jet4571 Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 A chest to add config books wouldn't work because load order. the last mod installed would be the only one in it. Bad config ideas:Console commands are immersion breakers.Spells clutter the spell inventory. Good Config Ideas:Books placed in the world can be put on a bookshelf at home and forgotten about.Create a Skyrim version of COBL. A simple library placed in the world where the books are scattered around the place is a good idea. when you make your mod you have the library as a master and add your config book to it. This way all config books are in one location that could have multiple purposes like an inn, some vendors, and a full crafting area. Only problem could be if 2 modders place a book in the same exact spot and that would just be havoc throwing the books around the room when you load the cell. and there would be a rule that they dont change anything in the cell otherwise you could get a CTD if another mod changes the same thing. It is simple and would keep immersion, consider the mod to be something new left at the library so you go there to check it out. maybe 1 central cell that has a door to each of the main cities so it is convenient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mansh00ter Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 You *never* want to make your config item droppable. That can lead to all sorts of problems where people are then forced to use the console or even reinstall the mod. Personally, I believe spells are the way to go, or failing that non-droppable books/items. I also consider it a bad design decision to make the only means of configuring your mod available in certain locations ingame. That is extremely clumsy to use and can get annoying fast. If you have made your mod configurable, make those options easily and constantly available to players, in the least obtrusive way. A few extra spells in your spellbook won't explode your game and when all things are considered, is still the most elegant and straightforward solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jet4571 Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 You *never* want to make your config item droppable. That can lead to all sorts of problems where people are then forced to use the console or even reinstall the mod. Personally, I believe spells are the way to go, or failing that non-droppable books/items. I also consider it a bad design decision to make the only means of configuring your mod available in certain locations ingame. That is extremely clumsy to use and can get annoying fast. If you have made your mod configurable, make those options easily and constantly available to players, in the least obtrusive way. A few extra spells in your spellbook won't explode your game and when all things are considered, is still the most elegant and straightforward solution. Spells are the worst way to go. yes 1 or 2 wont clutter up the spell inventory but what about 100+ of them? Think about it, you are not the only one making a mod that uses a config. As for making the item droppable. If someone puts it someplace and loses it well then they were the idiot that did it. best thing is place the item in the world and have it respawn. once you pick it up the first time and you lose it because you are too stupid to realize that putting it in that barrel inside that fort was a bad idea you can return to where you originally found it if you need it again. If you are like many players you would put the book on a bookshelf or in a container and always know where it is at. As for placing it in the world in some random location and having to go fetch it to begin is a problem? If you are too lazy to go fetch it then how the hell did you get out of Helgen and why are you playing an RPG? And this could be fun by making a quest to go fetch it. Talk to an NPC and he tells you to go fetch him something. put the book with the item you are fetching. If thats too much work for you then you really should uninstall all RPG games you have. There are 2 things that annoy many players and thats cluttered inventory and a cluttered spellbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trees415 Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Honestly, I think it's lame that most of the mods that add new shouts use spellbooks as the teach shouts. Why isn't anyone using word walls? They are so easy to do from scratch, much eaiser than mannequins or bookshelves in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mansh00ter Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 You *never* want to make your config item droppable. That can lead to all sorts of problems where people are then forced to use the console or even reinstall the mod. Personally, I believe spells are the way to go, or failing that non-droppable books/items. I also consider it a bad design decision to make the only means of configuring your mod available in certain locations ingame. That is extremely clumsy to use and can get annoying fast. If you have made your mod configurable, make those options easily and constantly available to players, in the least obtrusive way. A few extra spells in your spellbook won't explode your game and when all things are considered, is still the most elegant and straightforward solution. Spells are the worst way to go. yes 1 or 2 wont clutter up the spell inventory but what about 100+ of them? Think about it, you are not the only one making a mod that uses a config. As for making the item droppable. If someone puts it someplace and loses it well then they were the idiot that did it. best thing is place the item in the world and have it respawn. once you pick it up the first time and you lose it because you are too stupid to realize that putting it in that barrel inside that fort was a bad idea you can return to where you originally found it if you need it again. If you are like many players you would put the book on a bookshelf or in a container and always know where it is at. As for placing it in the world in some random location and having to go fetch it to begin is a problem? If you are too lazy to go fetch it then how the hell did you get out of Helgen and why are you playing an RPG? And this could be fun by making a quest to go fetch it. Talk to an NPC and he tells you to go fetch him something. put the book with the item you are fetching. If thats too much work for you then you really should uninstall all RPG games you have. There are 2 things that annoy many players and thats cluttered inventory and a cluttered spellbook. Not as much as having to run across Skyrim to fetch a freaking book so you can change something in the mod config menu. That's not roleplaying, it has nothing to do with RPG's and it's not fun. It's something you do so you can tweak the mod to your liking and thus have fun. No. Configuration options MUST be available at all times, and must be fool-proof. That's just basic design. It doesn't have anything to do with laziness. You never make a user run through unnecessary hoops in order to access basic functionality of your product. Imagine if Bethesda did that with the game itself and you had to go talk to the "Old Man" in some cave in the middle of nowhere every time you wanted to change something in the options menu. Personally, I'm all for making things easier for the players. The majority of them. And trust me, the majority of mod users wouldn't like any config solution other than one which gives them the options everywhere and anywhere they need or want them. As I said before, too bad Bethesda never made the main options menu accessible for modders, that would have been the ideal solution. But, since we don't have it, and since a "universal remote" mod would fail with those 100 mods installed you mentioned even if you somehow got all authors to tweak their mods to work with it, spellbooks or spells are the best way to go. No two ways about it. May not be ideal, but is most workable right now. @trees415 - about that, I agree, but that's another topic. If your mod brings in new items or spells, it only makes sense to try and blend the way you get them with the world. But we're talking about configuration items/spells, which by their definition do not "belong" in the game world. That's another reason why I dislike the idea of forcing them to blend in - you can't. It actually breaks immersion and most roleplayers will hate it if you force them to "roleplay" changing the options of how their world works. This is Skyrim, not the Matrix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jet4571 Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 @Mansh00terRequiring it available at all times is proof of poor design. a config should only be required 1 time unless the mod gets updated. If the mod is so badly designed that you need to make changes all the time then the mod maker needs to reconsider how the mod works to make it simpler. For myself if there are several options i would rather have a book for config and test the options to find the one i prefer then put the book where the rest of my books are stored. if getting to that book is fast travel to X city and go behind X building and pick it up from ontop of X crate or barrel thats not a big hassle. It is also the most common method of adding new armor and weapons to Oblivion, It works and it is a clean spellbook or inventory when you are done using it. I also never said books are not a good way to go, infact I think they are the better way until someone adds a system that is universal and yet simple. spells on the other hand are not the better way because having to slog through many config spells to find the one you want is just as much a hassle as go to X location and find the book and worse because people use magic allot in the game so will be a recurring hassle. Good reason for wanting the books where you can store them is have you ever had 15-20 quest items in inventory and went to store items, hitting r on each one and get the cannot store error message or having to skip items that you remember is quest? Isn't that annoying? And you suggest creating that scenario the whole time the person has that mod? As for suggesting maybe add a quest where the book is next to the quest item is that would create a reason to go to X location to get the config book. Quests are fun and part of the game. Since the book is next to the quest item and not the item itself you can go straight to it and never do the quest. There is no reason to go talk to that NPC ever again unless the mod maker made them potential follower/marriage after the quest is complete because you have the book. when you dont need it it is stored in a safe location like anyone does with extra armor, crafting materials, weapons, unique items they are not using. and if they lose it somehow they can return to where they got it and grab a new one because it MUST respawn. Plus the mod includes a bonus quest! But really the book can just be placed in inventory when you install the mod, but that leaves 2 choices. 1 book is permanently there, or 2 potential to lose it and not be able to get a new one without use of console. not very elegant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrivener07 Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Gotta say I hate spell configs myself because I run a tight ship on my spellbook but I love config items I can drop. Anyway, Ive seen talk of an MCM type mod in the works by some very talented modders so hopefully most people will use that if it gets released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts