LE Adressing the lack of quest Mods: A collaboration between Modders, Wri

[Ozi27]

As my partner has just said above,we writers are not demanding and not planning(at least me) to go bossing around modders. At least from my point of view,lines like "do it my way or get out" and "do what i want when i tell you" are something horrible. Modders are before nay othe thing,people like us... maybe a little better than us,because they can achieve(inside some margins) what we are dreaming of. I always approach modders with the maximum respect because of the beforementioned reason, and when i have an idea,i do not demand it, i BEG for it,and i'm always conscious that the engine has limitations and in my requests (Kana.my lovely ghost is the second) always have a list of variables in mind to try to cover things that can't be done because the engine or because they would take an unreasonable amount of time. And by the way,talking about credit,i expect none of it, because the script writers,the 3-d modelers and the texture drawers deserve all the credit. If you want proof,go to oblivion mods section and look for "Black Shark Katana" and if you find my nickname there as 2-D concept designer an sword story writer,i take out my requests and uninstall skyrim from my PC. I worked hard for that,remade the design seven times so the modder could see it well and in the end,he made half of the sword the way he liked it and completely ignored the background story of the sword... he didn't mention me even to say it was a request,so imagine how much credit i'm expecting here. For me,better than credits,kudos or whatever is to see that something that was born in my mind is made a "reality" in the game... the closest thing to being a father that i'm gonna be in my life.

It really hurts me to think that the people we'll be relying on to make these little dreams come true have such a low opinion of us

[ThoseTolerableNoobs]

@Above

 

Well said, I think it about sums up my feelings on the matter. That reminds me, I think I was supposed to help you with that My Lovely Ghost questline...right?

[Ozi27]

@ Above

 

Well,as i suppoused that we're on a team now,we're to help each other what we can,right? :biggrin:

[delfofthebla]

I wish you all the luck with this as you will need it.

 

I will play devils advocate here. :devil:

 

You are fairly new to this. I, and most of our good modders have been around a while. We have seen literally hundreds, if not thousands, of this type of, "I have a great idea :dance: I want to recruit a team to make a mod - If I can just get a group together to do all the drudge work for me." :pinch:

 

All of the good modders have seen these, and most have even tried to help on some. (Including me). Most have given up and dropped out when they learn the idea, while good, is 1. Just not doable in the form that the OP demands it.

2. The OP demands that they do all the drudge work while he is to get the major portion of credit.

3. Their contributions to the story, plot and writing are not really acceptable to the OP

4. "Do it MY WAY or get out!"

5. The OP really doesn't have any modding talent and his only contribution is the original idea. But he wants to tell those with talent how to do it.

6. Will take all of their free time for the next six months.

7. Even though there are a dozen people on the team, he is doing nearly all of the actual work.

8. He has to spend all of his time fixing the screw ups of the ones learning to mod.

9. Personality clash with other team members.

10 - The big one - He doesn't have the time.

 

The Litch mod is likely doable, but maybe not in exactly the way you envision it. The romance - well, not so much. Take a look at the other attempts to put romance into the game. Yes, it has been tried but without much success so far. And I'm not talking about the porn mods. :rolleyes:

 

The reality is that an idea here is not worth much as we have an entire forum topic just for that, and filled with wonderful ideas (seriously, wonderful ideas. :thumbsup:) But When it comes down to putting code into the game, most (Not all) have no clue of what is really involved when you have to deal with the Gambryo engine - Renamed and labeled all new for Skyrim, but still just another iteration of the same quirky engine Bethesda has been using for the last 10 years.

 

The typical 'idea man' wants to direct the entire operation - telling very independent minded modders what he wants and how he wants it done and when he must have it with no consideration of what they want. Then demanding that they subordinate their schedule to his demands. "Why isn't that part you said you could do in 3 days done yet? It's been 3 weeks! I don't care if you have to study for finals, you said you could do it!" And, "I know that's what I said I wanted, but I changed my mind, change it to this because it's better." (2 weeks modding work flushed - likely one less team member to boss around.)

 

Nearly every team I have seen - including the ones I have been involved with (again there are exceptions - Nehrim in Oblivion is one - and it took nearly 4 years with a very competent core group of modders to make) has broken up fairly quickly with the various talent going their own way.

 

My guess is that less than 15% of these ever get beyond the planning stage, and less than 5% get actually uploaded. And then with the original lofty goals very much reduced to accommodate reality. However, during the process, the Idea man either learns to mod on his own and does much of the actual drudge work himself (Usually more than his fair share). OR gives up and goes away with a bitter attitude toward the modders who just would not do what he told them to.

 

Now, Don't let this discourage you. You CAN learn to mod. :yes: but please please start small and actually learn what is involved before attempting any grandiose major epic mod. Then rewrite your epic mod to fit - Not what you would like to see (but isn't doable), and not what is technically possible, but what is more likely to be feasible given the limitations imposed by the game engine and the available talent.

 

Do ONE mod at a time. Then break that down into smaller segments to make it manageable. Maybe start with the litch, - first create a litch race, then make it a playable race, then maybe a way to change from human to litch to change your character into a litch It's possible that the vampire or werewolf scripts could be be modified for this.

 

You're totally spelling Lich wrong. :P But yeah, I do agree with you. The very nature of Elder Scrolls modding breeds the kind of behavior that you describe, and I know this well. Even I am a little guilty of some of what you describe, but unlike most others, I do have the skills to do the work. Not everything of course, but enough to make a difference.

 

As far as the True Lichdom mod goes however, I would sooner bleed from my eyes due to lack of sleep than let that project die. I've got quite a lot of free time, and I am very passionate about the concept. The benefit of having a mod idea and being a programmer, is that I have a very realistic outlook on how long things will take. (In my opinion anyways) I've also released a mod for an Elder Scrolls game before, so I really do think I have a decent grasp of how much time and commitment is required to complete this kind of project.

 

True Lichdom is something I wanted to create long before Skyrim was even released. I've made several WIP threads across the Bethesda/Nexus forums, I keep in constant contact with the community regarding its progress/design desitions, and not a day goes by that I do not work towards its completion. It very well could end up as you describe--abandoned and never released, but the only way I could see that happening is over my god damn dead body.

Edited April 29, 2012 by delfofthebla

[bben46]

As I said, I was playing devils advocate - I would like to see this finished. As your post count is low and your join date is recent I may have underestimated your abilities (I Hope so) I was trying to lay out some of the possible problems I have seen with other teams for large mods that take a lot of time. Hopefully so you can either avoid them altogether or work around them. :thumbsup:

 

As for Litch vs Lich. :facepalm:

[ThoseTolerableNoobs]

@bben46

 

Well, like I said earlier, thanks for contributing, I've taken everything that's been said on board, constructive criticism is no different. :)

[muppetpuppet]

So just found this thread , adding my50 cents .

I've beed working on the moonpath by myself ever since the ck came out. And I must agree making a quest mod is really an unrealistic task for one person. It's turned into a obsessive hobby for me, it being. Hugely rewarding and addictive. Only recently I've gotten help from great people such as chisiokage, especially for the voice acting and writing. And it's improved the quality tremendously .

 

However I'm a bit of a loner in this , I like to tell my story with as little collaboration as possible. I think because it might just be a great personal creative exhaust. I believe thirteen oranges is also doing it alone, so it might be a common cause why there's so few meaty quest mods.

 

This said the lack of real popularity also plays a part. Im loathed to admit it but what keeps a fanatical modded going is the feedback and compliments from the audience. I never expected that , but honestly for every Joyfully comment I can get enough motivation to fix another dozen bugs etc etc. so yeah like mentioned it may take time. But I'm not certain. The nexus although wholly superior to steam does seem to cater to an audience less interested in stories. Although I fear the root it's that players have sense that user quest mod are inferior or poor quality, and would dilute their vanilla play experienced. And sometimes this might be the case. Perhaps this is a symptom of more hardcore gamers.

 

On steam both the moonpath and hirteen oranges quests are much higher ranked as on the nexus, gosh moonpath only entered top 100 non adult last week. On steam it's n 26 off all time. So perhaps more casual gamers hae less preconceptions on what's cool and good enough.

 

So that's my little rant on quest odd in general on to collaborating.

Like I said I'm a bit of a Line modder and I have found it difficult to successfully get the people who do pitch in to happily work together, So ii find it difficult , I have to manage in my day job, and certainly don't want to manage a team in my hobby. So that's what's stopping me from join other teams, that and the moonpath keeps me busy enough :)

 

But practically I do create a fair bit off stuff, and I've been sharing it so that it helps other modders tell their own stories,

I've got a bunch of creatures (shared with dogtown already, he helped me get them working) and besides the raptor, , hyenas and therium there will be more. So if there's a creature you might need for you projects just let me know, I might be working onit or able to use it for he moonpath as well if it doesn't exist. For instance been toying with the idea of making an imga.

 

I off course also have my tropical and desert sets of models and textures your free to use:) ( a few mods are already using them)

 

So if you see something in the moonpath which usefull, or would like something I might have made or will make, feel free to p.m. Me

 

Also chisiokage is one proffesioal voice actor, highly recommend him ;)

[JCP768]

So just found this thread , adding my50 cents .

I've beed working on the moonpath by myself ever since the ck came out. And I must agree making a quest mod is really an unrealistic task for one person. It's turned into a obsessive hobby for me, it being. Hugely rewarding and addictive. Only recently I've gotten help from great people such as chisiokage, especially for the voice acting and writing. And it's improved the quality tremendously .

 

Integration

Then again, bg2408 is crazy, and he did have my equally crazy and weird help in testing the mod. Other than that it was just him, a texture artist to take the occasional request, and a few modder's resources.

 

I agree with what you said about popularity. I've been trying forever to get Integration some recognition, with little success.

[ThoseTolerableNoobs]

So just found this thread , adding my50 cents .

I've beed working on the moonpath by myself ever since the ck came out. And I must agree making a quest mod is really an unrealistic task for one person. It's turned into a obsessive hobby for me, it being. Hugely rewarding and addictive. Only recently I've gotten help from great people such as chisiokage, especially for the voice acting and writing. And it's improved the quality tremendously .

 

However I'm a bit of a loner in this , I like to tell my story with as little collaboration as possible. I think because it might just be a great personal creative exhaust. I believe thirteen oranges is also doing it alone, so it might be a common cause why there's so few meaty quest mods.

 

This said the lack of real popularity also plays a part. Im loathed to admit it but what keeps a fanatical modded going is the feedback and compliments from the audience. I never expected that , but honestly for every Joyfully comment I can get enough motivation to fix another dozen bugs etc etc. so yeah like mentioned it may take time. But I'm not certain. The nexus although wholly superior to steam does seem to cater to an audience less interested in stories. Although I fear the root it's that players have sense that user quest mod are inferior or poor quality, and would dilute their vanilla play experienced. And sometimes this might be the case. Perhaps this is a symptom of more hardcore gamers.

 

On steam both the moonpath and hirteen oranges quests are much higher ranked as on the nexus, gosh moonpath only entered top 100 non adult last week. On steam it's n 26 off all time. So perhaps more casual gamers hae less preconceptions on what's cool and good enough.

 

So that's my little rant on quest odd in general on to collaborating.

Like I said I'm a bit of a Line modder and I have found it difficult to successfully get the people who do pitch in to happily work together, So ii find it difficult , I have to manage in my day job, and certainly don't want to manage a team in my hobby. So that's what's stopping me from join other teams, that and the moonpath keeps me busy enough :)

 

But practically I do create a fair bit off stuff, and I've been sharing it so that it helps other modders tell their own stories,

I've got a bunch of creatures (shared with dogtown already, he helped me get them working) and besides the raptor, , hyenas and therium there will be more. So if there's a creature you might need for you projects just let me know, I might be working onit or able to use it for he moonpath as well if it doesn't exist. For instance been toying with the idea of making an imga.

 

I off course also have my tropical and desert sets of models and textures your free to use:) ( a few mods are already using them)

 

So if you see something in the moonpath which usefull, or would like something I might have made or will make, feel free to p.m. Me

 

Also chisiokage is one proffesioal voice actor, highly recommend him ;)

 

Thanks!

 

I did approach Chisiokage to voice a character in a questline mod, true Lichdom, for which I am the writer. Unfortunately he wasn't enthusiastic about free voice work :(, and I don't blame him. I would also like to say that I downloaded Moonpath on Steam, and I thought that it was excellent, although my frame rate took a massive fall lol.

 

Thanks for the offer of textures :)

[Cynster]

I'm not very experienced, but I've made a few mods and I'm starting a quest one now. For that one I've done some voice acting. I've also done some navmeshing, character creation, building unique structures using vanilla meshes, homes. Anywho - like I said, I'm not very experienced, but I would like to help if you need an extra voice or extra help here and there. If you'd like to take a look, you can view Cuilalie Haven - especially the Optional WIP where I've done voice acting for her (obviously it isn't done yet). It's a very young sounding soft voice, kind of forlorn maybe. So if you needed a character like that, -shrug- but I have never worked on a modding team and I wouldn't want to hold you guys back.

 

From a modder's perspective - ideas are great, but I like working on my own the best, and what would help me the most (or inspire me) would be requests or suggestions of things that you could incorporate into many types of mods, because then I can do a bit of what I enjoy and include something that is wanted too. For example - just reading your first post, it struck a cord with me - yes, we need more quest mods. And that is something lots of modders can do on their own time and at their own pace individually - and I'd prefer lots of different types of quests than huge quests, not that huge quests aren't neat. But I think it would have more of an impact on a smaller scale with a focus of quests - but you can't force anyone to do what you want them to do. Sorry, just kind of rambling on... Just my opinion, if it helps >.<

Edited May 13, 2012 by cynster