Dear Bethesda, This is What is what meant to look like

[Rooker75]

There's a reason Microsoft doesn't want PC and Xbox gamers playing against each other. I'll just leave this sitting here.

 

That's the main reason I like the PC for games so much, because I really enjoy watching a good game grow into something even more spectacular once modders have had some time to work with it.

 

Something else that puts me off consoles is the control freak behavior of the companies that make them. Bethesda very clearly wanted to let console users to be able to use mods for Skyrim, but they couldn't get around the restrictions imposed by Microsoft and Sony. Microsoft and Sony have the bizarre idea that they can dictate how you use your own private property.

 

Sony promoted the Playstation as having support for alternate operating systems, such as Linux. The US Navy even created a supercomputer cluster using several PS3s running some flavor of Linux. Then they disabled the feature. Then they sued a guy for explaining how to make the feature work again. Microsoft has actually had people arrested for selling kits that would modify an Xbox to run Linux.

 

Screw that. When I buy something, it is my private property and I'll do whatever the hell I want with it. If whoever made it doesn't like what I do with it, they can go cry about it for all I care.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Rooker75

[BeastlyBeast]

Well, the thing is, TECHNICALLY (the MOST technical sense you can get into) that Xbox, or PS3 still isn't TRULY your private property. This may be a bad analogy, but take this for an example. You pay rent for a really nice apartment. Now, suppose you do stuff to the apartment, or furniture or whatever that completely changes it, such as breaking it, modifying it or whatever. NOW, out of nowhere, the landlord comes with a large fine. Why? You're paying for this apartment, and TECHNICALLY the stuff is yours for the time being. Well, this is where that technical crap comes into play. The landlord set up the apartment like it was so that you can enjoy it. If you tamper with it, and abuse it, of course the Landlord isn't going to like that. Same goes for PS3 and ESPECIALLY Xbox, since you pay for most of the xbox's features. It's basically like renting. You're paying for your xbox (apartment), and if you tamper with the Xbox (break the furniture) then Microsoft (the Landlord) will have your butt...

[Rooker75]

This may be a bad analogy

 

You probably should have stopped right there.

 

You don't rent a console; you own it. If your Xbox pisses you off and you smash it with a hammer, you haven't broken any laws and don't owe anyone reimbursement. Why? Because that was your private property. The smashed bits resulting from the loss of temper are still your private property.

[Karasuman]

Well, the thing is, TECHNICALLY (the MOST technical sense you can get into) that Xbox, or PS3 still isn't TRULY your private property. This may be a bad analogy, but take this for an example. You pay rent for a really nice apartment. Now, suppose you do stuff to the apartment, or furniture or whatever that completely changes it, such as breaking it, modifying it or whatever. NOW, out of nowhere, the landlord comes with a large fine. Why? You're paying for this apartment, and TECHNICALLY the stuff is yours for the time being. Well, this is where that technical crap comes into play. The landlord set up the apartment like it was so that you can enjoy it. If you tamper with it, and abuse it, of course the Landlord isn't going to like that. Same goes for PS3 and ESPECIALLY Xbox, since you pay for most of the xbox's features. It's basically like renting. You're paying for your xbox (apartment), and if you tamper with the Xbox (break the furniture) then Microsoft (the Landlord) will have your butt...

 

A better and more accurate analogy is you buying a car, let's say a Ford, and then Ford gets pissed off and sends the police to your house to arrest you when you put a bigger engine and other performance parts in that car. This is exactly what Sony and Microsoft are doing to their users, and it's complete and utter BS that they're allowed to do it.

 

You probably should have stopped right there.

 

You don't rent a console; you own it. If your Xbox pisses you off and you smash it with a hammer, you haven't broken any laws and don't owe anyone reimbursement. Why? Because that was your private property. The smashed bits resulting from the loss of temper are still your private property.

 

Spot on.

[BeastlyBeast]

So, that big PS3 scam where the PS3 was down for like 2 months, bcuz people hacked it and got people's credit card info, was right in your eyes? 'Just another day on our PS3' those hackers probably said. Not antagonizing at all. I'm just saying I see faults in your concept of how an Xbox or a PS3 is purely your private property, and you have the right to do whatever you want with it, no questions asked. I get it, but it isn't really true. Technically, those guys did something console users do ever day: Hack. But, they were arrested. Why? Because they hacked, and, in the process, stole people's personal information. Yes, they hacked directly into the heart of where all PS3's are linked, or whatever, but from the way your analogy is coming across, that was okay.

 

The reason they prevent hacking, modding, and everything else from PS3's and Xboxes is because they are all inked together. You mess with ONE, you mess with them ALL. THAT'S why it's illegal and against Microsoft rules to tamper with an Xbox that's linked online. You may think you're just tampering with your own Xbox, but in reality you're tampering with thousands of them.

[Karasuman]

So, that big PS3 scam where the PS3 was down for like 2 months, bcuz people hacked it and got people's credit card info, was right in your eyes? 'Just another day on our PS3' those hackers probably said. Not antagonizing at all. I'm just saying I see faults in your concept of how an Xbox or a PS3 is purely your private property, and you have the right to do whatever you want with it, no questions asked. I get it, but it isn't really true. Technically, those guys did something console users do ever day: Hack. But, they were arrested. Why? Because they hacked, and, in the process, stole people's personal information. Yes, they hacked directly into the heart of where all PS3's are linked, or whatever, but from the way your analogy is coming across, that was okay.

 

The reason they prevent hacking, modding, and everything else from PS3's and Xboxes is because they are all inked together. You mess with ONE, you mess with them ALL. THAT'S why it's illegal and against Microsoft rules to tamper with an Xbox that's linked online. You may think you're just tampering with your own Xbox, but in reality you're tampering with thousands of them.

We're not talking about what you do with the software. There are all sorts of laws and copyrights and so forth in place so that people such as hackers can't misuse software, and if they do misuse it, they can be penalized for it. That's prevalent in software no matter the platform. There's a difference between software and hardware. I'm talking about hardware. You can be sued and possibly arrested for changing the hardware in your own PS3 or XBox, a tangible device you paid for.

 

Do you think HP is going to sue you if you put a better processor in one of their PCs that you bought?

Edited May 1, 2012 by Karasuman

[fms1]

@ BeastlyBeast Your comparing apples to oranges there, that's like robbing a bank, it's just plain illegal anywhere in the world, and not some technicality. Edited May 1, 2012 by fms1

[Stemin]

You're seeing fewer companies for all gaming, PC or not: EA is eating everyone.

 

Without going too far off topic, the same thing is going on in EVERY industry. I can't help but wonder what the point of monopoly laws were if they don't actually DO anything.

 

More games are getting made than five years ago, but fewer, bigger companies are making them. Indie games are also taking off though, and the PC market has traditionally been much more stable than the console market. PC gaming isn't dead or dying, in fact, PC gamers outnmuber console gamers. Note that hardcore PC gamers are far more rare; casual gamers with laptops are a large part of it.

 

Well, ok yeah. If you want to include all PC games, then yes. It's no contest. But I don't really consider things like Yahoo games to be video games, nor do I really count the big MMO's, because there's really nothing that I'm aware of on consoles to compare. I was talking about more of an apples for apples comparison. I mean you can walk into any mall and note that there's no software stores like there once were, and you can walk into Best Buy and see the shrinkage in the software section compared to the growth of the console section.

 

WASD itself is meh- it's on par with using an analog to walk around. However, mice are so much better for aiming it's unreal. I first learned to game with a PS2 controller, then went to PS3, and I was very good at it. I still am. However, since going to WASD and mice last year, I have to say it's a vast improvement. Using buttons for movement isn't great in itself, as I said, it's about the same as an analog stick, but PC controls in general, with mice, hotkeys, and peripherals, are much better than a simple Dualshock 3.

 

You know what I think is better? Whatever works for you. Nothing gets me hot quicker than someone telling me the way I should and shouldn't be doing something. Everyone has their own preferences and I don't see where there's anything wrong with that. If I ask for help with setting up a joystick I don't feel I should have to listen to a bunch of ignorant rhetoric about how I'm doing it wrong and keyboard/mouse is better. I've never been comfortable scrolling around at things with my mouse to operate a camera so for me a mouse isn't the best, it's useless. In that same token I would never tell a keyboard/mouse player that his method is stupid. It's the whole elitist thing that annoys me to no end.

[Stemin]

There's a reason Microsoft doesn't want PC and Xbox gamers playing against each other. I'll just leave this sitting here.

 

I'm not really sure what the point of that was? Not everyone plays games with the intention of turning it into a competition. I play games for enjoyment. I'm much more inclined to play a co-op game than some kind of deathmatch multiplayer game. The last time I tried playing online was warcraft 3. I was killed in 15 seconds by some 13 year old with hotkeys. It didn't motivate me to get better. It told me I have better things to do with my time and better ways to enjoy gaming.

 

Something else that puts me off consoles is the control freak behavior of the companies that make them. Bethesda very clearly wanted to let console users to be able to use mods for Skyrim, but they couldn't get around the restrictions imposed by Microsoft and Sony. Microsoft and Sony have the bizarre idea that they can dictate how you use your own private property.

 

Sony promoted the Playstation as having support for alternate operating systems, such as Linux. The US Navy even created a supercomputer cluster using several PS3s running some flavor of Linux. Then they disabled the feature. Then they sued a guy for explaining how to make the feature work again. Microsoft has actually had people arrested for selling kits that would modify an Xbox to run Linux.

 

Screw that. When I buy something, it is my private property and I'll do whatever the hell I want with it. If whoever made it doesn't like what I do with it, they can go cry about it for all I care.

 

There's a reason they're like this and its real simple. Liability. Sony and Microsoft actually have to be held accountable for things that happen with xbox and ps products in terms of them doing what they're supposed to. It's a warranty nightmare when you start making it legal for consumers to jailbreak their systems etc.

 

PC's for the most part donb't suffer from this. Most people will go after the store they bought from, unless they bought a name brand like an HP, or a Dell, then they might call the manufacturer. More competent PC users are going to build or upgrade their own systems and they're more likely to replace a part at the time, or do some actual self-diagnostics. Most casual PC users seem to feel inclined to ask a friend to look at it before actually calling the mfr.

[BeastlyBeast]

We're not talking about what you do with the software. There are all sorts of laws and copyrights and so forth in place so that people such as hackers can't misuse software, and if they do misuse it, they can be penalized for it. That's prevalent in software no matter the platform. There's a difference between software and hardware. I'm talking about hardware. You can be sued and possibly arrested for changing the hardware in your own PS3 or XBox, a tangible device you paid for.

 

Do you think HP is going to sue you if you put a better processor in one of their PCs that you bought?

 

So, you mean like installing a cooling fan into the Xbox is illegal by Microsoft's standards? That's stupid. You should be able to put stuff into your Xbox. It's when the stuff you put in your Xbox is affecting everyone else's is when it's a problem

There's a reason they're like this and its real simple. Liability. Sony and Microsoft actually have to be held accountable for things that happen with xbox and ps products in terms of them doing what they're supposed to. It's a warranty nightmare when you start making it legal for consumers to jailbreak their systems etc.

 

PC's for the most part donb't suffer from this. Most people will go after the store they bought from, unless they bought a name brand like an HP, or a Dell, then they might call the manufacturer. More competent PC users are going to build or upgrade their own systems and they're more likely to replace a part at the time, or do some actual self-diagnostics. Most casual PC users seem to feel inclined to ask a friend to look at it before actually calling the mfr.

Exactly.

Edited May 1, 2012 by BeastlyBeast