Fortunado3 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I doubt Bethesda is dumbing the game down; they're making it more realistic. All the changes- the removal of incremental stats, the crafting additions, the dual wield, the real time dialogue, the unique spells, the bias-free marriage, the superfluous addition of dynamic weather, the addition of different armor versions rather than radically different styles of armor- it all feels like Bethesda is finally doing what they wanted to with TES, but never could before due to the primitive state of the medium. Bethesda is no longer trying to make old-school rpgs (for better or worse), they're making worlds and saying 'screw the stereotypes'.No, they are dumbing it down. Something that's been happening since after Morrowind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortunado3 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) I doubt Bethesda is dumbing the game down; they're making it more realistic. All the changes- the removal of incremental stats, the crafting additions, the dual wield, the real time dialogue, the unique spells, the bias-free marriage, the superfluous addition of dynamic weather, the addition of different armor versions rather than radically different styles of armor- it all feels like Bethesda is finally doing what they wanted to with TES, but never could before due to the primitive state of the medium. Bethesda is no longer trying to make old-school rpgs (for better or worse), they're making worlds and saying 'screw the stereotypes'.Added realism? Like what, wolverine regenerating health? No, they are dumbing it down. Something that's been happening since after Morrowind. Cutting mechanics and features while adding extra hand holding is dumbing down. the previous games were just as much "worlds" as Skyrim. Most of the things you mention are either gimmicks, don't really add anything new, or graphics based. The only real mechanic added was crafting, and compared to spell creation, or even old school (superior) enchanting, crafting is extremely linear and devoid of customization. Fortunado3, I have to agree about the mods, I would be sorely disappointed without them. Just took issue with the fact you took a shot at the players of the game and not who you are really upset with. I had to chuckle when I, as a player was lumped into newbs. I would venture to guess I was taking COBOL and FORTRAN classes at UM long before you had grasped spelling your own name, if you were even born then. Back then our games were text only for the most part, and the interaction was archaic to say the least. Maybe that has taught me patience vs. the need for instant gratification. There is a fix though, you could start your own company and do it better? By the way, very good point Rennn! .....And with that, I am off to the Florida Keys for a couple of weeks to delve into the adventures of the real world, and I am not bringing a computer along. Everyone have fun, and I can't wait to see what is out there in the form of mods when I get back. Kudos to all of you modders that take the time to make Skyrim a better gaming experience!...Nobody lumped you into anything, and Ive been gaming since Avalon Hill games and Stat-O-Matic baseball were the best that was out. When you assume, you make an ass out of yourself.I can completely agree with your statement, "Skyrim isnt complete." But I cant, however, agree that Skyrim was made for "newbs". Of course they made Skyrim for new players, Todd Howard said it himself.. They always try to create an Elder Scroll game as if you have never played the series before. This may seem a bit disloyal to the true fans of the series, but think about the other side of the coin ( oblivion reference ). Imagine you had played Skyrim without even being aware of the elder scrolls series. Would you have wanted Skyrim to be as ridiculously difficult as Dark Souls? They are somewhat obligated to appeal to new players, because that's how business works. I do see your point, and side with it to a degree. Just had to put in my two cents I suppose.. Sadly, I am stuck playing Skyrim on my Elite...As my laptop was not made by NASA, and cannot run Skyrim, or its Beautimus mods. :( I did, however, have Oblivion, along with about 7GB's in mods, So I can only imagine the mods at work on Skyrim.. I personally enjoy The Reach, as it reminds me of the land surrounded Rohan. Since a few of you have it for PC, might you mind posting a few screenshots of the modded lands? I would greatly enjoy/appreciate it, and im sure others who find this topic will as well.You can build a desktop that will max Skyrim for 500-650 bucks. Possibly even cheaper during sales. And if you can put legos together, you can build a PC. another argument started by the anti change gamers .. every game has some group of players that *censored* and moan of the slightest edit to the series .. most cant even explain exactly what features bother them... they say key topics like dumbing down and removing features without mentioning the new added features or what dumbing down means to them... sometimes these people are right .. but in this case its coming out as "blaaaahhhh.. remake morrowind again"Not really, lol at the "afraid of change" fallacy. Whole lot of flawed logic in your post, since nobody asked for Morrowind 2. Nobody said Skyrim sucks because of the lack of Guar. Its the mechanics, features, and depth we want back. The RP options. Its been said ad nauseum what was cut, what representations are no longer there, and what extra hand holding was added. Anybody remotely familiar with the SERIES, would see it. Cutting mechanics and not replacing them is change I cant believe in. If something was flawed before, you fix and update it, not cut it. That right there is change. Fact is, Skyrim would be a better game if it had the cut features back in. Fortunately mods have and will fix all of it eventually, with spell creation and the return of attributes probably being the longest and hardest to make. Even though the grand majority here are on PC and can get mods, these cornerstones of the series should be enjoyed by all, on any console, etc. Shame all the new people to ES don't know what they could of and should of had. Vanilla Skyrim Magic is almost as bad as Oblivion level scaling. Magic was gutted for graphics. But atleast its pretty right? Edited March 16, 2012 by Fortunado3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marharth Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 How did this turn into a debate on if Skyrim is being dumbed down or not? There is probably over a thousand topics like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortunado3 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) How did this turn into a debate on if Skyrim is being dumbed down or not? There is probably over a thousand topics like that.I just made a simple, factual statement, and people just wanted to respond I guess. I didn't think it would cause much of a stir since I presumed that most here were familiar with the series and its current direction. On topic though, I'm partial to Sovngarde, and the mountainous areas outside of Markarth, feels a lot like Ireland. North west of Dawnstar, among the glaciers during the Auroras are especially nice as well. Edited March 16, 2012 by Fortunado3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rennn Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I doubt Bethesda is dumbing the game down; they're making it more realistic. All the changes- the removal of incremental stats, the crafting additions, the dual wield, the real time dialogue, the unique spells, the bias-free marriage, the superfluous addition of dynamic weather, the addition of different armor versions rather than radically different styles of armor- it all feels like Bethesda is finally doing what they wanted to with TES, but never could before due to the primitive state of the medium. Bethesda is no longer trying to make old-school rpgs (for better or worse), they're making worlds and saying 'screw the stereotypes'.No, they are dumbing it down. Something that's been happening since after Morrowind. If you're taking that view, what about Daggerfall? For Morrowind they cut dual wield, mouse combat, they cut the map size by like 500x, they cut tone-based dialogue, they cut horse riding, they even cut climbing! Morrowind was downright shallow compared to Daggerfall, and moan all you want, Skyrim added a lot to complexity (crafting, marriage, companions, dual wield, dragons, shouts, kill moves, perk trees, etc). Morrowind exudes atmosphere, but fully half of your disdain for Skyrim is based on inaccurate nostalgia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortunado3 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) I doubt Bethesda is dumbing the game down; they're making it more realistic. All the changes- the removal of incremental stats, the crafting additions, the dual wield, the real time dialogue, the unique spells, the bias-free marriage, the superfluous addition of dynamic weather, the addition of different armor versions rather than radically different styles of armor- it all feels like Bethesda is finally doing what they wanted to with TES, but never could before due to the primitive state of the medium. Bethesda is no longer trying to make old-school rpgs (for better or worse), they're making worlds and saying 'screw the stereotypes'.No, they are dumbing it down. Something that's been happening since after Morrowind. If you're taking that view, what about Daggerfall? For Morrowind they cut dual wield, mouse combat, they cut the map size by like 500x, they cut tone-based dialogue, they cut horse riding, they even cut climbing! Morrowind was downright shallow compared to Daggerfall, and moan all you want, Skyrim added a lot to complexity (crafting, marriage, companions, dual wield, dragons, shouts, kill moves, perk trees, etc). Morrowind exudes atmosphere, but fully half of your disdain for Skyrim is based on inaccurate nostalgia.There were things that were in Daggerfall (a copy paste landscape) that weren't in Morrowind (hand placed, fully unique map), of course, but it was still acceptable, opposed to Skyrim. Because, there were two major, but understandable compromises Beth had to make. One, it had to run on consoles, and secondly, it wasn't the same 20 or so mini maps copy and pasted. Morrowind was a huge, non repeating sandbox world in full 3D.And even then, people did complain about the cut features from Dagger to Morrow, which doesn't help your stance any. And even a cut down Morrowind is deeper than Skyrim. And again, you don't list anything that adds complexity (dragons, kill animations, shouts), or you list things that were already in the ES (companions). Most of that stuff really adds nothing when you actually look at them (marriage), especially perks. Very few perks add anything new to the ES, since a majority are just damage modifiers, or magic prerequisites. I was playing previous ES games just a few days ago, so its obviously not nostalgia. Its simply wanting more, and the features that made ES great in the first place. Edited March 16, 2012 by Fortunado3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waller91 Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 My quotes arent working, so im doing this Twitter style... @Sader325 Haha...Yea...I just have this Toshiba Satellite from like 08, and it barely even ran Oblivion..Which was confusing, because it lagged more if I played on low graphics, but maxed? Ran smoothly...Except for towns...Sweet baby Jesus...I could not even enter the Imperial City, which lead to several quests going unfinished.. The lag was so terrible..So, so terrible.. @marharth I honestly didnt expect it to stay 100% on topic. It never does..so many people with so many opinions, its bound to get, "Wild, up in hurr." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimembrain Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 My point was that this topic has been made a million time and I dont feel like arguing it over again so I made my point simple .. Deal with it .. the game is different and plenty of people love it the way it is .. its not dumbed down .. they just put attention into different aspects of the game instead of leveling complexity. Done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capomafioso Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 tbh the only issue i have with skyrim so far is its lack of in depth story line, your choices make little difference to the world, and npcs dont react to your achievements most of the time, that being said i enjoy the game a hell of a lot and am hoping the DLC will be more story focused than anything else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austyn12090 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I doubt Bethesda is dumbing the game down; they're making it more realistic. All the changes- the removal of incremental stats, the crafting additions, the dual wield, the real time dialogue, the unique spells, the bias-free marriage, the superfluous addition of dynamic weather, the addition of different armor versions rather than radically different styles of armor- it all feels like Bethesda is finally doing what they wanted to with TES, but never could before due to the primitive state of the medium. Bethesda is no longer trying to make old-school rpgs (for better or worse), they're making worlds and saying 'screw the stereotypes'.No, they are dumbing it down. Something that's been happening since after Morrowind. If you're taking that view, what about Daggerfall? For Morrowind they cut dual wield, mouse combat, they cut the map size by like 500x, they cut tone-based dialogue, they cut horse riding, they even cut climbing! Morrowind was downright shallow compared to Daggerfall, and moan all you want, Skyrim added a lot to complexity (crafting, marriage, companions, dual wield, dragons, shouts, kill moves, perk trees, etc). Morrowind exudes atmosphere, but fully half of your disdain for Skyrim is based on inaccurate nostalgia. Wait, you use to be able to climb in the elderscrolls??? can somebody make a mod for that??? I'm actually pretty disappointed in the faction quest lengths. i loved the dark brotherhood line but it seemed really short. the companion quests are just boring and make no sense, You do 4-5 missions for them, which can be completed in less than a week of skyrim time, and they instantly decide to make you part of the inner circle... WTH... never played morrowind but i heard that the quest lines were a lot longer in it... but i guess if we wanted skyrim to be perfect then we would have had to wait for until 2016 for it to be made... On topic: I personally love the view from the throat of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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