A question of merging and mod overwrites

[SirDanest]

Let's say I have a mod that erases a vanilla character's gun, and replaces it with, hell, an axe. And then I have another mod that adds a helmet to that character.
As I understand it, the the mod that loads second, further down on the load order list, overwrites the previous, right? So I think the helmet would be there but not the axe.
What if I merge both mods into a single esp? Or even if Wrye Bash merges both plugins into a bashed patch?

[dubiousintent]

That situation is what is called a "record level conflict". If you don't create a "compatibility/feature patch", you are correct that the second, later loading plugin "wins" the conflict. Wrye Bash/Flash does indeed deal with record conflicts, but in an automated manner. In this instance you want more control of the resolution for a particular result. A "compatibility patch" is the way to resolve that conflict between both plugins in the specific way you want. Please see Making a Feature (Override) patch Video by Roy Batty.

 

For a broader discussion of the issues see the wiki "Merged Plugin Guidelines for Personal Use" article.

 

-Dubious-

[SirDanest]

So simply pushing the two into a single plugin won't be sufficient, one will still override the other?

[dubiousintent]

Assuming you are speaking about using "Mator's Merge Plugin Standalone" (MPS) to do the merging, then "No". The author carefully points out that MPS doesn't perform record conflict resolution. Mator's SMASH does, but it uses the "merge down" technique to create a new plugin. If you are thinking of using something else, please provide particular's and I'll see if I can help.

 

The issue is one of which plugin has particular "art assets". In this case you have the mesh and texture of one weapon in plugin "A", which you wish to replace with the mesh and texture of another from plugin "B". (Same applies to the helmet, so I'll ignore that for now.) Depending upon the plugin in question, those assets are located in the ESM or the ESP file. In order to "merge" them into one plugin you have to "inject" those assets from one plugin that currently has them into the other, thus creating a new third plugin. That's what the wiki "Merged Plugin Guidelines for Personal Use" article discusses.

 

But in this instance you are talking about "conflicting" plugins, because they have different weapon (and helmet) records. A "compatibility patch" still requires the original plugins as "masters" because they have those assets. As you want to turn both of those "masters" and one "dependency" into a single file, it's my understanding this is a more difficult undertaking. (I've avoided attempting such, as you are essentially attempting to create a new mod. By implication this is for a "non-companion NPC", because you could simply swap equipment in the inventory of a companion or the player.) Doesn't mean it can't be done. Just not something I have experience with and goes beyond what merging and mod overwriting accomplishes.

 

[Edit: Corrected MPS and SMASH roles.)

 

-Dubious-

[SirDanest]

I've been experimenting with the wrye flash bashed patch (which sometimes wants to merge some mods into it) and the merge plugins standalone. https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/69905/?

[dubiousintent]

The Bashed Patch (BP) uses an algorithm to merge plugins. The use of "Bash Tags" provided some control, but not down to the level you want in this instance. Please see the wiki "Bash Tags and the Wrye Bash Patch" article.

The BP only merges plugins completely when every record in the plugin is being included in the BP. This does not happen when "master files" are involved (by definition).

 

Mator's "Merge Plugin Standalone" (MPS) does not perform record level conflict resolution. (I confused the roles of SMASH and MPS in my previous post; now corrected. They are correctly identified in the wiki "Merged Plugin Guidelines for Personal Use" article. Which is why I refer people to it as otherwise it is easy to confuse things because the terminology is so similar.) And because it performs a "merge down" technique, it creates a new plugin. However, as explained in that article, it cannot do that for "compatibility patches" (which are for more than one "master file").

 

-Dubious-

[SirDanest]

The complexity comes from, it seems, trying to do two things at once.
One, is that I'm trying to make a merged compatibility patch, to resolve conflicts.
The second is trying to merge many plugins into one single esp, to stay under the mod limit.
I can do either one of these alone successfully. It gets harder when I try to do both. It looks at best like a tedious process with a very large number of mods.

Wrye seems to solve leveled list conflicts, at least. I've had multiple weapon mods for instance, and they all end up appearing with merchants' leveled lists.

Edit: I think I might try making several big merges of mods that do not conflict within that particular merge, and then designing a compatibility patch for those merges.

Edited April 12, 2018 by SirDanest