Failure in Games and Quests

[BlackCompany]

I read a lot of books. (This will be important to the topic shortly, I promise.)

 

By "a lot" I mean hundreds. And more hundreds still. Across numerous genres from Historical Fiction - mostly Bernard Cornwells, and what do you mean you haven't - to Fantasy, Sci-fi and even a smattering of horror once upon a time. I read spiritual works and philosophy. But fiction is my first love and I always come back to it in the end. And do you know why?

 

Because of the characters.

 

They are characters like Roland of Gilead, Corwin of Amber, the Talion Justice Nolan (Talion: Revenant. Read it. Now). The Vampire Lestat is another, and Atticus, the Hounded, Hexed Druid. Even Sherlock Holmes made a mistake or two in his time (Irene Adler and Stephen King's phenomenal 'The Doctor's Case' come to mind.) I love each of these character as much - if not more - for their flaws and their mistakes - for their failures, if you will - than I do for their successes. I love them because in seeing them err, in seeing them make a mistake, we see them become, if just for a time, more human, more believable. We see them as we often see one another, and ourselves: As fallible creatures able to make a mistake, learn from it and better ourselves for having done so. As being able to get back up, when we fall.

 

Gaming, I think, could take a lesson from this. Once upon a time a game allowed us to fail. Had a real game over screen and all. No more second chances; no more tries. You have to start over again. Period. Once upon a time a game allowed us to learn from out mistakes and improve because of them. It less us be human and still succeed.

 

Modern games have robbed us of that. And they have robbed us of the feeling of accomplishment that comes with it. Which is the real reason for trophies and achievements now. Completing a game is not hard; you need patience, not skill. Time, but not to practice. So to replace that feeling of 'wow, I did it' developers have invented trophies and achievements to make us feel good about spending 100 hours clicking the same button sequences millions of others click.

 

I guess it sounds strange to say I want to fail in a game. Odd, I know. But I do. I think it would allow me to bond with my character in a way I am currently unable to do, if that character could somehow fail to achieve something, then get back up and move on with their "life" having learned from their failure.

 

Maybe you didn't get to the cave in time to rescue the hostages; maybe the boss was able to knock you unconscious (by getting you low on health) and take some of your possessions before running away and leaving you for dead; maybe you failed to find the clues in the dungeon and so cannot retrieve the final treasure (Hunted The Demon's Forge did this to great effect, and there was no going back for a second look.) And maybe, just maybe, you learned from those things. Maybe you got hit by that swinging log and woke up in a city, in the temple, minus a few hundred gold a "good samaritan" kept for their trouble.

 

Be more careful next time.

 

Perhaps its time for a "Dead is Dead" run through of Skyrim. Maybe with a weaker, flawed Stealth-oriented "adventurer" who has no interest in "Dragonborn" or prophecy and just wants to survive in Skyrim until he can afford a home or two, if possible.

 

Its crazy, I know. Its nuts. But I want to fail. Or at least, I want to be able to fail, in a game. To make a mistake and pick myself back up and dust myself off and learn. I want to see the flawed, mistake-prone, human side of my character, and live to tell about it and move on and make amends.

 

I want to forget the face of my father for just a moment, and when circumstance calls for it, make amends and shoot not with my hand, but with my heart, once more.

[Rennn]

You should try Dark Souls. That game will make you cry, though whether they're tears of joy at beholding the beautiful mystery of the world, or tears of rage at dying for the hundredth time is up to you.

 

Having said that, I'd like a feature like this modded into Skyrim as well. Something like...

 

"Oh, you got all my soldiers, my dearest friends, killed and and only took out four bandits. That's great. Guess what, instead of giving you more guys and sending you out to try again, I'm going to kick your disgraced *** out of the Companions. Good day, sir."

Edited March 23, 2012 by Rennn

[jordanLoL]

You should try Dark Souls. That game will make you cry, though whether they're tears of joy at beholding the beautiful mystery of the world, or tears of rage at dying for the hundredth time is up to you.

 

Having said that, I'd like a feature like this modded into Skyrim as well. Something like...

 

"Oh, you got all my soldiers, my dearest friends, killed and and only took out four bandits. That's great. Guess what, instead of giving you more guys and sending you out to try again, I'm going to kick your disgraced *** out of the Companions. Good day, sir."

 

I wish more games had approaches like that. Sadly, most games now are based off of a click to win system. No real consequences for anything.

[CarlCorey]

What is this "Amber" of which you speak ...

[GeeZee]

Modern games have robbed us of that. And they have robbed us of the feeling of accomplishment that comes with it. Which is the real reason for trophies and achievements now. Completing a game is not hard; you need patience, not skill. Time, but not to practice. So to replace that feeling of 'wow, I did it' developers have invented trophies and achievements to make us feel good about spending 100 hours clicking the same button sequences

 

No real consequences for anything.

 

That's because modern games are designed and made for the lowest common denominator.

 

In the current state of events, the profit-oriented titles have absolutely ZERO CHANCE to be something ambitious.

 

Recently writing-wise Fallout: New Vegas tried it's best, but even Obsidian got a mixed results, partly because of a nerfed gameplay. The latter is the kind of issue you were especially referring to, but still, I consider intellectual accomplishment to be at least as much of an importance, especially regarding that second quote, so it counts.

Edited March 23, 2012 by GeeZee

[BlackCompany]

What is this "Amber" of which you speak ...

 

I see you, good sir, are familiar with the view from atop Mount Kolvir. Well played!

[Rennn]

 

That's because modern games are designed and made for the lowest common denominator.

 

In the current state of events, the profit-oriented titles have absolutely ZERO CHANCE to be something ambitious.

 

 

Sadly, totally true. I feel like the game industry as a whole has almost abandoned it's core audience to try to pull in the 'mainstream family'. It's probably not going to work, since so many people just don't have an interest in games. Consoles are taking more and more money to research and build (Since consoles are the home of the lowest common denominator, no offense, it's the truth. No casual gamer is going to spend $1000 on a gaming rig. That's not an insult, just a fact. Have you ever met a non-gamer who bought a GTX 580 just so he could manage tax returns with blazing speed?).

 

The point is, consoles are costing more money, games are higher budget now, and since so many "fans" just want to click'n'win, no big company that pours tens of thousands of dollars into a game is going to risk alienating the casual "gamers" by putting in a load of freedom and choice. Independent games are the way to go most of the time, I think. The larger companies are pouring so much money into capturing a fickle audience, they won't do anything risky or new.

 

The sad part is eventually the fake "fans" are going to get sick of spending so much money on games that they're going to overextend the companies and make the whole thing crash. Don't believe me? I get asked from time to time why I still game. People think it's a fad that you get bored with or outgrow as soon as you get a car. I have to very rigidly inform them that gaming was alive and kicking long before they noticed the pretty boxes and commercials, and it'll still be alive after they move on to their next little diversion and break someone else's hobby.

 

The casual 'gamer' allowed the industry to thrive, but ultimately as a society we don't stay interested in stuff for long. I don't look forward to the day when gaming becomes the 'weirdo' thing again.

 

At least their noob corpses are padding my 5/1 average k/d in Killzone 3...

Edited March 24, 2012 by Rennn

[BlackCompany]

Good point about intellectual achievement. Very important in games. More so than button clicking achievement, often times.

 

Also a good point about getting kicked out factions based on performance. There was a time, recently, in both Skyrim and in Amalur, too, where I was sent on a faction-related mission. Companions and Warsworn, respectively. And on both occasions I came back alone despite having taken members of the factions along with me. Needless to say, they failed to survive. And there weren't even any consequences for me. None. They just took my word that I had not doubled crossed their now-deceased members and taken their crap for my own. No questions, no consequences.

 

Why when I try and assassinate someone on a DB quest, and am caught by guards, am I not reprimanded by the DB? If I am caught by Guards on too many Sweeps, should not the Thieves Guild kick me out for failing? Moreover, when I am deep inside a dungeon, and am "killed" how about having my total health reduced by 25% (each time), maybe my stamina, too, and perhaps having my overall damage dealt lowered as a "wound" effect. Then, with those debilitating effects in place, I have to struggle back to my feet and try again. As opposed to, you know, reloading the quick save from 30 seconds before the fight and trying again with no penalty at all?

 

Seeing my character killed is also an immersion killer, but hey.

 

I would love for games to have consequences. I want to be able to play a "human" character who screws up and learns and does better next time. Please stop turning my RPG games into Medieval versions of the Truman Show. Please.

[flobalob]

@Renn I think that the point nowadays is not so much that companies are necessarily unwilling (although that may be a part) to invest in an "Off mainstream" game so much that its financially not viable to do so. After all if the budget on a modern game comes in the millions of dollars and the game subsequently flops, then the software house that produced said game will probably not be around long enough to make another.

[Rennn]

@Renn I think that the point nowadays is not so much that companies are necessarily unwilling (although that may be a part) to invest in an "Off mainstream" game so much that its financially not viable to do so. After all if the budget on a modern game comes in the millions of dollars and the game subsequently flops, then the software house that produced said game will probably not be around long enough to make another.

 

That's exactly what I said, isn't it? They're not willing because it wouldn't make financial sense. Indie games don't have the massive overhead and publishing costs, so that's why they make so many unique games. Sorry if I made it sound less like money trouble and more like some kind of bias.