Dragten Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 My thoughts as well...In Morrowind and Oblivion, they feel like a "band of Robin Hoods", while in Skyrim then remind me of a low-life mafia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnaiSiaion Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 The mafia is a real life "thieves guild" though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marharth Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 The mafia is a real life "thieves guild" though.Well no. The mafia kills people for money. The thieves guild openly opposes killing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnaiSiaion Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Well the only way a "thieves guild" can exist without getting shut down by the authorities is if they have the authorities in their pocket. One way or the other, people are going to hate the fact that their stuff is getting stolen and it will take some form of violence to keep them in line. Giving back to the community is actually a good idea for a crime organisation. The mafia does it in certain communities, so do the triads. It prevents widespread dissent and makes it harder and more unpopular for the authorities to crack down on them. A drug cartel that invests in a local school will have a lot of supporters in that community and they won't care that some other country is engaged in a war on drugs. This only applies to a thieves guild that is big enough to be worth sending soldiers at. A crew of a handful of men who work together to pull off heists has no reason to care about anyone else, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris94SL2 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) The darkness of the guild is fine, Skyrim is a different place than Morrowind and Cyrodiil so they can go in a different direction with it. There are three things I dislike about the way the thieves guild was handled. 1. There is no way to destroy the guild... I should be able to walk down to the ratway and kill them all at least.2. There is no way to play an "independent theif". If you want your character to be a robin-hood type the ONLY way to sell stolen goods is by joining the guild. You should always be able to use the fence.3. You should be able to bypass the menial thug missions at the beginning. Maybe if you sneak down into the ratway and find their hideout you can join without doing the shakedowns... It's kind of ridiculous that your character can be an ultimate assassin for the dark brotherhood but you have to shakedown shopkeepers to prove your worth to the guild. Edited March 22, 2012 by Chris94SL2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Two things bothered me with the Thieves Guild: a) Whats the point of having an "inside man" (Gulum Ei) in the biggest shipping company in Skyrim when I can just go in there, kill everybody, and steal everything with impunity - even from the Guild itself? Ditto the Dainty Sload and pretty much any other quest - I should have to face some consequences when I get back after my latest Terminator stint. b) Giving you quests to build up the Guild, and having you steal from places which are supposedly off limits to pilfering according to the Shadowmarks (i.e. Battle Born house in Whiterun). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdrewjr Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 It's great to see so many responses to this. A bit surprised that most were in favor of the darker take in Skyrim, but to each his own. As I stated in my original post, I was mostly curious as to the thinking behind Bethesda's decision to deviate from established lore. I guess I would have had less of a problem with shop owners getting shaken down for protection money in a more well-off city, such as Solitude or Whiterun, rather than in a rundown place like Riften which was struggling to get by. The other thing that I'm still curious about is why an alternative way of dealing with them wasn't provided. Vague spoilers ahead: With the Dark Brotherhood you had three options; avoid, join, destroy. With the Thieves Guild you have avoid (mentioned in some posts) or join. But the weird part is that there seems to be a setup in the game for the destroy, M'Joll states in dialog when you first encounter her that she see's herself as Riften's protector. That could easily have been the lead in to a destroy option. The destroy the Dark Brotherhood had such a lead in (which I won't mention here), which gave good and evil characters ways of doing the quest without ignoring it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spork542 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 My primary issue with the Thieves Guild in this game is as follows. I want to annihilate it. I want blood to spill all across Riften and the Ratway. I want Maven Black-Briar and her cronies to die. I'm not given the option to effect this. The times are indeed harsh, so I can understand the organization using harsher methods. But if they act confrontational around the Dragonborn, they shouldn't be surprised if violence breaks out, given all their threats towards a no-doubt fearsome character. But no, it's not permitted, not because of the law (the guards don't seem to care when I assault Maul), but because characters like Maul and Maven are essential, and their downfall is not an option the developers have put into the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robanybody2000 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 The reason they are essential is that a HUGE quest with one of the greatest rewards in the game is dependent on some thives guild members. Maven is also essential because... I will not post spoilers, just play the damn game. And you CAN do independent thivery (selling stolen goods to normal shops), you need the Investor and Fence perks in Speech, plus 500 septims investment-works for any shopkeeper-.Last one works if you acualy play a thiev-merchant oriented character (not the almighty warrior/assassin/mage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackCompany Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I didn't mind the darker take. This is Skyrim, and its a darker, harsher world. Though they failed to really convey it due to lack of contrast I think Skyrim was going to the 'no real good guys in this place' feel. Sort of like Payback (movie) or the much-mentioned Game of Thrones novels (the first three of which are pretty darn good.) Skyrim was meant to be dark and harsh and full of bloody-minded people. Kind of like a Joe Abercrombie book without the deep characters. What I do feel the Guild lacked was...finesse. The more brutish nature goes with the territory, I suppose. But the Gray Fox...man, he was smooth. Hiding in plain sight, so to speak. Protecting the meek. And the Elder Scroll heist...wow. Just...wow. He was Finesse personified and Skyrim's guild, though uniquely its own, lacks that. Just as the DB lacks the "believable" feel of the DB in Oblivion. Can't put my finger on why, it just does, to me. Its the finesse I miss, mostly. Cleverness. The sly heists and assassinations of the early DB from Oblivion even. These quests don't feel clever; they don't feel like they take serious smoothness or a crafty knack for Stealth to pull off. They feel...forced...somehow. Like they were shoved in last minute and not well thought out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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