People on welfare, what is a good way to root out the life stylers?

[Marxist ßastard]

...They can't make anymore business in the western world because here they are given bad conditions. To high taxes, to many regulations... I would love to open a business and hire some people here in the west, but it isn't allowed to just start enterprise without regulations, laws, taxes this and that.

Ease of Doing Business Index rankings (World Bank):

 

http://i.imgur.com/W7UtJ.png

[dunmermaiden]

Now, I dont know how bad drugs are in your guys nations, but over here in New Zealand there are a lot of people on welfare who use the money to buy Weed/Pot or w/e you call it.

 

The welfare system is just bread and circus, holding the population down. You can't reduce pooverty by making it rewarding. Here is your bread, and here is your TV. Now vote for the socialists next election.

 

By the way, why should the government be allowed to take money from me, which must work, to give it to other people? If some of my friends would have a bad time, making ants meat, than i would help him. And he would try to be a lesser burden.,

 

But some people which just get their welfare checks every month, i don't see any progress on these people exept they are tuning into a class of depentend rabble.

 

 

dunmermaiden

You can bury your head in the sand to the facts however the truth of the situation remains is that China's cheap labour is taking away jobs in our country.

This is missleading. Business isn't leaving the western world because the Red Chinese give them better conditions, its because they can't make anymore business in the western world because here they are given bad conditions. To high taxes, to many regulations. The big Companies are the first ones which run away because they can afford it, the small ones just would get bankrupt and than we end up like a secound world country where everything in the big supermarkets was produced in china.

 

I would love to open a business and hire some people here in the west, but it isn't allowed to just start enterprise without regulations, laws, taxes this and that.

 

No you are wrong, these laws and regulations are what protects the western countrys workers from receiving pittance in wages like the cheap labour in China, India and the other cheapy places. It's like yeah sure get rid of the employment laws and minimim wages and the employment courts and then watch us sink into how china operates with it's 20 cent a hour jobs and watch the factorys become sweat shops and people unable to afford to live even working.

 

Stuff that! Employment laws are making it more expensive to companys to do business however it's more fair and just than China's appalling work conditions. Heck their govt doesn't give a stuff about their citizens in allowing this cheap labour making corperate rich yes, but rich because it's robbing the poor worker of decent wages.

 

I have no problem with world trade but only if it's a even playing field and with China and India and places like that undercutting on labour costs it just is wrong. Morally and Ethically wrong.

 

People are more important than money.

[sukeban]

@Maiden + Moveing

 

To to fair, cost of living definitely isn't comparable between NZ, AUS, UK, or USA and China, India, etc. If Chinese factory workers made the prevailing English or American wage, they would be... living rather ostentatiously vis-a-vis the rest of their societies. That said, it is totally true that labor and (especially!) environmental regulations are practically non-existent in either case, and that this failure to account for or to price the negative externalities associated with industry definitely does artificially decrease the "cost of doing business" in these countries vis-a-vis the West.

 

Labor costs, however, don't account for the entire shift in manufacturing away from the West. China also has tight capital controls (promotes reinvesting in China rather than repatriating profits back to home country) as well as an artificially low valuation of its currency (promotes exports), both of which create a rather more attractive destination for capital versus, say, Cincinnati or Manchester. China also has a new and modern infrastructure and has developed regional manufacturing hubs and specializations, allowing their businesses to benefit from the advantages of industrial geography.

 

However, starting a business (based loosely upon a year of living there, aka purely an anecdote*) in China isn't so simple, as @Bastard's chart illustrates. There are lots of petty officials and functionaries that it's imperative to bribe in order to obtain essential permits and licenses. And given that "communism" essentially = "smothering bureaucracy," this can potentially include many, many different people. Add to this the, to put it charitably, "tenuous" status of private property and regulation in China, and it becomes in one's best interests to make additional gifts to local functionaries to ensure that no "unforeseen" problems arise. If you're an MNC with unlimited resources to spend on bribes/gifts, this might be acceptable, but for the man in the street it could possibly become more of a headache than it is worth.

 

*Transparency International lists China as the 75/182 most corrupt country. However, when you are competing against the likes of Colombia and Gambia, you have more or less already lost.

Edited March 11, 2012 by sukeban

[dunmermaiden]

Yeah well I remember the goods made in NZ and in the western countrys were goods made to last and indeed the old Fisher and Paykel washing machines of that era still work and the old tv's.

Now since the manufacturing is done in places like China I'm "lucky" if my goods last a year before they wear out and the cost of repairing it outweighs the cost of buying a new one.

 

I know which I prefer, back to the good old days where things were built to last...none of this rubbish that winds up cluttering the landfills because it's rubbish to begin with.

 

Sure it costs more ( in the day ) to go with the older goods that were made in the western countrys but they last a lot longer than todays rubbishy goods that pollute our enviroment and take up space in the landfills.

 

*grumble grumble *

[sukeban]

Yeah well I remember the goods made in NZ and in the western countrys were goods made to last and indeed the old Fisher and Paykel washing machines of that era still work and the old tv's.

Now since the manufacturing is done in places like China I'm "lucky" if my goods last a year before they wear out and the cost of repairing it outweighs the cost of buying a new one.

 

I know which I prefer, back to the good old days where things were built to last...none of this rubbish that winds up cluttering the landfills because it's rubbish to begin with.

 

Sure it costs more ( in the day ) to go with the older goods that were made in the western countrys but they last a lot longer than todays rubbishy goods that pollute our enviroment and take up space in the landfills.

 

*grumble grumble *

I am completely with you on this. I would rather have fewer high-quality goods than many cheap throwaways. There is also that little peace of mind that comes from knowing that your purchases won't kill you due to chemical leeching or otherwise being poisoned due to shoddy quality control or dodgy manufacturing processes. And the understated, if perhaps parochial, contentment of knowing that somebody from your own country made said product and is making a good living because of it. A far better feeling than the creeping guilt associated with knowing that your new iPad was assembled by a person who will probably develop crippling arthritis in their hands by the time they turn 17.

Edited March 11, 2012 by sukeban

[dunmermaiden]

Yeah well I remember the goods made in NZ and in the western countrys were goods made to last and indeed the old Fisher and Paykel washing machines of that era still work and the old tv's.

Now since the manufacturing is done in places like China I'm "lucky" if my goods last a year before they wear out and the cost of repairing it outweighs the cost of buying a new one.

 

I know which I prefer, back to the good old days where things were built to last...none of this rubbish that winds up cluttering the landfills because it's rubbish to begin with.

 

Sure it costs more ( in the day ) to go with the older goods that were made in the western countrys but they last a lot longer than todays rubbishy goods that pollute our enviroment and take up space in the landfills.

 

*grumble grumble *

I am completely with you on this. I would rather have fewer high-quality goods than many cheap throwaways. There is also that little peace of mind that comes from knowing that your purchases won't kill you due to chemical leeching or otherwise being poisoned due to shoddy quality control or dodgy manufacturing processes. And the understated, if perhaps parochial, contentment of knowing that somebody from your own country made said product and is making a good living because of it. A far better feeling than the creeping guilt associated with knowing that your new iPad was assembled by a person who will probably develop crippling arthritis in their hands by the time they turn 17.

 

Kudo's for saying all of that which I hold dear in my own personal values. The poor person making the ipad, this is exactly why employment laws and regulation and high taxs and fines are needed to ensure that the poor worker has decent conditions of employment and the high tax's support people that need help.