Gauldur's Magic Amulet

[Stemin]

@ Stemin: I get the impression from your comments that everything to you is black and white, all or nothing -- that you don't understand nuances of behavior or have the slightest clue what "role-playing" is. In spite of the fact that our respective thought processes are alien to each other, though, I'll attempt to address your issues with my issues.

 

I'm here because I love Skyrim. I also hate Skyrim. I'm sure you can't understand that, and I'm sorry. I'm not going to take the time and space, here, to try to explain how some people can see the world in shades of grey.

 

I think you're very conflicted, or perhaps confused. You accuse me of being black and white, but then make the statement that you both love and hate Skyrim. Love and Hate are polar opposites. The furthest extreme. This is your black and white. There's no gray there.

 

And how is forcing the Dovahkiin to become a mage when you might be role-playing a character with no magical aptitude at all "realistic" in any way? It's not. As I've mentioned, before, this is merely a ploy on the part of the developers of this game to completely entangle all their quests so you can't possibly NOT get involved in virtually every primary quest in the game.

 

Bethesda advertised Skyrim as a role-playing game. Any such claim is a bare-faced lie. They took away any vestige of role-playing that still existed in Oblivion. Instead, the player is put into a single role -- basically an actor in a scripted play. It isn't as though I'm the only one pointing this out, either. It's one of the major complaints that players have with the core design philosophy of Skyrim. ES is becoming more and more of a linear Skinner Maze with every installment.

 

Skyrim IS a role playing game. Your definition of role playing is extremely narrow minded and your problems all stem from choice. Bethesda has forced you to play THEIR role of Dovahkiin and it's eating you up.

 

And I'll say again. It's very realistic to presume you have to join the mage's college in order to obtain what you want. It's a very simple concept. The Mage's have access to something you want. If you want it bad enough you have to play by their rules. It doesn't get much more "real" than that.

 

So, no -- my need to "dodge quests" isn't OCD. It comes from the fact that I'm a role-player. My characters are not "me" and every single one of them is different from every single other one of them. Again, since you don't seem to understand the difference between role-playing and toon-pushing, I strongly suggest that we agree to disagree and get on with our respective lives. After all, this entire thread is about JUST what I've been talking about, and you don't seem to understand that.

 

I understand exactly what you're talking about. It's not a difficult concept to swallow. What you don't seem to understand is these options were not given to you when you threw your money down. Instead of accepting that, you choose to rail against it.

 

I certainly don't see you complaining to StayFrosty05, who started the thread, for not liking the fact that his "non-Mage Dovahkin" has to join the College of Winterhold to complete a quest that shouldn't intersect with it in the first place. This problem is endemic to the game of Skyrim. I don't know any other "role-playing" game where the developers have gone to such extreme measures to railroad the player into doing all their quests, and that includes previous ES games.

 

This is the oldest concept in the book as far as role playing games go. Open world role playing games are a pretty new concept in general. All the old school ones were linear.

 

As far as why I addressed you and not StayFrosty05, it's very simple. You guys seem to share a lot of the same viewpoints, but I haven't noticed him railing against the game in thread after thread after thread:

 

http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/658908-dear-bethesda-this-is-what-is-what-meant-to-look-like/page__p__5203014__hl__redravyn__fromsearch__1#entry5203014

http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/668932-do-you-like-skyrims-combat/page__st__10__p__5287459__hl__redravyn__fromsearch__1#entry5287459

http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/665375-if-you-could-go-back-in-time-what-would-you-change-in-skyrim/page__p__5278085__hl__redravyn__fromsearch__1#entry5278085

http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/666919-whats-up-with-the-dragon-priests/page__st__10__p__5293037__hl__redravyn__fromsearch__1#entry5293037

http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/673121-why-the-game-feels-so-cheap/page__p__5321588__hl__redravyn__fromsearch__1#entry5321588

http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/675253-paarthurnax-the-greybeards-and-the-blades/page__p__5358042__hl__redravyn__fromsearch__1#entry5358042

 

 

I frankly don't care how much time and effort they put into the quests. They didn't structure many of them well at all, in the first place, so they certainly don't have enough respect on my part to put any effort into doing them all. If I were just playing "me" I'd do all them, anyway, because I like being a "completionist" (and that is much more OCD than "dodging quests", so you clearly don't understand what Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder is, either). I've even played through the game like that once, with a character who had no goals, ambitions, dreams, likes, dislikes, or anything else that could get in the way of doing every little quest. It was fun, but it's not as fun as playing a character who restricts what you can do. The real role-players who are reading this thread know what I'm talking about.

 

It's so ironic to me that you said everything was black and white to me, and make it sound like I'm close minded, but you come off as condescending in every single one of these threads, throwing around derogatory sounding terms like "toon-pusher" and claiming I'm not a "real role player".

 

You have a very real problem accepting the fact that you're trying to hold Bethesda up to YOUR standards and that is not what they set out to accomplish. It's fine that you want what you want. There's nothing wrong with what you want. But there's a very simple saying/motto/prayer, (whatever you prefer to call it) that says, "grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference."

 

You have a very real problem accepting things that you cannot change and accepting anything that disagrees with your own viewpoint. You've even gone so far as to point out that you don't care about Bethesda's time and effort because it's not up to your standards.

 

I know exactly what OCD is. It's an almost physical need to do something a certain way. Because NOT doing it that way causes a very real feeling of fear, anxiety, and sometimes even physical illness. But I wasn't using the medical term, but the slang application.

 

I also have a very clear understanding of role playing. It can take many forms, from playing the role Bethesda set for you or simply pretending it IS you in a medieval world, or you can go for more immersion such as in your examples. But when you're applying fictional terms to a concrete medium that isn't just going to change with your imagination, you're setting yourself up for failure.

 

I'm really sorry that you chose to take my message as a personal attack and I'm very sorry that you're so unhappy with this game. But I certainly don't see the benefits of constantly ragging on it in every thread.

 

I won't bother you anymore in future threads. I don't see myself changing your mind. I almost feel bad for you. Good luck. You do seem to have excellent knowledge of console commands, so hopefully you have some modding skills and maybe you CAN change the game to make it do what you want.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Stemin

[fraquar]

TBH, unless you are one of the rare Skyrim Nords who embraces magic - the proper role play for the Gauldur quest is to not start it in the first place. The quest would just end up being an ugly stain on your unfinished quest log.

[StayFrosty05]

 

 

 

And how is forcing the Dovahkiin to become a mage when you might be role-playing a character with no magical aptitude at all "realistic" in any way? It's not. As I've mentioned, before, this is merely a ploy on the part of the developers of this game to completely entangle all their quests so you can't possibly NOT get involved in virtually every primary quest in the game.

 

Bethesda advertised Skyrim as a role-playing game. Any such claim is a bare-faced lie. They took away any vestige of role-playing that still existed in Oblivion. Instead, the player is put into a single role -- basically an actor in a scripted play. It isn't as though I'm the only one pointing this out, either. It's one of the major complaints that players have with the core design philosophy of Skyrim. ES is becoming more and more of a linear Skinner Maze with every installment.

 

Skyrim IS a role playing game. Your definition of role playing is extremely narrow minded and your problems all stem from choice. Bethesda has forced you to play THEIR role of Dovahkiin and it's eating you up.

 

And I'll say again. It's very realistic to presume you have to join the mage's college in order to obtain what you want. It's a very simple concept. The Mage's have access to something you want. If you want it bad enough you have to play by their rules. It doesn't get much more "real" than that.

 

 

 

 

Though if you are not a Mage, it still comes off as ridiculous to join a Guild with which you have no affiliation and no aptitude for...it would have made a lot more sense if the Dovahkin could have simply stated he needed access to their librarian...the proof in who he is via the Shout demonstration really should have been enough proof of his identity to grant him Library access only without the need to join.

[StayFrosty05]

TBH, unless you are one of the rare Skyrim Nords who embraces magic - the proper role play for the Gauldur quest is to not start it in the first place. The quest would just end up being an ugly stain on your unfinished quest log.

 

I have the mod download which changes the properties of the Amulet....giving my Dovahkin protection against magic's in fact (frost, fire, shock) ...and so have just felt it makes sense that he would actually wish to acquire it.

[landy8]

I have the mod download which changes the properties of the Amulet....giving my Dovahkin protection against magic's in fact (frost, fire, shock) ...and so have just felt it makes sense that he would actually wish to acquire it.

 

I guess that's the case. The original version of this amulet was made for mages - so my melee and stealth characters didn't bother to collect it at all. As for the mage - she made better equipment herself using the 100 level Enchant skill and the double enchantment perk.

I for myself hate that Brynjolf guy who actually chases you and forces you to start the TG entrance quest. Tried to burn him to ashes several times... unfortunately, he's essential. :verymad:

 

I find much more annoying the fact that I HAD to join the guilds I didn't want to join to get the dragon words. For a fighter, for example, shouting is a good replacement for magic - you don't have to spend points to increase your Magicka. Why then I HAD to join the Thieves Guild (imagine an honorable warrior in heavy armor with a claymore on her back in that slimy Ragged Flagon!) to get the word I needed??!!!

[StayFrosty05]

I have the mod download which changes the properties of the Amulet....giving my Dovahkin protection against magic's in fact (frost, fire, shock) ...and so have just felt it makes sense that he would actually wish to acquire it.

 

I guess that's the case. The original version of this amulet was made for mages - so my melee and stealth characters didn't bother to collect it at all. As for the mage - she made better equipment herself using the 100 level Enchant skill and the double enchantment perk.

I for myself hate that Brynjolf guy who actually chases you and forces you to start the TG entrance quest. Tried to burn him to ashes several times... unfortunately, he's essential. :verymad:

 

I find much more annoying the fact that I HAD to join the guilds I didn't want to join to get the dragon words. For a fighter, for example, shouting is a good replacement for magic - you don't have to spend points to increase your Magicka. Why then I HAD to join the Thieves Guild (imagine an honorable warrior in heavy armor with a claymore on her back in that slimy Ragged Flagon!) to get the word I needed??!!!

 

I had always kind of assumed the vanilla Amulet to be in the developers minds something more so of an all rounder, considering it adds 30 points to each....but that's neither here nor there, 30 points on each isn't that greater prize really.

 

As for the Shouts, my personal feeling is I would have liked to have seen access to the Shouts, Dragon Priests, such prizes as the Amulet and the Main Quest not hindered by forced affiliations to obtain or complete them....In regards to Brynjolf, it irritates me that I can't tell him to "rack off" and mark off the TG as failed, as can be done by killing Astrid and marking off the DB as failed.....don't have to kill Brynjolf, just be able to tell him "NO!"....Would also be nice to be able to go head to head with Maven Black Briar and her cronies and the Silver Bloods.....And put Delphine in her place without having to resort to modding to achieve it....Their all my pet peeves, other than that I wouldn't be playing the game if I didn't love the rest of it so much... :happy:

[etang2]

Just on the console thing, are you guys aware that you can type help "item or NPC name" and a list will appear with their console codes and you are able to scroll through the list with pg up or pg dn? its really handy

[landy8]

Just on the console thing, are you guys aware that you can type help "item or NPC name" and a list will appear with their console codes and you are able to scroll through the list with pg up or pg dn? its really handy

 

I am aware. But I always tought that I have to play a game by controlling my character, not entering some codes in some consoles. I thought the "Heavy on the Magic" times are long gone (together with old good Spectrum, sadly).

[etang2]

Yeah, I hate the console too, but I saw earlier people were going to the USEP site, just thought id show them whatsup!