Which Side is right??

[yota71]

. And if you think about it...Morrowind started with you as an illegal imigrant, Oblivion with you in jail, Skyrim almost getting your head chopped off...next Elder Scrolls will probably start with you beeing dead

 

That's true, in every TES games the PG had a bad beginning, next time we will start in Sovngrade (or something similar, maybe a daedric reign)

[robanybody2000]

Nobody here knows what they're talking about. Stormcloaks are "right", plain and simple.

 

Stormcloaks-

 

Ulfric killed a king with his voice...

The second in command for the Stormcloaks wears a bear on his head.

It's always more fun to rebel.

Stormcloaks are better at activities. (burning, fighting, talking to chicks)

 

Imperials-

 

Imperials hate freedom.

Imperials hate puppies.

An imperial is twice as likely to get your sister pregnant.

They look like Romans.

Romans are ineffectual. They proved this by dying many years ago.

 

I hope this has cleared things up for people.

 

Ulfric killed a king with his voice...(so do you, with a dagger, on a ship)

The second in command for the Stormcloaks wears a bear on his head.(so does a bear)

It's always more fun to rebel.(rebel, kill, steal, extort, assault...)

Stormcloaks are better at activities. (burning, fighting, talking to chicks) - farming, tending sheeps, etc. -

 

Imperials hate freedom.(Ulfric had named himself High King -???-)

Imperials hate puppies.(so do i)

An imperial is twice as likely to get your sister pregnant.(i don't have a sister)

They look like Romans.(it's shallow to judge someone by looks)

Romans are ineffectual.They proved this by dying many years ago.(after rulling the greatest empire for over 1000 years)

[yota71]

Romans are ineffectual.They proved this by dying many years ago.(after rulling the greatest empire for over 1000 years)

 

 

Kudos for you sir :)

[RedRavyn]

You know ... there's plenty of dirt to sling around in Skyrim. In a way, I actually like this design philosophy by Bethesda. Let's look at the factions:

 

Imperials: The Emperor sold out the Empire to the Aldmeri Dominion, plain and simple. However, he did it to save the Empire, which couldn't withstand another Aldmeri attack. Now the Thalmor are scouring Skyrim (presumably all of the Empire) rooting out worshippers of Talos and they aren't even part of the Empire, even though the Empire is allowing it to happen. On top of this, as a related event, you have the Vigilants of Stendar, who are at least accepted, if not sanctioned, by the Empire doing the same with anyone connected with Daedra worship, even though not all the Daedric Princes are "bad guys".

 

Stormcloaks: Ulfric is as much a bigot as anyone in the game. He's the Jarl of Windhelm. He has the power to stop the prejudice, but has refused to do it. Dunmer are restricted to living in a slum. Argonians are not treated any better. Khajiit aren't allowed within the city (unless the Khajiit in question also happens to be Dovakiin). As High King you can bet that things will go from bad to worse for any non-Nords living in Skyrim. Still, he's a patriot -- fighting for Skyrim's freedom over the tyranny of the Dominion, although his anger seems to be directed at anyone and everything not native to Skyrim.

 

Other: However, even Nords are not native to Skyrim. Has Ulfric forgotten his battle against the Foresworn? They were in Skyrim before the Nords and fought for their independence from Nordic rule. Hey, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Right? It's OK for Ulfric to kick the Empire out of Skyrim, but it's not OK for the Foresworn to kick the Nords out of the Reach? Anyone see a little problem with that line of thought? However, the Foresworn are barbarians, preying upon the weak and defenseless. Wait. The Stormcloaks and Imperials are doing the same thing. At a certain inn in a certain village you'll learn that both Imperials and Stormcloaks have committed atrocities upon the people of Skyrim. Reminds you a bit of the war in Viet Nam, doesn't it?

 

Conslusion: Someone in the game (can't remember who) said something like "There are no innocent people ... only guilty ones and dead ones". That's a paraphrase. I've only heard it once (maybe someone in the Dark Brotherhood?). It fits this game perfectly. I absolutely detest the fact that the developers chose to force both faction quests (Join the Stormcloaks and Join the Imperials) upon the player. That's bad game design, although it's endemic to this game, with many quests being forced down our throats just because we happen to hear a conversation. Let me choose which side I want to favor ... or, in my case, to side with neither (and not have those quests cluttering up my journal). I can't look favorably upon either side. Both are wrong ... or, at least, they're going about addressing a problem (at its base, the outlawing of the worship of of one of the Nine Divines) wrongly.

 

Personal Observations: I'd like to see (1) Skyrim secede from the Empire and to have Talos worship re-instated, (2) Ulfric executed as the war criminal he is (I don't care that he defeted the former High King in honorable combat -- that's not releveant here), and (3) let everyone get back to their lives, but that doesn't happen in the game. Even after finishing the civil war questline the Thalmor are still preying on Talos worshippers, the Vigilants of Stendar are still preying on Daedra worshipers, and the Forsworn are still preying on everyone. Nothing changes, really -- sort of like nothing changed with the White Gold Concordat, with the Empire yielding every single point to the Aldmeri Dominion. Altogether a very unsatisfactory conclusion for this game. Still, I love the fact that there is no clear-cut right or wrong in the choice you make (or don't make) in the civil war. In this sense, Bethesda did it right.

Edited March 25, 2012 by RedRavyn

[Pentigan]

Above: The Forsworn aren't native to the entire of Skyrim, only the Reach. We might have to wait for DLC to follow through on the Civil War questline.