CrazyShadowDami Posted May 19, 2012 Author Share Posted May 19, 2012 skyrim, made in 2011: they are heavily bloking in thight places, they allways go on traps, they cant find their way around a corridor, somethimes they simply run around like mindless flies, they cant jump, they cant jump, they wont make a 1 inch fall to continue with you, somethimes they dont even follow you through cells.... F.E.A.R., made in 2005: heavily advanced pathfinding system, they CAN find a way around a corridor, the will jump over stuff, they will use advantage points, like high grounds or defending tight places that are hard to go through, they wont mindlessly charge at you, they will take advantage of cover, they communicate and make plans, THEY FLANK, they make guys with shotguns go close to you, guys with assault rifles at normal distance, guys with snipers at large distance, they split up into one group laying suppresing fire, and the other one going charging at you and flank you, they send "hevies" to charge at you and distract you, they will spot you if you are crouching right next to them, they can recognize from what direction are the gunshots coming from (the human ear can do the same thing, with a mistake of 3 deggres)... so, i guess this is 6 years of AI advancement? What makes you think that a single company's achievements marks the benchmark for the entire industry? F.E.A.R. was a first person shooter. While I've never played it, I presume it was linear like all FPS action games? TES is an open world type of game where the AI pathing you speak of is just a small portion of the game. That means they're clearly not going to spend as much time on it as the developers that wrote F.E.A.R. You guys have to stop demanding perfection on everything in this game if you expect them to continue to make these large open world games. You can either spend hundreds of hours perfecting one little thing, or you can make it work and add a bunch of other features to try out. That's how it works. Software is the same as any other industry. Their goal is to make money and they have deadlines. AI is a very small portion of this game and it functions. Maybe it's not the best out there, but it mostly works. Why would Bethesda spend tons of hours perfecting a feature that some of us don't even use? I personally can't stand followers. They rob you of experience points for your own character and potentially make the game easier. linear or not, open world or not, sandbox or not, FPS or not, RPG or not they should have put more thinking in correcting AI and bugs. but, in 6 years, i expected that it should be a lot easier to make better AI. you know why doesent the game like morrowind have graphics as good as witcher 2? becouse, now its much easier to make good graphics becouse of advanced game engine, rather like +/- 10 years morrowind was made in. and an 6 years older game has 10 (maybe 11) times better AI than the one made in 2000 and motherf****** 11. oblivion and morrowind had much bigger main world cell, which points me to the fact that it was not a thiniest of problem to make a better AI, bethesda was simply lazy and wanted money as fast as possible. GOTY of the year? my ass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrindedStone Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Do you have any idea how much a game engine costs. Each programer gets a minimum of $50,000 a year. Skilled would be over $100,000 and even more depending on rank. Programers think in logic an most of the time this results in using what is tried an true in usage an development over many years. It's 32 bit modded Gamebyro because they don't have a choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevkiev Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 For followers avoiding traps, this mod works like a charm. Actually, though I guess this isn't saying much, I find followers in skyrim much more willing to jump off a rock to follow the char than in FONV. (Though, yeah it doesn't happen all the time.) Awhile back I was doing a "retrieve an item from a cave" quest and went into that 1 cave with a hugely high cave ceiling with a massive waterfall, where you end up at the top of the waterfall and have to make your way down a narrow path and jump quite a ways down to get back out. Lydia wouldn't follow when I jumped down onto the exit path, but when I started to walk away I turned back and to see her go back to the highest point by the waterfall and jump like 75ft into the water, swam to some rocks and was behind me in a flash. I had a save right before then and I actually replayed the scene a few times because it looked so cool. The only follower I've had problems with just stopping for no apparent reason (always in a tight cave or dungeon) is Aela. Though that's fixed just by backtracking and going close to her, then she seems to smarten up. The other followers I've had: Jordis, Aela, Annekke C-J and Mjoll, I actually find to be very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perraine Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 All of that is irrelevant. There's still development hours to account for. The number one cost to any company is usually man hours. That's simple economics. You create a list of goals and you go down the list. If you have time to go back and polish something you do. Another turd polisher ... None of that is irrelevant, it is precisely and totally THE only relevant information required. Skyrim was quite obviously developed as a Console game first and then poorly ported to work on PC's It takes about 35secs. to set the "Auto Level" option in the NPC Editor (a program created using pre-existing resources and tools, not even a full and complete program such as the CK I remind you) on the NPC called Lydia and save it as an .esp, so please don't try an justify the slack nature of development with things like time management and economics. Bethesda simply went for the quick and easy buck and obviously couldn't care less about proper development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrindedStone Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 Well I can't think of a game that you don't have to overlook a few things in order to play. It could be that you like the game so much any flaw seems much larger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VileTouch Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 Let's not try and polish a turd here ... Another turd polisher ... not exactly disagreeing with you but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrindedStone Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 Personally I don't use Flowers either becouse of AI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyShadowDami Posted May 20, 2012 Author Share Posted May 20, 2012 totaly aggre, i want bethesda to take more time and concentrate on the damn AI. shure, ppl in medeival were much dumber, but im shure they know the word of suppresion, cover, ambush, flank, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrindedStone Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 Your Sig is 11 times larger than your post. http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac156/grindedstone/aaa%20New/lucky_charms.jpg Don't be mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 Stemin, there is big difference between having time to "polish" something and trying to "polish' something that hasn't been improved upon in a decade. You simply can't polish the latter - it is what it is, neglected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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