Why nothing makes sence

[Nevermore]

Logic is the decition making process that allows one to make choices that help the chooser best obtain a certian goal.

 

There are diffrent types of logic, each have diffrent goals:

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Survival Logic- Stay alive, even if it means you must make sacrifices and take risks

 

Organic Logic- Breed. If a spieces does not have this logic then they won't mate and within 1 generation will die out. It's fair to say most living things have soem form of this logic.

 

Murder Logic- Kill things. This can be to varrying degrees as in how much are the thinkers willing to sacrifice to kill.

 

Other Logic- Almost everything can be a logic. If there is a way to obtain it, or reamain in a certian state then it can be a logic. Murder Logic is a valid logic, although I can't name anything that has this logic. And that's ok, as long as it's valid its a logic, it doesn't have to be used in order to be there.

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Humans are born with certian logics built in, most creatures are. Survival logic is popular because if a creture was born that didn't care if it lived or died it's not likely to breed much. These logics were put there by evolution, see last sentance for an example.

 

Every desistion is made using a certian logic, other wise your randomly guessing what to do (which is possable, but not likely possable to do your entire life). Before you make a desition you then need a logic.

 

But which logic do you choose? That's a desistion, and desistions require a logic.

But which logic do you choose? That's a desistion, and desistions require a logic.

But which logic do you choose? That's a desistion, and desistions require a logic.

But which logic do you choose? That's a desistion, and desistions require a logic.

ect forever

 

So one can not say that they make their own desistions because realy their just applying logic that they were born to use. If they wanted to add a logic (and have sevreal which many creatures have) they'd have to chose which one. And that choice would be made using the logics they were born with. So agian they are not truly making a choice, but rather applying logic that they were born with and going with the best result.

 

Predispositions, such as alchohalism, are realy just logics that will be atoumaticly added (through no decistion making) to the cocktail. Say one makes a "choice" to have their first drink. They drink and get drunk, their genes may have been predisposed to having addictions such as alchohalism so drinking is a logic that is now added to all futcher desistions that person makes. Violence, is another example of predisposition. There are many.

 

How one was raised effects what logics one has. When a parent teaches a child to go potty, then a potty logic is added through little "choice" of the child. Also children may be taught that hitting your loved ones is how you show love. This is just a diffrent type of logic then potty logic.

 

So people are born with logics that eliminate true choice in adding more logics. People are born with predispositions that add logics with out any choice. And people are raised (IE forced) to add potty logics.

 

How can we prove that we do make real choices on our own? By making a choice that goes agianst every single logic one hold wether they know they have it or not.

 

Get out of your computer chair and cut your foot off with a saw, or lick your computer screen, or do somthing that serves no purpose what so ever. Now most people wouldn't cut their foot off with a saw to prove they can make choices, but there is most likly at least ONE person that would. But are they realy making a choice?

 

No. They are serving a purpose and that is to prove that they make choices. Proving points was a logic they have that came from either genes, predispositions, or it was a potty logic. One only needs to know that there is no such thing as creativity to know that this is true. Creativity is just the blending of stuff known to make a seemingly new idea. True creativity (which is physicly impossable) would need to take place to create the choice of going agianst logic.

 

So we make no choices.

 

Any comments?

[Darnoc]

One only needs to know that there is no such thing as creativity to know that this is true. Creativity is just the blending of stuff known to make a seemingly new idea. True creativity (which is physicly impossable) would need to take place to create the choice of going agianst logic.

 

Interesting. I would agree that most creativy is when you take subjects who are already existing and mix them in a different way. So when what you say is true, we can only immagine things that already exist (so you are agreeing with Aristoteles, who said the same thing). But how then can I imagine myself something abstract like "god"? When we define god as the absolute perfect being, then we can't experience this in our own reality. There is nothing in the reality we can experience which is omnipotent, allknowing and timeless. So if I can imagine myself something completely outside of our reality, then you are proven wrong.

 

And about thinking of something that goes against any logic:

 

As I woke up in the morning, I decided for a reason I don't know to got out of my bed with the hands first and feet last. Then I went down the stairs walking on my hands, took my breakfast and smashed it against the next wall. Looks kind of cool, but I really don't have any reason for doing this. I just do it. Instead of going to the office for the purpose of working, I go directly to my Boss and tell him that he is an a******le (even when he is a very nice guy). I'm fired and I am glad because of this (even when I earned much money there and liked my job). So I take a machine gun, walk through the streets and kill everyone in site. I never killed a person before and acctually I don't like it. But I do it. After my "sport" I go home, kill my dog (I liked him very much and I don't like dog food) and fry him in my pan. It was disgusting, but still I do it. Then I took a brush and some red color, went up the sky and then I made it look red like blood. After this I made myself an atomic bomb, went to the White House and planted it right before George W. Bush. After this I just beamed out (I don't know where this beamer has come from) and met Captain Kirk outside. "Oh, Hello Darnoc, nice day today?" He asked. "Oh, not acctually, the president of the USA will explode in some seconds. And shouldn't you be dead to?" So I took my gun and shot him. After this I just left my body stand there in front of the White House, my spirit took a journey to another dimension, were everything was so different and so confusing that I can't really describe it.

 

So, everything I did write here was absolutely unlogical. OK, you can say now that I did this because I wanted to prove a point and that this is logic too. But the fact that I can create something completely without any sense at all, proves you wrong.

[Marxist ßastard]

Nevermore, while you're trying to state that no human can operate on anything except logic, let me introduce...

 

Oh, well it seems that Darnoc has already come in.

 

...All joking aside, however, if you want to make an argument against free will, look no farther than the techniques practiced in psychological institutions -- a thousand amps brow-to-brow to wipe someone out of a "funk," drugs that alter someone's mental state, Jack Nicholson (Where's a strikeout when you need it?), and the like...

[Breton Thief Oriana]

thank you, mr. spock, but there must be some emotion for choice. and we all know that blind emotion flows from us freely. and also, there must unarguably be a beginning to fresh ideas and creativity, or there would be no where to build off of it.

 

"Damnit, captain! im a doctor, not an artist!" or something to that effect.

(thank you doctor McCoy)

[Marxist ßastard]

...Yes, and what are emotions if not gigantic chemical spills and hiccups of reason in your brain?

[Nevermore]

if you want to make an argument against free will, look no farther than the techniques practiced in psychological institutions -- a thousand amps brow-to-brow to wipe someone out of a "funk," drugs that alter someone's mental state, Jack Nicholson (Where's a strikeout when you need it?), and the like...

 

What are you trying to say? I don't get this.

 

But the fact that I can create something completely without any sense at all, proves you wrong.

 

No. Writting at random means your not making choices. With out choices there can be no logic applied.

 

There is nothing in the reality we can experience which is omnipotent, allknowing and timeless

 

Your right. There is not. But break down each of those and you get just a few basic ideas:

 

Timeless: Things die (some one sees another die),

what if (when two things can happen then basic thinking is "what if")

not (opposite of is or being)

Opposite (if things can be chipped it can be heavily shipped, and chunks could be missing, are the entire rock could just be crushed and blown away so it no longer is. Oppsite is the max diffrence that is possable)

 

Everything can be broken down to things natrally acuring in nature that canbe learned and mixed into "new" ideas.

[Marxist ßastard]

What I'm trying to say is that free will only exists in the (Mild) form of what one has experienced throughout his life and the chemistry of one's brain contributing to actions. The former can be manipulated freely by some nut doing a Freud act or electroshock therapy, while the latter can be changed through pharmaceuticals and narcotics.

 

...If you still don't understand, I think this can be better put in the form of a question:

 

Explain the difficulties in the concept of individual free will in the light of the deterministic theories of neurochemical medicine and modern behaviorist psychology.

[Nevermore]

Ok, now I see what you mean. Although I like making my own cases when doing this kind of stuff then just using other people's thoughts and work. I'm just the kind of recluse that relly doesn't want to be disturebed when I'm stareing off into space, for I'm think hard on stuff and this is what spawns from it.

 

Anyways, unless some one else has somthing to say or Darnoc is goign to bring up more stuff for me (which I would love) I think this is pretty much over.