The Overlord of Overhauls - EnaiSiaion

[BinakAlgo]

In response to post #61784387. #61812257, #61814812, #61900507, #61918022 are all replies on the same post.

Jinxxed0 wrote: Ever since 2008, I've been saying that user created content is the future of gaming. Making long lasting content for games takes a long time. Developers spend hundreds of hours making something that only takes a few hours to play. That's crazy when you think about adding content to MMOs and online games.

However, when you look at something like Second Life, something that's 99.99% user created content, the world is so huge and ever expanding that no single person could ever see the entire thing in one life time, including the developers themselves. I shake my head when people say "people still play Second Life?" yep. the same amount as always 50,000 concurrent users online 24/7 for years. i think it peaked at 65k to 75k back in 2010, but it's almost always been about 40k-55k on average. Then you had something like City of Heroes. They introduced a mission making system which almost instantly injected the game with 25 times the content than the game ever had. They could have approved the top missions to be official, but never mothered. The system still kept the game fresh for a while though.

Then you look at Skyrim and other BGS games. I have nearly 3,000 hours and haven't even done more than 40% of the vanilla content. I think there's a way to add value to games with user created content, but the Creation Kit isn't one of them. All the creation kit did was add microtransactions to single player games. And now people pirate mods. Pirating mods. Think about that for a moment. There's a better way for sure, and I think the Nexus found it for the Donation Point system and supplementing it with Patreon. i would like to add though, there there should maybe be another donation pool for those who would rather do a one time donation for that month or whenever they have the cash to spare. I know people, like myself, who don't like monthly subscriptions and would rather do random one time "payments" for everything. Like, I'd like to see a button where I can donate to the Donation Pool once and be done with it until i can donate to it again without worrying about canceling something a month later just to make sure that first payment went through while stopping the second. Just food for thought if any admins read this.

EnaiSiaion wrote:

Ever since 2008, I've been saying that user created content is the future of gaming.

It is, but not the way you think. The Creation Club is brilliant: take a mod scene that is known for unlimited creativity and unpaid labour and tame it, channel it into a source of free or cheap content for your own game. Reward the best authors with a job and everyone else will compete to be the next. Rather than random stuff like Sexlab or entirely new games like Dota and battle royales that are only tangentially related to the parent game the developers are trying to sell, authors will put their unpaid heart and soul into making content Bethesda wants to see.

This may be a good thing, as it gives the best authors a revenue stream and encourages others to step it up in terms of quality and support. "It's free, eat s#*!" is no longer such an appealing retort to a bug report when Bethesda might be watching.

It came far too late for Skyrim and a bit too late for FO4, but I predict the TESVI mod scene will be centred on the Creation Club. Most content created will be along the lines of Creation Club content; new people will join, driven by the hope to one day work for Bethesda; and users will download mainly Creation Club content because it's vetted and -let's be honest- mods are a hassle to install and use.

I could be wrong. I may be right. We'll see.

Jinxxed0 wrote: I guess I'm more in favor of the wild and untamed mod scene. I'm also looking at this from the perspective a Second Life content creator where everything is made and everything is profitable including the stuff that's similar to Sexlab, only in Second Life. Millions dollars exchanges hands in Second Life everyday and the company that created and runs it, Linden Labs makes money off that everyday.

Obviously, Bethesda is different, but I still don't generally like the idea of having to pay $5 for a sword. I think something like the Creation Club with it's current type of mods could work if they lowered the prices permanently. As far as having higher and higher quality mods, i think that it wont be the case in practice because it's ultimately Bethesda deciding who they want and what they want. Which isn't a bad thing. But i think for mods, the free market s better at deciding. I think there's room for both scenarios at the end of the day. It's just that I personally think one of better than the other. The Creation Club needs a lot of tweaking I think. The lack of content and the kind of content is something not many expected.

I was actually looking forward to buying quest mods for $15 here, $20 there. But then they showed golden armored mudcrabs and other content I generally wouldn't pay for. i get why it's that way, everything needs to be compatible. So, with CC we have content makers getting paid, but not the best of the best who make bigger and better mods. This is brings me back to my other point of liking the untamed stuff better. You're free to break it and therefor have more stuff if you manage to keep it unbroken. Since there's room for both, I hope that at least something like CC or whatever its evolution is doesn't become the only option available at some point in the future. companies will likely only want to profit from certain mods while a lot of people will want those Sexlab-like mods and skimpy waifu followers that they never actually use as followers but have hundreds of them installed anyway. I lost my train of thought, so i'll stop here.

BinakAlgo wrote:

It is, but not the way you think. The Creation Club is brilliant: take a mod scene that is known for unlimited creativity and unpaid labour and tame it, channel it into a source of free or cheap content for your own game. Reward the best authors with a job and everyone else will compete to be the next. Rather than random stuff like Sexlab or entirely new games like Dota and battle royales that are only tangentially related to the parent game the developers are trying to sell, authors will put their unpaid heart and soul into making content Bethesda wants to see.

When you put it that way, it's kind of scary. For Bethesda seems like an "only win" situation, in that sense, it is truly brilliant. Their effort seems minimal yet they will keep the huge part of the profits while the creators are going to get a small income from it and all that under the vague promise of a "real" job at Bethesda... sounds like when at your new job they "promise" you that in 6 months they are going to increase your minimum wage but in truth they will get rid off you before that even has a chance to happen.

EnaiSiaion wrote: How is this a bad thing? It works like every contract based career: if you want to make art for Magic The Gathering, you should make free art in the same style and if you are good enough, you may land that contractor job at WotC. The contractor model works fine for a lot of talented artists, musicians, 3D modellers, etc.

The main difference is that the mod scene lives in a delusional bubble where authors are expected to make content for free forever and are not considered valuable enough to deserve a job or paycheck. Thus people desperately look for reasons why the CC is bad, even though as far as I know, pretty much all authors in the CC are very happy with the arrangement.

I think it is "bad" because, for me, that's labor exploitation. Of course, this is an intrinsic part of capitalism and the modern world and we must deal with it, but the defense against extreme forms of exploitation were formal employment contracts. I do think that is precisely the sector of people who work at arts and designs are of the most exploited sector of the workforce as the value of their work is highly subjective, so I'm not sure if the whole ordeal works fine when an artist has to work hard, receive nothing and see the company report an increase of income on their books, but I digress.

I accept that I'm speaking with a lot of ignorance here because I don't know the nature of the CC contracts with the creators. I've tried to get information about it but I'm informed that all participants must sign a non-disclosure contract about it, so I don't know if Bethesda is paying them in a "per project" basis, paying them a percentage of the earnings of their creations or if they are paid a flat rate for an expected amount of creations.

About the modding scene you are completely right, people not only never donate but sometimes we even demand and complain about with weird entitlement that sometimes it just hurts to read. Then you visit the Patreon pages of the "great" and famous modders like Elianora, Chesko or kryptopyr and see miserable amounts of money being received, while you see the amount that people receive for making videos about said masterpiece mods and, well, I just get kind of angry but that's how things are.

I do believe that modders should get paid or get some other kind of compensation if they want, I don't think that the CC will kill "free modding" because there are a few modders out there who insist into making "free content" because I guess they sustain themselves by other means or really believe in the freeware, I do think that the CC content will get better quality and more reasonable prices, but I'm really afraid that so many young talented and enthusiast people that try to get into this are going to get ripped off their work for a few coins.

[Deleted7867959User]

In response to post #61784387. #61812257, #61814812, #61900507, #61918022, #61932277, #62010117 are all replies on the same post.

Jinxxed0 wrote: Ever since 2008, I've been saying that user created content is the future of gaming. Making long lasting content for games takes a long time. Developers spend hundreds of hours making something that only takes a few hours to play. That's crazy when you think about adding content to MMOs and online games.

However, when you look at something like Second Life, something that's 99.99% user created content, the world is so huge and ever expanding that no single person could ever see the entire thing in one life time, including the developers themselves. I shake my head when people say "people still play Second Life?" yep. the same amount as always 50,000 concurrent users online 24/7 for years. i think it peaked at 65k to 75k back in 2010, but it's almost always been about 40k-55k on average. Then you had something like City of Heroes. They introduced a mission making system which almost instantly injected the game with 25 times the content than the game ever had. They could have approved the top missions to be official, but never mothered. The system still kept the game fresh for a while though.

Then you look at Skyrim and other BGS games. I have nearly 3,000 hours and haven't even done more than 40% of the vanilla content. I think there's a way to add value to games with user created content, but the Creation Kit isn't one of them. All the creation kit did was add microtransactions to single player games. And now people pirate mods. Pirating mods. Think about that for a moment. There's a better way for sure, and I think the Nexus found it for the Donation Point system and supplementing it with Patreon. i would like to add though, there there should maybe be another donation pool for those who would rather do a one time donation for that month or whenever they have the cash to spare. I know people, like myself, who don't like monthly subscriptions and would rather do random one time "payments" for everything. Like, I'd like to see a button where I can donate to the Donation Pool once and be done with it until i can donate to it again without worrying about canceling something a month later just to make sure that first payment went through while stopping the second. Just food for thought if any admins read this.

EnaiSiaion wrote:

Ever since 2008, I've been saying that user created content is the future of gaming.

It is, but not the way you think. The Creation Club is brilliant: take a mod scene that is known for unlimited creativity and unpaid labour and tame it, channel it into a source of free or cheap content for your own game. Reward the best authors with a job and everyone else will compete to be the next. Rather than random stuff like Sexlab or entirely new games like Dota and battle royales that are only tangentially related to the parent game the developers are trying to sell, authors will put their unpaid heart and soul into making content Bethesda wants to see.

This may be a good thing, as it gives the best authors a revenue stream and encourages others to step it up in terms of quality and support. "It's free, eat s#*!" is no longer such an appealing retort to a bug report when Bethesda might be watching.

It came far too late for Skyrim and a bit too late for FO4, but I predict the TESVI mod scene will be centred on the Creation Club. Most content created will be along the lines of Creation Club content; new people will join, driven by the hope to one day work for Bethesda; and users will download mainly Creation Club content because it's vetted and -let's be honest- mods are a hassle to install and use.

I could be wrong. I may be right. We'll see.

Jinxxed0 wrote: I guess I'm more in favor of the wild and untamed mod scene. I'm also looking at this from the perspective a Second Life content creator where everything is made and everything is profitable including the stuff that's similar to Sexlab, only in Second Life. Millions dollars exchanges hands in Second Life everyday and the company that created and runs it, Linden Labs makes money off that everyday.

Obviously, Bethesda is different, but I still don't generally like the idea of having to pay $5 for a sword. I think something like the Creation Club with it's current type of mods could work if they lowered the prices permanently. As far as having higher and higher quality mods, i think that it wont be the case in practice because it's ultimately Bethesda deciding who they want and what they want. Which isn't a bad thing. But i think for mods, the free market s better at deciding. I think there's room for both scenarios at the end of the day. It's just that I personally think one of better than the other. The Creation Club needs a lot of tweaking I think. The lack of content and the kind of content is something not many expected.

I was actually looking forward to buying quest mods for $15 here, $20 there. But then they showed golden armored mudcrabs and other content I generally wouldn't pay for. i get why it's that way, everything needs to be compatible. So, with CC we have content makers getting paid, but not the best of the best who make bigger and better mods. This is brings me back to my other point of liking the untamed stuff better. You're free to break it and therefor have more stuff if you manage to keep it unbroken. Since there's room for both, I hope that at least something like CC or whatever its evolution is doesn't become the only option available at some point in the future. companies will likely only want to profit from certain mods while a lot of people will want those Sexlab-like mods and skimpy waifu followers that they never actually use as followers but have hundreds of them installed anyway. I lost my train of thought, so i'll stop here.

BinakAlgo wrote:

It is, but not the way you think. The Creation Club is brilliant: take a mod scene that is known for unlimited creativity and unpaid labour and tame it, channel it into a source of free or cheap content for your own game. Reward the best authors with a job and everyone else will compete to be the next. Rather than random stuff like Sexlab or entirely new games like Dota and battle royales that are only tangentially related to the parent game the developers are trying to sell, authors will put their unpaid heart and soul into making content Bethesda wants to see.

When you put it that way, it's kind of scary. For Bethesda seems like an "only win" situation, in that sense, it is truly brilliant. Their effort seems minimal yet they will keep the huge part of the profits while the creators are going to get a small income from it and all that under the vague promise of a "real" job at Bethesda... sounds like when at your new job they "promise" you that in 6 months they are going to increase your minimum wage but in truth they will get rid off you before that even has a chance to happen.

EnaiSiaion wrote: How is this a bad thing? It works like every contract based career: if you want to make art for Magic The Gathering, you should make free art in the same style and if you are good enough, you may land that contractor job at WotC. The contractor model works fine for a lot of talented artists, musicians, 3D modellers, etc.

The main difference is that the mod scene lives in a delusional bubble where authors are expected to make content for free forever and are not considered valuable enough to deserve a job or paycheck. Thus people desperately look for reasons why the CC is bad, even though as far as I know, pretty much all authors in the CC are very happy with the arrangement.

BinakAlgo wrote: I think it is "bad" because, for me, that's labor exploitation. Of course, this is an intrinsic part of capitalism and the modern world and we must deal with it, but the defense against extreme forms of exploitation were formal employment contracts. I do think that is precisely the sector of people who work at arts and designs are of the most exploited sector of the workforce as the value of their work is highly subjective, so I'm not sure if the whole ordeal works fine when an artist has to work hard, receive nothing and see the company report an increase of income on their books, but I digress.

I accept that I'm speaking with a lot of ignorance here because I don't know the nature of the CC contracts with the creators. I've tried to get information about it but I'm informed that all participants must sign a non-disclosure contract about it, so I don't know if Bethesda is paying them in a "per project" basis, paying them a percentage of the earnings of their creations or if they are paid a flat rate for an expected amount of creations.

About the modding scene you are completely right, people not only never donate but sometimes we even demand and complain about with weird entitlement that sometimes it just hurts to read. Then you visit the Patreon pages of the "great" and famous modders like Elianora, Chesko or kryptopyr and see miserable amounts of money being received, while you see the amount that people receive for making videos about said masterpiece mods and, well, I just get kind of angry but that's how things are.

I do believe that modders should get paid or get some other kind of compensation if they want, I don't think that the CC will kill "free modding" because there are a few modders out there who insist into making "free content" because I guess they sustain themselves by other means or really believe in the freeware, I do think that the CC content will get better quality and more reasonable prices, but I'm really afraid that so many young talented and enthusiast people that try to get into this are going to get ripped off their work for a few coins.

BinakAlgo wrote: The problem with Elianora's house (IMO as I haven't asked her) it is about copyright and legal issues. She can't use her models and textures because those are "hers" so Bethesda can't make a profit from them or they'll have to pay her (and anyone) extra for their product, even if it was made with Bethesda tools like the Creation Kit.

Also, compatibility is paramount and Bethesda (and basically all western big developers) are having problems with Sony's Play Station 4. For some reason (I can only guess that it is a good one), they don't like the games to be modified, so in the case of Skyrim SE they put huge limits of how much the players can modify it. For comparision, the X-Box allows users to install up to 5 GB of content and 150 plugin files (compared to whatever you want and 256 plugins for your PC), but for Sony's PS4 the situation is terrible, the mods players use can't have any external assets (Elianora's house example above) and only 100 plugins.

Now, about paying modders, yeah, we got used to not pay a dime for anything from the internet and we know how that went. Newspapers started to write for their add contracts, not for their readers, so we ended up with fake news, eye-catching headlines full of nothing and "you won't believe what X politicians said!" but I digress once again.

As Enai points out in the interview, modding back then was basically a cheat code or a small tweaking for a game. Something that one single person could do in mere hours. The more complex ones in the mid 90's maybe took a weekend. But nowadays we have projects like Beyond Skyrim or Dragonborn Odyssey that take months or years, need all kind of experts in level design, meshes, textures, storylines, gameplay... they are basically making a brand new game from the Skyrim platform, for free or just to catch the eye of big developers and get hired!

So, for that kind of work, sooner or later normal people are going to need to get paid for it. I would love it to be via direct donations to the authors, but that's not happening, so I guess that it's going to be CC with the prices adjusted.

The main reason of this topic is not if the Creation Club can give mod authors jobs for the content creators, but more about, the Creation Club is an abomination for the users. You said: "The main difference is that the mod scene lives in a delusional bubble where authors are expected to make content for free forever and are not considered valuable enough to deserve a job or paycheck."

It's not a delusional bubble, it's what we've been use to. I mean honestly, tell me, would you pay 5$ for a dark greatsword/battleaxe that change skin as much as you like ? Personnaly, no, why ? Because why would I buy 5 dollar for a single weapon when a new DLC that cost 20$ give me: A complete story-line, new quest, new weapons and new armors, new spells, new bosses, new added lore, new object variation (exemple: the paragons), new lands, new textures, new ennemys, new mechanics, new follower etc. The day, they would put reasonable price on the paid mod, maybe we can talk about it again

Lastly when you said: "pretty much all authors in the CC are very happy with the arrangement."
I could have bet on it, just take Elianora for exemple, no mean but, the house she show us on the Creation Cub wasn't the best right? Maybe, MAYBE, because it wasn't her best mod, she didn't work as hard as her other mod and she get paid for it. Not surprinsing she can be happy about it. On a side note: I could search 10 minutes on the Nexus and find something that suit my taste better, and it's free. Edited August 14, 2018 by Klogus2222

[Syclone903]

Enai's mods feel like some sort of single player Overwatch-Dishonored hybrid.

 

Which is f*#@ing brilliant by the way.

Edited July 18, 2018 by Syclone903

[Deiscent]

Your mods are a standard part of my game. Thank you for the time and effort.

[djuilesyboy]

wow i played midiean xl back in the day it was my first experience with modding, all these years later its funny, 1 of the best modders around, some day i will make my mod, some day, until then toast to the town to all the mod authors who have improved immersed beatified and corrupted my games, thank you

[expressfreely]

As a 'modder' with a few pithy mods of my own here and there, I see Enai's work as genuinely talented. I hope Enai feels nothing but pride about all of these incredibly creative, expertly crafted mods, because whoa, is it ever deserved. Edited July 20, 2018 by expressfreely

[BinakAlgo]

In response to post #61784387. #61812257, #61814812, #61900507, #61918022, #61932277, #61933412 are all replies on the same post.

Jinxxed0 wrote: Ever since 2008, I've been saying that user created content is the future of gaming. Making long lasting content for games takes a long time. Developers spend hundreds of hours making something that only takes a few hours to play. That's crazy when you think about adding content to MMOs and online games.

However, when you look at something like Second Life, something that's 99.99% user created content, the world is so huge and ever expanding that no single person could ever see the entire thing in one life time, including the developers themselves. I shake my head when people say "people still play Second Life?" yep. the same amount as always 50,000 concurrent users online 24/7 for years. i think it peaked at 65k to 75k back in 2010, but it's almost always been about 40k-55k on average. Then you had something like City of Heroes. They introduced a mission making system which almost instantly injected the game with 25 times the content than the game ever had. They could have approved the top missions to be official, but never mothered. The system still kept the game fresh for a while though.

Then you look at Skyrim and other BGS games. I have nearly 3,000 hours and haven't even done more than 40% of the vanilla content. I think there's a way to add value to games with user created content, but the Creation Kit isn't one of them. All the creation kit did was add microtransactions to single player games. And now people pirate mods. Pirating mods. Think about that for a moment. There's a better way for sure, and I think the Nexus found it for the Donation Point system and supplementing it with Patreon. i would like to add though, there there should maybe be another donation pool for those who would rather do a one time donation for that month or whenever they have the cash to spare. I know people, like myself, who don't like monthly subscriptions and would rather do random one time "payments" for everything. Like, I'd like to see a button where I can donate to the Donation Pool once and be done with it until i can donate to it again without worrying about canceling something a month later just to make sure that first payment went through while stopping the second. Just food for thought if any admins read this.

EnaiSiaion wrote:

Ever since 2008, I've been saying that user created content is the future of gaming.

It is, but not the way you think. The Creation Club is brilliant: take a mod scene that is known for unlimited creativity and unpaid labour and tame it, channel it into a source of free or cheap content for your own game. Reward the best authors with a job and everyone else will compete to be the next. Rather than random stuff like Sexlab or entirely new games like Dota and battle royales that are only tangentially related to the parent game the developers are trying to sell, authors will put their unpaid heart and soul into making content Bethesda wants to see.

This may be a good thing, as it gives the best authors a revenue stream and encourages others to step it up in terms of quality and support. "It's free, eat s#*!" is no longer such an appealing retort to a bug report when Bethesda might be watching.

It came far too late for Skyrim and a bit too late for FO4, but I predict the TESVI mod scene will be centred on the Creation Club. Most content created will be along the lines of Creation Club content; new people will join, driven by the hope to one day work for Bethesda; and users will download mainly Creation Club content because it's vetted and -let's be honest- mods are a hassle to install and use.

I could be wrong. I may be right. We'll see.

Jinxxed0 wrote: I guess I'm more in favor of the wild and untamed mod scene. I'm also looking at this from the perspective a Second Life content creator where everything is made and everything is profitable including the stuff that's similar to Sexlab, only in Second Life. Millions dollars exchanges hands in Second Life everyday and the company that created and runs it, Linden Labs makes money off that everyday.

Obviously, Bethesda is different, but I still don't generally like the idea of having to pay $5 for a sword. I think something like the Creation Club with it's current type of mods could work if they lowered the prices permanently. As far as having higher and higher quality mods, i think that it wont be the case in practice because it's ultimately Bethesda deciding who they want and what they want. Which isn't a bad thing. But i think for mods, the free market s better at deciding. I think there's room for both scenarios at the end of the day. It's just that I personally think one of better than the other. The Creation Club needs a lot of tweaking I think. The lack of content and the kind of content is something not many expected.

I was actually looking forward to buying quest mods for $15 here, $20 there. But then they showed golden armored mudcrabs and other content I generally wouldn't pay for. i get why it's that way, everything needs to be compatible. So, with CC we have content makers getting paid, but not the best of the best who make bigger and better mods. This is brings me back to my other point of liking the untamed stuff better. You're free to break it and therefor have more stuff if you manage to keep it unbroken. Since there's room for both, I hope that at least something like CC or whatever its evolution is doesn't become the only option available at some point in the future. companies will likely only want to profit from certain mods while a lot of people will want those Sexlab-like mods and skimpy waifu followers that they never actually use as followers but have hundreds of them installed anyway. I lost my train of thought, so i'll stop here.

BinakAlgo wrote:

It is, but not the way you think. The Creation Club is brilliant: take a mod scene that is known for unlimited creativity and unpaid labour and tame it, channel it into a source of free or cheap content for your own game. Reward the best authors with a job and everyone else will compete to be the next. Rather than random stuff like Sexlab or entirely new games like Dota and battle royales that are only tangentially related to the parent game the developers are trying to sell, authors will put their unpaid heart and soul into making content Bethesda wants to see.

When you put it that way, it's kind of scary. For Bethesda seems like an "only win" situation, in that sense, it is truly brilliant. Their effort seems minimal yet they will keep the huge part of the profits while the creators are going to get a small income from it and all that under the vague promise of a "real" job at Bethesda... sounds like when at your new job they "promise" you that in 6 months they are going to increase your minimum wage but in truth they will get rid off you before that even has a chance to happen.

EnaiSiaion wrote: How is this a bad thing? It works like every contract based career: if you want to make art for Magic The Gathering, you should make free art in the same style and if you are good enough, you may land that contractor job at WotC. The contractor model works fine for a lot of talented artists, musicians, 3D modellers, etc.

The main difference is that the mod scene lives in a delusional bubble where authors are expected to make content for free forever and are not considered valuable enough to deserve a job or paycheck. Thus people desperately look for reasons why the CC is bad, even though as far as I know, pretty much all authors in the CC are very happy with the arrangement.

BinakAlgo wrote: I think it is "bad" because, for me, that's labor exploitation. Of course, this is an intrinsic part of capitalism and the modern world and we must deal with it, but the defense against extreme forms of exploitation were formal employment contracts. I do think that is precisely the sector of people who work at arts and designs are of the most exploited sector of the workforce as the value of their work is highly subjective, so I'm not sure if the whole ordeal works fine when an artist has to work hard, receive nothing and see the company report an increase of income on their books, but I digress.

I accept that I'm speaking with a lot of ignorance here because I don't know the nature of the CC contracts with the creators. I've tried to get information about it but I'm informed that all participants must sign a non-disclosure contract about it, so I don't know if Bethesda is paying them in a "per project" basis, paying them a percentage of the earnings of their creations or if they are paid a flat rate for an expected amount of creations.

About the modding scene you are completely right, people not only never donate but sometimes we even demand and complain about with weird entitlement that sometimes it just hurts to read. Then you visit the Patreon pages of the "great" and famous modders like Elianora, Chesko or kryptopyr and see miserable amounts of money being received, while you see the amount that people receive for making videos about said masterpiece mods and, well, I just get kind of angry but that's how things are.

I do believe that modders should get paid or get some other kind of compensation if they want, I don't think that the CC will kill "free modding" because there are a few modders out there who insist into making "free content" because I guess they sustain themselves by other means or really believe in the freeware, I do think that the CC content will get better quality and more reasonable prices, but I'm really afraid that so many young talented and enthusiast people that try to get into this are going to get ripped off their work for a few coins.

Klogus2222 wrote: The main reason of this topic is not if the Creation Club can give mod authors jobs for the content creators, but more about, the Creation Club is an abomination for the users. You said: "The main difference is that the mod scene lives in a delusional bubble where authors are expected to make content for free forever and are not considered valuable enough to deserve a job or paycheck.

It's not a delusional bubble, it's what we've been use to, in a good way. I mean honestly, tell me, would you pay 5$ for a dark greatsword/battleaxe that change skin as much as you like ? Personnaly, no, why ? Because why would I buy 5 dollar for a single weapon when a new DLC that cost 20$ give me: A complete story-line, new quest, new weapons and new armors, new spells, new bosses, new added lore, new object variation (exemple: the paragons), new lands, new textures, new ennemys, new mechanics, new follower etc. The day, they would put reasonable price on the paid mod, maybe we can talk about it again

Lastly when you said: "pretty much all authors in the CC are very happy with the arrangement."
I could have bet on it, just take Elianora for exemple, no mean but, the house she show us on the Creation Cub wasn't the best right? Maybe, MAYBE, because it wasn't her best mod, she didn't work as hard as her other mod and she get paid for it. Not surprinsing she can be happy about it. On a side note: I could search 10 minutes on the Nexus and find something that suit my taste better, and it's free.

The problem with Elianora's house (IMO as I haven't asked her) it is about copyright and legal issues. She can't use her models and textures because those are "hers" so Bethesda can't make a profit from them or they'll have to pay her (and anyone) extra for their product, even if it was made with Bethesda tools like the Creation Kit.

Also, compatibility is paramount and Bethesda (and basically all western big developers) are having problems with Sony's Play Station 4. For some reason (I can only guess that it is a good one), they don't like the games to be modified, so in the case of Skyrim SE they put huge limits of how much the players can modify it. For comparision, the X-Box allows users to install up to 5 GB of content and 150 plugin files (compared to whatever you want and 256 plugins for your PC), but for Sony's PS4 the situation is terrible, the mods players use can't have any external assets (Elianora's house example above) and only 100 plugins.

Now, about paying modders, yeah, we got used to not pay a dime for anything from the internet and we know how that went. Newspapers started to write for their add contracts, not for their readers, so we ended up with fake news, eye-catching headlines full of nothing and "you won't believe what X politicians said!" but I digress once again.

As Enai points out in the interview, modding back then was basically a cheat code or a small tweaking for a game. Something that one single person could do in mere hours. The more complex ones in the mid 90's maybe took a weekend. But nowadays we have projects like Beyond Skyrim or Dragonborn Odyssey that take months or years, need all kind of experts in level design, meshes, textures, storylines, gameplay... they are basically making a brand new game from the Skyrim platform, for free or just to catch the eye of big developers and get hired!

So, for that kind of work, sooner or later normal people are going to need to get paid for it. I would love it to be via direct donations to the authors, but that's not happening, so I guess that it's going to be CC with the prices adjusted. Edited July 20, 2018 by BinakAlgo

[hardinsskyrim]

EnaiSiaion, I have so much respect for you. Content you have put out, work and time you have put in. You are the best modder out there in your field! Love you <3

[LatinGames]

Some time ago Sinitar, made a Video with some of the best Mods of Skyrim of all times, I complemented that he left out several and the users should do some kind of tribute to the Authors of those great Mods, and this is my proposal:

 

Create a New Land (a kind of Sovngarde) where the Best Authors voted by the Skyrim Community have their own sanctuary with maybe their statue and a dungeon that demonstrates their Mod style, something like a Hall of Fame. This would be a very deserved tribute to these heroes who have brought so much fun to the skyrim community.

 

I'll be waiting for some answer :)

Edited July 29, 2018 by LatinGames

[Myanmor]

First off, I want to thank you for making Skyrim feel fresh and re-playable for the 300 hours I've put into it. No matter what play through I do, it always includes your mods. On another plus side, they never, ever, had serious bug issues or crashes. So in terms of the stability of your mods, its pretty incredible that the whole lot of them are as good as they are.

 

I do want to mention some of my feelings on the Creation Club. It is a good idea. But right now, for both Skyrim and Fallout, I don't see much reason to buying the mods offered on it. Why? Because I can find a better, or at least equivalent, version on the mod page or Nexus. That there is the one problem with Creation Club. I'd be mooooore then happy to pay for a mod on the Creation Club, IF it offers something unique and impactful to the game, besides just re-skins or a few measly spells/guns. Granted, there is the survival mod in the Creation Club for Skyrim, but as I mentioned before, its too alike to Frostfall, and given the choice, users will gravitate to the free one over the paid one.

 

What Bethesda needs to do, to really get their Creation Club going, is, as I've said, add more impactful mods. Say your Apocalypse spell package, or even Ordinator, was offered on the Creation Club, and nowhere else? That would be something I'd pay money for. (personally I'd pay ten-fifteen dollars for Ordinator. ^^)

 

Further, and hopefully Bethesda will fix it in time, is that the Creation Club is severely limited in the number of mods it has in stock. I count maybe 20-30 something mods, and most of them are just reskins. If it wants to compete with free mods, it will need to have more mods which are not offered by Nexus or anything similar, and, and I'll keep restating this until it gets old, more impactful mods.

 

Now if any of this can be done, I'm not sure. I hope so that it can be done, because Authors like you deserve both the recognition and the money for putting out such high quality content. If Bethesda is unwilling to commit to adding mods as game altering as yours, then I'm not sure I will ever be buying anything off of Creation Club.

 

Anyways, thanks for all the mods you have created for us players, and best of luck with your classes, life, and anything else you have going for you.