LE Alternate Civil War ending needed

[wdrewjr]

Please note that there may be a very minor spoiler in this request (an item you find early in the main quest).

 

Hi. When I finished the main quest I was wondering what was left. I had never chosen a side in the Civil War, so I was just under the assumpion that my becoming the Dragonborn would put a stop to it. Oops. I then read a bit online and found out there are two different endings, depending on what side you join. However, I feel that Bethesda left out a possible ending, an ending that I would consider to be the correct one, and an ending that they in fact allowed for via an item that you find during the main quest. This part may be the spoiler:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

During the main quest you infiltrate the Thalmor embassy looking for info to find someone. While in there you find three different dossiers; two involved in the current issue in the main quest, and a third about... Ulfric Stormcloak! This dossier reveals how the Thalmore are using him (he doesn't know about this) and his war to weaken Skyrim. The Thalmor set the whole thing in motion by strictly forbidding Talos worship in the peace treaty they signed with the Empire, knowing that this would eventually divide the Nords. Whoever wins the war, the Stormcloaks or the Empire, it is the Thalmore who actually win. With the Nords, the Empire's last remaining ally, sufficiently weakened the Thalmore can now finish off the Empire. An ending that I would have liked to have been possible (and perhaps even added via mod) is where the Dragonborn, at the truce meeting that takes place during the main storyline, reveals the contents of the dossier and the true intentions of the Thalmor and the ramifications of continuing this Civil War. You could even make it so that this option is only available if you A) find this dossier and B) have it with you at the meeting. From there the story could go in many directions. Both sides could just decide to end the war. Both sides could unite and turn against the Thalmor (who are still being resisted by the Redgard). Or Ulfric could refuse to believe any of this, forcing the Dragonborn to take him out and become High King of Skyrim himself. Being Dragonborn he could even convince General Tullius that he has a legitimate claim to the throne of the Empire. Many possibilities. I look forward to reading your responses, and I thank you for taking the time to read this.

[PorcelainPimpWaffle]

This sounds like exactly the kind of thing Bethesda might include in a future DLC. Although I do like the idea and agree that just ignoring the Thalmor for the most part doesn't make much sense. I would like to see this happening, good idea.

[acealeam]

I'm hoping they add this. This is too good to be a mod, needs to be a DLC, and it completely makes sense, too.

[kibblesticks]

+1 I really want something like this. The whole civivl war thing just seemed completely undeveloped to me, most of the misc quests had more depth and better characters than the civil war narrative. :facepalm:

[wdrewjr]

Hi again. I've given this quite a bit more thought, and the idea of adding a possible ending where the Imperials and Stormcloaks unite against the makes even more sense now that I've read the lore books within the game. The following information isn't strictly a spoiler, since it doesn't concern gameplay but rather is information available by reading the ingame books, but even so, you are warned.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Thalmor, a radical minority of High Elves who consider the High Elves (and only the High Elves) to be the decendants of the Aedra, seized control of Summerset Isle in the wake of the damage caused by the Oblivion crisis. Seven years later (4E 22), working covertly with supporters in Valenwood, staged a political coup and took control from those who supported the Empire. Together they formed the new Aldmeri Dominion. They then broke off all ties and communication with the Empire. Then in 4E 98 the moons Masser and Secunda dissappeared. (Since there were no reports of massive tidal waves or ground quakes, the moons in fact were still there; they just couldn't be seen). While this was disconcerting to most of Tamriel, for the Khajiit (who center so much of their lives and society upon the moons phases) it was the end of the world. When the moons reappeared two years later the Thalmor immediately stepped in and claimed that they had brought the moons back with "hidden magik". Whether this was a trick, a lie or the truth didn't matter; Thalmor popularity rose in Elsweyr to the point that 15 years later another Thalmor led coup overturned the supporters of the Empire and brought the Khajiit into the Aldmeri Dominion. The Dominion was silent again for 56 years until:

 

"On the 30th of Frostfall, 4E 171 the Aldmeri Dominion sent an ambassador to the Imperial City with a gift in a covered cart and an ultimatum for the new Emperor. The long list of demands included staggering tributes, disbandment of the Blades, outlawing the worship of Talos, and ceding large sections of Hammerfell to the Dominion. Despite the warnings of his generals of the Empire's military weakness, Emperor Titus Mede II rejected the ultimatum. The Thalmor ambassador upended the cart, spilling over a hundred heads on the floor: every Blades agent in Summerset and Valenwood." Thus began the Great War.

 

It started as a two pronged attack into both Cyrodiil and Hammerfell. Later observers would come to the conclusion that the original intent of attacking Cyrodill was to tie down Imperial forces while the Thalmore seized their true objective: Hammerfell. However, their initial incursions into Cyrodill were far more successful than expected, and the focused changed. That divided focus is what would eventually lead to their failure to completely take either objective, and the signing of the White-Gold Concordat. The Redguard refused to sign, stating that the Dominion could be driven back completely, but the Emperor feared his depleted forces would not be able to do this. So on their own, the Redguard successfully drove the Dominion out of Hammerfell. The Emperor was forced to renounce Hammerfell as a provence to preserve the peace treaty, so the Thalmor goal of removing Redguard support of the Empire was still a success. This left the Nords as the only supporters of Empire.

 

The White-Gold Concordat itself was the next phase of attack upon the Empire. By disbanding the Blades they removed the only intelligence agency the Empire had, leaving the Thalmor free to act unobserved. And outlawing the worship of Talos would sour the relationship between the Nords and the Empire, and eventually lead to a civil war in Skyrim. For the Thalmore the winner of the war wouldn't matter, for the final outcome would be a Skyrim sufficiently weakened as to be of no help to the Empire when the Dominion attacked again.

 

As to how this all relates to the available choices for the Civil War quest in Skyrim, choosing either side will likely lead to an outcome where the next Elder Scrolls game will be centered on Summerset Isle, as the Dominion will control most if not all of Tamriel by then. But the makers of the game did leave us, the gameplayers, another possible outcome by including that dossier on Ulfric. The just didn't flesh it out. DLC? I hope so. But if not then it definitely calls out for a mod.

 

And to those who would say that even a united Skyrim/Cyrodiil force couldn't take on the Dominion, I would ask them to remember that the Dominion suffered losses just as heavy as the Empire during the Great War. That's why neither side could continue fighting and agreed to a treaty. You don't agree to a treaty if you still think you can win now. But while both sides suffered the same losses, those losses affected the Dominion far worse than the Empire realized. All of the Mer races (High Elf, Bosmer, Dunmer) have very long life spans; hundreds of years. But in nature (and this is documented in Elder Scrolls lore) life forms with long life spans don't reproduce as often. A High Elf couple might produce 2-3 children over the course of 300-400 years. Humans, however, reproduce like rabbits (in fact this is probably what led the Snow Elves to attempt to wipe out the first Nord immigrants. They had gotten along quite well at first, but after 20 years it would have become obvious to them that the Nords would eventually breed them out of their own homeland). That's why the Dominion would go for long periods of not taking action; they had to train conscripts from acquired nations to take the place of High Elves who died on the battle field.

 

I look forward to your comments.

[CasperTheLich]

About the aldmeri war… from what I could tell; it seemed like the thalmor launched a surprise attack against the imperial forces focusing their attack against the imperial province itself. Knowing at that point they couldn’t match the full force of imperial army, they drove their forces to capture the imperial city before the imperial legions could be fully mobilized. And demanded the total surrender of the empire or the city would be torched (and the thalmor had already begun to butcher the imperial city's civilian population). The emperor surrendered to the aldmeri dominion to save his own skin. From what I can tell.

 

as for the mod/dlc idea. couldn't agree more. i also liked the idea of the main character eventually becoming the high king of skyrim & possibly the next emperor.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Invisible Man

[Korodic]

stop it! This makes too much sense!

[RaktoastTheSandwichTopper]

yes! INVADE THE DOMINION!!!!!!! >:D

[Dovahkiin2001]

This is an awesome idea. I wrote a story about it. It's not quite finished, here's the link:

Part 1: http://www.skyrimchat.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=public&action=display&thread=64

Part 2: http://www.skyrimchat.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=public&action=display&thread=65

I think we should wipe the floor with those snobby bastards, teach them not to mess with Skyrim!

[eev2000]

Why does no one like the dominion??? Almost everybody that I see that plays skyrim sides with the nords, or the people that do side with the empire still hate the thalmor. Elves rule mwahaha! You should be able to side with the thalmor if you wanted to. If that doesn't happen I think I will die. Also becoming High King doesn't make sense. Every high king that I can see on the wikis have been noble born...and some people like to play as elves... It'd make more sense to either reforge the empire to it's former glory and become emperor after you kill that drunk, Titus Mede..., ORRR join the Thalmor and give them the location of Sky haven temple, what time Ulfric goes outside to catch some fresh air, or where titus mede's food is made...Oh wait that's already in the game. I HATE YOU TITUS MEDE! And eventually the thalmor will RULE THE WORLD!

 

Also I have some seperate dlc ideas...shadow magic...made a mod request for that, about you traveling to Azra's Crossing in Hammerfell or something similar. A new daedric realm, maybe Moonshadow. Traveling to Summerset Isle, a dlc possibly as big as Shivering Isles (Oh please please PLEASE!), where you would solve all the thalmor stuff and possibly for the mages, you could join the Psijic Order.