NPCs with poison and modded weapons

[SirDanest]

Years ago I experimented with the geck, but it appeared at the time that npcs wouldn't use attachable weapons mods or poison their weapons. I haven't found anything about this recently but I'm wondering if a way was found around this? There are some characters who almost certainly would be using weapon attachments on their rifles.

[devinpatterson]

We have some hooks for detecting weapon mods. I don't know of a way to make NPC use them and have them apply. A hack that could probably work, is an attached weapon script that checks for the existance of a weapon mod then swaps out the weapon for a new weapon that mirrors the modified weapons stats/effects.

You'd have to have some cleanup code (like under onDrop etc) to swap them back to their normal versions.

Some of the cons/disadvantages would be;

 

1.Your making a Sload of new weapon forms. For example 3 weapon mods means 7 new weapon forms. Those are essentially all copies with minor tweaks (not original/new forms) to whatever stat the mod increased, but still a lot of work by hand.

2. The cleanup code might miss some circumstances and would be complicated if you wanted to track weapon health.

3. I'm not sure how to make sure you get a modded weapon during cleanup (ie you'd be adding a baseID weapon), so you might have to swap the actual weapon into a holding container and swap it back (not sure if we have script mod functions to add weapon mods on the fly).

4. An attached weapon script will be overwritten by any other mod that edits the weapon.

 

And there could be other issues that will come to light

 

There may be something newer that solves the issue, but I'm not aware of it.

 

Re: Poison blades, I think you could use a base effect (self, touch) that would emulate a poison blade, it's how critters sting you. Then I think you'd have the same effect on the player when the NPC would connect with a swing.

 

These are just theoretical though, since I haven't tried any of the above yeyt.

[SirDanest]

That's got to be one of the weirdest oversights, the inability to put mods on weapons in the geck and hand them out to NPCs in a simple fashion. A sort of "automatically apply weapon mods/poison in npc inventories" npc geck toggle.

[devinpatterson]

Yeah, unfortunately :(

[SirDanest]

Modders have accomplished some pretty crazy things, but it sounds like this one has no practical solution. I guess that any "workbench" activities like modding weapons, crafting, etc, are all pretty complicated and can't be replicated simply by an npc on automatic. *grumble grumble* I think the legion would have benefited from using poison melee/spears and veteran rangers should probably all have heavily modded weapons.

[devinpatterson]

Modders have accomplished some pretty crazy things, but it sounds like this one has no practical solution.

Not an easy one, at least as far as I know. I think an accomplished scripter could do it the way I'v outlined above, but it's a lot of work :sad:

 

I guess that any "workbench" activities like modding weapons, crafting, etc, are all pretty complicated and can't be replicated simply by an npc on automatic. *grumble grumble*

I think the actual crafting and modding of weapons can/could be scripted, it's just that the game engine handles already modded weapon in this particular way for NPCs :sad:

 

I think the legion would have benefited from using poison melee/spears and veteran rangers should probably all have heavily modded weapons.

I do think legion poision weapons could work as a practical effect, as described in my previous post (or as an associated script on the weapon). It's not nearly as much of a mess as the modded weapons. If your interested I could look into it for you.

[SirDanest]

For my own next play-through was just thinking of using a crossbow mod and adding some Legion archers with poisoned bolts. It really seems like something they'd do... they often have weapons that are fairly primitive but their tribal connections would surely involve herbal or animal poison lore.

[devinpatterson]

For my own next play-through was just thinking of using a crossbow mod and adding some Legion archers with poisoned bolts.

I think there are a few different ways to do it, you can add a mgef to the projectile, the weapon or the wielder. I'm guessing the issue here is that you want them to make and use the poisoned bolts in a manner as close to the way the player does as possible. If they are your henchmen (if I'm understanding your post correctly) you can make a variant of poisoned bolts and they will use them as ammo.

This isn't the same bolt/arrow/projectile as the player poisions by using the consumable, it's a mgef on the bolt and anyone that fires that projectile (player or npc) will get a venom effect. That would be pretty easy to do at a workbench with the bolts, some venom and the recipe. Then just hand them out to whoever you to equip with the venomous bolts. If you link me to the crossbow mod I bet I could whip something up for you.

 

It really seems like something they'd do...

I"m not sure, I think I could see the argument both ways. They certainly aren't "above" using something like poison due to your typical ethical restrictions, but, it may clash with their core ideology as described below;

 

"A natural consequence of this is the emphasis placed on personal sacrifice. Victory cannot be achieved without sacrificing blood and life. To this end, the Legion shuns robots, as they firmly believe that mankind requires warriors and their sacrifice, rather than gadgets that allow for bloodless victories.[27] Naturally, the Legion forbids painkillers and other chems as detrimental to the human condition and Caesar's long-term plans to reshape humanity. Ignorance of medical science among the legionaries also ensures that only the hardiest will survive and go on to become deadly veterans.[28]"

 

So I suspect you could make a case for it either way, I wouldn't let it be an issue though....if you want poison bolts (or spears etc) for legionnaires, I don't think it's a huge transgression of lore

they often have weapons that are fairly primitive but their tribal connections would surely involve herbal or animal poison lore.

They do use healing powder and it makes sense to me that they would assimilate herbal knowledge, it would be more of their warrior/sacrifice ideology that was a roadblock to poison.

re: primitive weapons, I do believe they would be more than happy to use advanced weapons in combat (ie not robots or methods that take them out of the battle) if they had them. Like the NCR they just dont' have a lot of energy weapons available. They use powerfists, thermic lances etc, so I don't think they have an prohibition against higher tech armament.

[SirDanest]

I haven't actually even tested this crossbow mod yet... it's just plans for my next playthrough which will begin with New California's release. https://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/47798
I think I can handle companions/henchmen already by making my own poisoned weapons for them. I'm thinking they could be on the legion archers I'm thinking of adding in. You can actually run in circles to kill Caesar and his troops just chase you almost helplessly if you run properly.
As for a warrior's sacrifice, I'd say charging a gun-wielding enemy army using only a poisoned medieval weapon is plenty brave.


Courier: I defeated the legion single-handedly!

NCR: How did you do it?!

Courier: Backpedaling and running in a circle. :wink:

Ok, ok, I exaggerate as _some_ of them have guns, but mostly, backpedaling and circle-strafing are the legion's greatest weakness.

Edited April 1, 2018 by SirDanest

[devinpatterson]

I'm thinking they could be on the legion archers I'm thinking of adding in.

If I understand correctly, that's even simpler.....since a recipe wouldn't be needed, just the projectile. However I can't edit that mod's esp, it's permissions are very restrictive;

" The use of my mod without my permission, in whole or in part constitutes a crime and is treated as such. I'm sorry, but that's it. :)"

But you can make up some bolts for private use. I might be able to make a seperate dependent esp with poisioned bolts, since I'm not editing his/her mod if you can't or don't want to whip up your own esp.

 

You can actually run in circles to kill Caesar and his troops just chase you almost helplessly if you run properly.

Yep, circle strafing has been a thing since FPSs.