit per week_, average income is 6.5 to 10x that. When looking at these numbers keep in mind that any dude in skyrim

can cut 6 wood in 8 minutes and make 5 septims on each. Thats about 225 septims an hour just for cutting wood. If the same dude is chilling

around gloombound that would be about 3000 septims an hour (assuming the mine owners let you take 3 pieces from each vein for free and

the vein contains more than 3 pieces).

 

WHITERUN (estimated weekly tax income: 16000 septims/week)

========

 

Chillfurrow Farm: ~ 90 septims/week

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Battle-born farm: ~ 128 septims/week (shared with the Battle-born noble family)

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Pelagia farm: ~ 102 septims/week

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Arcadia Cauldron ~ 890 septims/week

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Carlotta Valentia ~ 51 septims/week

-----------------------------------

Fralia Gray-Mane ~ 305 septims/week (shared with the Gray-Mane noble family)

-----------------------------------

Eorlund Gray-Mane ~ 890 septims/week (shared with the companions and the Gray-Mane noble family)

------------------------------------

Belethor ~ 128 septims/week

----------------------------

Warmaiden's ~ 765 septims/week (shared with Steward when Whiterun is neutral)

------------------------------

Companions hall ~ 1785 septims/week + trainers cut (40%)

--------------------------------------------------------

 

Stony-Creek Cave ~ 408 septims/week (shared with nearby imperial camp (protection racket))

====================================================================

 

Orotheim ~ 357 septims/week

======================

Edited March 8, 2012 by Mystra007

[JoTheVeteran]

That'd be awesome Dark_Author, I'd really like for this idea to take off. I'm sure everyone will like the concept of a live economy even if they haven't actually though of it themselves, but when they see it in action... oh man!

 

Mystra007, you took it to the next level man. Money lending and taxation? Wow! I haven't thought of that at all but... won't that make the mod WAY more complicated?

I would like it to start at first with a very basic resource trade system.

 

Ore mined by NPC <-> Passing trader takes for gold <-> Blacksmith buys for more gold / makes sword <-> Passing trader buys for even more gold <-> Bandit buys for the most gold.

Values

1 Ore <-> 1 gold <-> 3 gold <-> 6 Gold <-> 9 Gold.

 

Profits

Miner : -9 Gold + 1 sword (They die to easily and they re-spawn with some gold in their inv. Also, they would sell more than one ore but get only one sword.)

Trader : +5 Gold

Blacksmith : +3 Gold

 

(Actually calculating this very simple chain made me see once again how the middle-man makes the most cash. Astonishing!)

 

The NPCs would never run out of gold that way, so they could upgrade the way you said it, when reaching a certain amount of gold for each profession. And as long as you, the player, roams around, killing bandits or other patrols, the others that would spawn in their place with low grade equipment, would be forced to mine/steal and thus sustain the cycle.

 

That way, let's say you're just level 30, and you were to leave a certain region for a whole game month and then return. You could then find, all powerful bandits with enchanted super weapons, some of which YOU made, getting their stuff but myriads of wealthy traders, accompanied by the highest level of bodyguards, getting their inventory from blacksmiths able to make even DAEDRIC/DRAGON weapons/armor if demanded! Holy molly, that'd be crazy indeed!

But to add even more to it just for kicks, let's just pretend this could be made to work together with the War Zones - Civil Unrest mod at a time. Just oh-my-GOD! Pure chaos!!

 

 

All and all thanks for your support guys, I hope to hear even more from you and the rest of the community.

Edited March 8, 2012 by JoTheVeteran