Newer Outfit Studio applying additional unselected transformations?

[SmedleyDButler]

I've been working on some Witcher based mashups, one of which involved creating a female version of the male Nilfgaardian armour from Witcher 3:

Basically, I've been working on some mesh conversions in OS. Mostly converting male armours to female by rescaling them and then applying the push-pull comands to do the actual reshaping. Here's the current project:

 

 

My workflow in this case was to use an existing female mesh with legs & trousers, then paste in the male torso meshes to be transformed. I have also tried the inverse, a male mesh with female legs added. Neither seems to change anything.

 

I've done this sort of thing previously but used to do my rescaling/moving in Nifskope first and only using OS for reshaping afterwards. I realized this was silly and that it would be both easier and more accurate to do the entire project in OS, but have run into a problem. Any meshes edited in OS in this way (I have tried multiple), have an additional hidden transformation added by OS. I do not add the extra transformation myself, and I can only see it when I open the file in Nifskope. Here's the above file when opened in Nifskope:

 

 

Not so good! When I look at the edited torso meshes using the edit function, I can see there's an unapplied transformation which was added at some point:

 

If I apply those transformations in Nifskope, the mesh appears correct in Nifskope, but if I go back and open it using OS, the torso is distorted THERE instead (being huge instead of tiny, of course.

 

I am using the latest stable build of both Nifskope and OS.

 

You can access the meshes themselves here:

 

Original male source mesh for the torso elements

Converted mesh after my editing in OS

 

Weirder still, someone was trying to help me sort this problem out and opened and edited the mesh successfully in Outfit Studio v3.2. Apparently when they loaded it in the older version of OS, it appears the same as it does in nifskope - with a tiny, rotated torso. So they fixed it by eyeball and sent me their version edited in OS v3.2, which you can see here:

 

Mesh edited in OS v3.2 (alternate reference body added by other party)

 

As this was not quite back to what I'd done in the first place, I opened OS again and tried fixing it up to see what happened. THIS time I was able to transform, edit and use any tools with the mesh with no conflict between Nifskope or OS. Everything worked just fine! So whatever Outfit Studio 3.2 correct, it do so permanently - only I still have no idea WHY!

 

Final mesh

 

So, I've been given a fish, but I'd prefer to learn how to fish, as it were; to solve the issue without having to revert all the way back to OS 3.x (especially since newer versions of OS have features and fixes I've wanted for a long time).

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

 

EDIT: Updated post with clearer information and additional details.

Edited April 2, 2018 by SmedleyDButler

[SmedleyDButler]

EDIT: All updated information has now been collected into the OP. See above.

Edited April 2, 2018 by SmedleyDButler

[SmedleyDButler]

So I ended up contacting Ousnius directly and he very kindly provided the answer to the mystery. I'm putting it up here in case anyone else ever has this problem and comes across this thread:

 

 

ousnius, on 02 Apr 2018 - 08:34 AM, said:

Hey,

 

meshes in Skyrim and FO4 have a vertex position, a shape transform, a skin transform and bone transforms for each bone.

Outfit Studio renders all of them except for the individual bone transforms, because those would be in the way a lot when editing meshes or when transforms aren't correct.

 

Now the problem is, often meshes were created in really unclean ways using the various 3ds max or Blender plugins (or bad practices in the tools).

They can have transforms all over the place, including skin transforms that are then "corrected" using bone transforms, which is horrible and Outfit Studio won't render the latter so it will be off.

 

In older versions of OS, there were no transforms being rendered yet, so those meshes can sometimes "accidentally" appear in the right spot, because neither the positive (skin) nor negative (bone) transforms were rendered.

If you have the latest version of NifSkope (Dev 7), what you will see there is exactly as it will appear in-game. So you can use that to check.

 

To fix any and all transforms, you can always export meshes to OBJ files, unload the current project (or close OS) so that any stored transforms are deleted and import the OBJ files back.

Preferably you should load a reference body with correct transforms before loading other meshes. Then you can copy bone weights back.

 

An alternative is disabling the "Skinned" checkbox in the shape properties of the meshes.

This will delete all weights, bones and bone transforms from the mesh and you can copy those of a reference (again make sure to load the reference first).

 

In the end it all comes down to bone transforms and unclean exports. This isn't something that happens for every outfit.

 

Regards,

ousnius