Interviewees needed

[nightripperslayerslasher]

I've noticed when playing that it can be difficult to integrate your mod into the world. It's hard to make a mod discoverable and have impact in the game world but not be obtrusive or excessive in self promotion. I thought it would be interesting to talk with the community for tips on how to better integrate mods into the world so that players can download them and still know that they exist, instead of downloading them and stumbling across the feature once and forgetting about it.

 

To that extent, I'm writing an article about designing add-on content and I'll be pitching it to Bethesda. Anyone who would like to talk to me about their experience while developing plugins is welcome to share their advice over PM. Thanks for your time everyone!

 

-Ross

[jet4571]

I am not exactly sure as to what you are asking? if it is an immersion factor you are asking about then i am not the one to ask but i can say from my point of view a mod needs to be useable in the long term. most are do X and forget just like Bethesda's quests. some mods like the new Cider mill require the player to return and maintain it, those are the best mods but if overdone requiring daily interaction they become tedious. It is a fine line from fun to tedium that games never seem to get. you can have a really good fun quest that doesn't last and then you can have grind grind grind. Really you need it repeatable without any grinding and thats hard to do.

[nightripperslayerslasher]

Yes, this is similar to what I'm looking for. How do you build a mod that has staying power in the game but doesn't disappear inside the immensity of the world. I have three mods in particular: Midas and two quest add-ons. The only reason I know about MM was because I looked directly on the readme on "where to find this functionality" and the first quest I only found while exploring randomly in the far edge of the map.

 

It seems like there are better ways to make your mod visible in the game. The problem is that some can be too conspicuous and break the flow while others are so obscure the player never finds them and eventually gets rid of the mod.

[jet4571]

I am not a big fan of mods that are in an obscure location like what Tytanis was doing a few months back. thats just plain annoying to hide what you did when there are millions of locations to look in. Though on the other hand mods like Jaysus Swords has hidden items but they are complete items and not a part requiring you to find 2 more. then you have Easter Egg Hunt by KahjiitRaj http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=14190 and it is all hidden, plus being made into a new and more far reaching mod. this type is perfect for hiding when you find an egg here there and everywhere. you may not find one for a whole week and find 5 in one day. but then again who doesnt enjoy a good easter egg hunt?

[nightripperslayerslasher]

That's the point. It seems like a lot of developers put tons of time into these mods, and then hide them in an effort not to make them break the flow of the game world. That doesn't seem to work, because very often players will never, ever find them.

 

A mod like the Easter Egg hunt is a little different, because you know there's a bunch of something to find and you're counting on having to search for it. The key is trying to find a happy medium on the scale of [Totally Obscure--------------------------Totally Conspicuous]. What are some ideas for achieving that?

[David Brasher]

With dungeon mods, what you normally do is have very clear directions on how to find the dungeon entrance written in the readme file, which is included in the download.

[jet4571]

Have you ever played any game from the Myst series? Take those as an example for the obscure side of the spectrum. they are great fun if you enjoy puzzles and trying to remember a tiny detail on something you glanced at 3 hours ago ingame(could be days or weeks in real life and you need to remember hundreds of details). then you have games like Skyrim where everything has a quest marker. Now you would need to find a happy medium between the 2. obvious hints saying where to go or a marker pointing to the door only but leave the target NPC or chest as an unknown variable would work.

 

But thats really difficult to do when you need to adhere to the "users are stupid" rule and make a game thats great for everyone.

 

Here is a mod that uses hints only to move to the next objective:

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=11258

 

Look at the amount of time it has been up and how many have endorsed or commented. "users are stupid" rule applies here and is making what could be a good fun mod into "?????? Where??????" complete confusion mod. the Easter egg hunt is far easier to do because the locations of the eggs are specified.

[gasti89]

I'm a musician, so i'll make a comparison between modding and music.

 

In music (let's say a 4 element band, guitar bass drum and singer) every instrument has its field and its frequencies range to cover. Usually if you isolate a single instrument, the sound is really bad. The important thing it's the mix.

 

But, in the mix, sometimes you may not hear the bass (think about ACDC songs), the guitar (think about 70s disco music).

 

Now, let's say you delete the bass from an ACDC song. DAMN IT SUCKS! Even if you didn't notice there was a bass at all.

 

Imho that's the goal modders should search.

 

A mod that when installed is almost unrecognizable. But after playing for a while and uninstalling that mod, the first thing you say is "Damn! The game sucks without it!"

 

But if there is something really important, that the player must see or do in order to enjoy the mod (think about a guitar solo in music), the modder should put it right on player's face.

 

Like what Jet said, unfortunately, the community is getting stupid with time (not everyone!). Usually the average player wants everything and suddenly.

 

So, in order to get endorsments for your mod, you have to put markers (quests), make weapons and armors directly craftable without any effort, put enemies accessible almost suddenly (monster mods), avoid long dialogues in favor of hack n' slash (quests).

[jet4571]

Umm sorry Gasti89 but truth be told weapons and armor mods are harder to obtain in Skyrim than they were in Oblivion because they require crafting skills. In oblivion the most common way to add armor or a new weapon was to add it to the world and say where it was with a screenshot of the exact location(in a chest or directly placed on the ground). all a player had to do was fast travel to the closets location and go to it. In skyrim you need to level the crafting skill to produce it and have all the parts except for the uber lazy modder ones that require the player to console command and use player.additem..

 

Not so oddly enough players are demanding that the armors and weapons be in the world in an easy to pickup location. console to get should never happen but it is the players themselves demanding that mods become more generic than they already are.

 

I kind of think it has to do with this generation never having to deal with capital punishment and are the spoiled brats that annoy everyone at the grocery store by begging for the candy while poor mom cannot smack the lil sh1t upside the head. everything is now type of attitude.

 

But then again I am drunk and going to bed...

[gasti89]

Yeh, it's harder than in Oblivion, but still very easy.

 

Crafting leveling (if you don't use balance mods) is very easy, as long as getting materials (if they aren't very rare).

 

Imho it's not a challenge at all.

 

A challenge that could be provided by a quest, a dungeon or just a dialogue with a NPC (a dialogue where you have to choose the right answer).

 

I'm not meaning that i want "Demon's Souls goes to Skyrim". And I'm not complaining at all at the modders.

 

I'm just answering the question telling that Skyrim is already easy and "everything and suddenly" enough ;)

 

For this reason, in my quest mod there won't be quest markers, and if the player skips the dialogues he won't understand a s*** about what's going on and what to do!