GENERAL HELP-ADVICE - MERGING & SMASHING - HELP PLEASE

[TygerxEyes]

SKYRIM SE With Merged Plugins-Mator Smash

 

It is going to be my first go at Merging (and possibly Smashing).

 

ââWow! It's late and my brain is a little fried from a long day. I have been looking at a few instructional videos for reducing plugins and conflict resolution and found Merged Plug-Ins & Mator Smash. I had finished watching a few YouTube Videos (e.g., Gamer Poet on Merged Plug-Ins) which was really helpful and provided I stay within reasonable merges I should be reasonably good with basic merges. In any case, I was in the midst of downloading all of the necessary support software according to GP (e.g., Merge Plugins, Champollion, BSAopt, Creation Kit, TES5Edit) - then I noticed these were all found under SKYRIM not SKYRIM SE (and I could not find SE Versions on NexusMods.Com).

 

MERGED PLUGINS & SSE

GP video does show that Merged PlugIns identifies SSE among other games so I gather it works though I did wonder whether the support programs are identical for both games SKYRIM and SKYRIM SE. For example, TES5Edit vs SSEEdit. I mention because I used SSEEdit to create a more functional WICO (which works perfectly). I know these the xEdit Programs do the same kinds of things, but are they the SAME as in either could be used. Merge support programs are the same regardless of SKYRIM or SKYRIM SE?

 

MATOR SMASH & SSE

 

Again, GP & Author Videos show Mator Smash identifying both games so I figure it's good with either game; however, I just wanted to ask whether I need do anything different for SKYRIM SE. Are there any...?

 

BASIC UNDRESTANDING

 

It is my understanding that Mator Smash is used to resolve conflicts and patch mods with conflicts. It is my understanding that it âno longerâ merges any plug-ins. Merging Plugins to reduce esps is handled by Merged Plugins, but I do have a question about using them together:

â(1) If I am building a Merged Patch with mods that may have different aspects (level lists) do I want to Smash the mods prior to running Merged Plug-Ins?

(2) Can you Smash Merged PlugIns?

 

(3) If you have advice or thoughts for running either program, I would appreciate any and all thoughts as I am going to be giving it a first run.

 

Thanks, in advance, for taking a moment,

 

~Tyger~

[Algabar]

â(1) If I am building a Merged Patch with mods that may have different aspects (level lists) do I want to Smash the mods prior to running Merged Plug-Ins?

(2) Can you Smash Merged PlugIns?

 

 

 

Yes and yes. Create a smashed patch for the mods you want to merge and include it into the merge. After you've finished the merging, create a smashed patch for your whole load order.

 

As for the confusion about no dedicated SE versions: Mator Smash, Merge Plugins and Xedit work for SE. There are several options for unpacking Skyrim SE BSA files, e.g. this one:

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/974

 

Not sure why you should need Champollion, but it should also work for SE. AFAIK, there's no fundamental difference between .pex files for "Oldrim" and SE.

 

The Creation Kit for Skyrim SE is only available from bethesda.net. You will have to register (free) in order to download the CK.

[TygerxEyes]

Old Hand,

 

First, I appreciate your taking a moment to answer my questions and it is helpful to know (a) Smash Subtest, (b) Merge PlugIns, and © Smash Whole Load Order.

 

With regard to Creation Kit​, I appreciate the note and have an account so I will obtain from bethesda.net ​

With regard to Champollion, I was following the instructions provided by Gamer Poet (whose advice is usually pretty spot on) though, in truth, I found only a handful of instructional videos on YouTube. It is my understanding that it is essential aspect of the Papyrus Section (Options > Integration). Since I am and running the process for the first time, I was just following best available video instructions I could find and it was noted that the four programs were listed as essential for integration. Creation Kit and Champollion were listed as necessary. As my deeper understanding of programming games is limited, I am really just following instructions for set-up.

With regard to BSAopt (vs Bethesda Archive Extractor [bSA and BA2]), BSAopt was identified in GP Video. I appreciate the link to BAE under Skyrim SE. When I open Merged Plug-Ins (Options > Integration), I do see that says BSAOpt Path and BSAOpt Options. ​Are you suggesting (or know from experience) that BAE will work in place of BSAOpt?

 

With regard to TES5Edit, it was also identified as not necessary to function but handy to look over files post-process to trace down issues. Given it is unrelated to Merge Plug-Ins (directly only in post-process checking), I am pretty sure that SSEEdit would work fine for checking the same as it is an xEdit. So, I guess that answers my question on using either xEdit.

 

​With that said, I admit that my deeper programming knowledge is limited and I am sorry to trouble you though there is just about nothing in video instruction beyond brief introduction videos which indicate the authors intent to work on a more through video in the future. It seems without a deeper understanding of the programming aspects I wonder what things are hyper-specific (must use this and nothing else) or what things are interchangeable.

 

Thank-you, again, for your time and help. I do really appreciate it. Again, any additional information or advice from yourself or others with experience, would be great.

 

~Tyger~

 

â(1) If I am building a Merged Patch with mods that may have different aspects (level lists) do I want to Smash the mods prior to running Merged Plug-Ins?

(2) Can you Smash Merged PlugIns?

Yes and yes. Create a smashed patch for the mods you want to merge and include it into the merge. After you've finished the merging, create a smashed patch for your whole load order.

 

As for the confusion about no dedicated SE versions: Mator Smash, Merge Plugins and Xedit work for SE. There are several options for unpacking Skyrim SE BSA files, e.g. this one:

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/974

 

Not sure why you should need Champollion, but it should also work for SE. AFAIK, there's no fundamental difference between .pex files for "Oldrim" and SE.

 

The Creation Kit for Skyrim SE is only available from bethesda.net. You will have to register (free) in order to download the CK.

[Algabar]

I think now I understand where your questions are coming from. GamerPoets tutorials are indeed very good and a valuable source of information.

 

Don't make things too complicated though. You are NOT required to have all applications set in the "integrations" tab. In SE, I never had Champollion or a BSA extractor program set in Merged Plugins. It works just fine anyway.

 

I've been modding Bethesda games for years, and I take a rather "practical" and "simplistic" approach:

 

First of all: Only merge plugins, if you really need to, i.e. if you're near the 255 files limit. If you aren't, don't bother with merging at all.

 

If you NEED to merge to free some space for plugins, take the easy and safe route:

1. Don't merge anything containing scripts -> no champollion needed. Merging heavily scripted mods will end up in disaster anyway more often than not.

2. Only merge mods of the same category. The standard categories, that are easily mergeable, are weapons, armor and clothing, generic followers and "small tweaks" (something like essential status for a certain NPC, more gold for merchants, adjustments to crafting recipes...).

3. Never put anything into a merge, that is needed (or might be needed) as a master file for other mods. E.g. Frameworks of all sort don't belong in a merge.

4. Try not to merge mods using BSAs. If you must merge them, unpack the BSAs with any program before merging. You CAN let "Merge plugins" do that for you - which will lead to the integration problem. But you don't have to. OFC, unpacking BSAs is generally not recommended. They are useful for performance reasons and to make mod management easier. So its probably best not to touch mods with BSAs.

[TygerxEyes]

Old Hand (Algabar),

I have been swamped with life and work, but I really appreciate your time and advice. Yes, that's what I was talking about and your thoughts and advice helped especially with the general concept that Merge Plug-Ins runs as a stand-alone bit of software though to work with certain aspects of merger - say scripts - it requires additional software working within it to accomplish such tasks. When I was listening to the few tutorials out there, I must have missed the silver on stand-alone nature of the software as the focus was on total merge install and use - aka any kind of mod. I wanted to drop you a quick note to say, despite being rushed this AM, that I saw your reply last night and thank-you. I did want to follow-up later.

 

~Tyger~