thieves guild, dark brotherhood

[MacSuibhne]

Just do the the entire Special Quests line - the ones where you talk to Delvin and Vex and travel to the major holds to unlock them.

 

Added: Once you do that, talk to Tonila and do the side quest to open up the Khajiit Caravans to fencing items too.

 

Leave the entire main line alone, i.e. don't go to Goldenglow Estate.

 

 

Thinking about this and your edit...what are special quests? I have several quests given to me by Brynoff (?) that require me to kill several people. And I posted this question because i walked into the General goods store in Riften and not remembering who Brynoff was found that I had a dialogue option to pass a message onto the owner of the store. In the end, I decided not to beat he poor fellow to a pulp.

 

And I haven't stolen Frost.

 

So, I'm not sure which quests are good.

 

My main interest is getting access to people who will buy all the loot I have accumulated (none of it stolen).

 

Tonila is in Whiterun at the open air market, right? Do the caravans have large reserves of cash?

[Perraine]

You can get a Speech Perk that allows you to 'invest' in most merchant's businesses, that will increase their individual cash reserves (though the female Orc smith in Markath seems to be bugged for me) However I haven't found one yet that has more/equal gold than the 10k approx. that the Riverwood Trader has after you give back the Golden Claw ... You can also get a Speech Perk that let's you sell anything to anyone ...

And stolen goods are easy if your on the PC, you can use the Barrel Ownership/Follower Looter trick for that ...

[RedRavyn]

No, Tonilia is a fence who never leaves the Ragged Flagon. There are no fences in Whiterun, although you'll get one at the Honingbrew Meadery if you complete a Thieves Guild quest for Maven Black-Briar.

 

The caravans have the same limited supply of gold that other merchants have -- until you do a quest for their leader, at which point each caravan will have an additional merchant who acts as a fence.

 

The quests you want to do are the ones you get from Dex and Delvin. Just remember the two "D" rule. If the name doesn't start with "D" then don't accept any quest from that person (well, except for Tonilia, who will put in good standing with the caravans). Dex and Delvin wil give you a bunch of radiant quests to do various sorts of jobs in various cities. Decline any that don't involve Whiterun, Solitude, Markarth, or Windhelm. Once you finish five such quests for one of those cities you'll get a special "reputation" job for that city from Delvin. Completing that job will add a new merchant/fence to the Thieves Guild headquarters and increase the amount of gold all your fences have (including the Khajiit caravans), up to a maximum of 4000 Septims once you've done all four of those jobs.

 

The best way to accomplish this is, as I've said, to "quit" any job that Dex or Delvin gives you that doesn't fit into your agenda (which is just to do five jobs in each of those those four cities so you can get the city influence job). You'll get a short "bad boy" lecture, but there's no other consequence for doing so.

 

Now, to address other issues that have been brought up. The main reason for doing the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood questlines, in my opinion, is to get the fences and to acquire the unique armor that you get from them. Once you've completed both of their main questlines, you'll have no less than four complete sets of armor, all light: Thieves Guild Armor, Nightingale Armor, Linwe's Armor, and Dark Brotherhood Armor. Mixing and matching the various items in these sets can pretty much fill most of your needs in armor if you're the type who would join those two guilds in the first place. Also note that you must join the Thieves Guild to get all three words in the Disarm Shout, since one of those words is in a quest-locked dungeon (Snow Veil Sanctum, "Speaking With Silence" quest), and the involved quest is part of the main Thieves Guild questline (the fifth one, if memory serves me).

 

@ Perraine: I've never seen Lucan with 10K gold. Are you certain you don't have a mod installed that increases his money? He's a favorite target for mods that try to give players an unfair advantage in the game since he's the first merchant most players are going to encounter. Investing in his shop is supposed to only add an additional 500 gold, although there's a bug that sometimes gives him 10,000, instead. This, however, doesn't always persist between play sessions, since simply ending the game and then restarting it frequently "fixes" this issue and makes him on-par with all the other merchants in the game.

[fraquar]

Once you finish the 2nd quest on the main line of the Thieves Guild (the one where you shake down the merchants) you talk to Tonilia and get the TG gear. After that all you need to do is just talk to Vex/Devlin and do 5 jobs in each of the 4 major holds until you open up each of the 4 other major holds to doing their specific Restoration Job (given only by Devlin).

 

You will end up with 2 fences, one in Windhelm and one in Markarth who each have 4,000 gold to trade with. Do the side quest with Tonilia and you open up each of the 3 leaders of the Khajiit Caravans to fence and have 4,000 gold to trade with.

 

To get the other fences you need to advance further down the TG main quest line, but with that many fences already opened up whats the point? If you play a merchant type character (i.e an enchanter) and don't wish to go the whole 9 yards with the TG questline you don't have to. Lets those putzes who like to conglomerate in the TG do that......

 

Granted, there are a couple items that might be worth it to continue down the TG main quest line, but if you just want to leverage the guild for financial reasons you don't have to go any further down the main line than shaking down the merchants.

[RedRavyn]

Actually, fraquar, the Khajiit fences are not the leaders of their respective caravans. They are as follows:

 

Ahkari's Caravan: Zaynabi

Ma'dran's Caravan: Ma'jhad

Ri'saad's Caravan: Atahbah

 

The fences you get for completing the city quests are as follows:

 

Niranye (market circle in Windhelm) -- After completing "Summerset Shadows"

Endon (in or near Markarth, since he might be at his farm outside the city) -- After completing "Silver Lining"

 

Fences you get for completing various stages of the main TG questline are as follows:

 

Tonilia (Ragged Flagon in Riften) -- your "default" fence after completing "Taking Care of Business"

Mallus Maccius (Honningbrew Meadery) -- after completing "Dampened Spirits"

Gulum-Ei (Winking Skeever in Solitude) -- after completing "Scoundrel's Folly"

Enthir (College of Winterhold) -- after completing "Hard Answers"

[landy8]

Actually, fraquar, the Khajiit fences are not the leaders of their respective caravans. They are as follows:

 

Ahkari's Caravan: Zaynabi

Ma'dran's Caravan: Ma'jhad

Ri'saad's Caravan: Atahbah

 

The fences you get for completing the city quests are as follows:

 

Niranye (market circle in Windhelm) -- After completing "Summerset Shadows"

Endon (in or near Markarth, since he might be at his farm outside the city) -- After completing "Silver Lining"

 

Fences you get for completing various stages of the main TG questline are as follows:

 

Tonilia (Ragged Flagon in Riften) -- your "default" fence after completing "Taking Care of Business"

Mallus Maccius (Honningbrew Meadery) -- after completing "Dampened Spirits"

Gulum-Ei (Winking Skeever in Solitude) -- after completing "Scoundrel's Folly"

Enthir (College of Winterhold) -- after completing "Hard Answers"

 

And don't forget four additional trades/fences in the Ragged Flagon.

 

As for the initial question...

 

Pros of TG, IMO, are:

1. A number of additional trades/fences, some of them with lots of gold.

2. "I'm with the Guild" option when some Sity Guard catches you.

3. Some uncraftable light armor sets. I find Nightingale set especially nice.

Cons:

1. Some quests seem... distasteful for noble characters.

 

Pros of DB:

1. Shadowmere. (It's a cool looking horse, in case someone doesn't know yet).

2. 2 uncraftable light armor sets (Shrowded and Penitus), and pretty Emperor's garment (if you don't want to take it from his fresh corpse - there's another one in his bedroom).

Cons:

Everything else.

 

It's entirely my own opinion, of course. No intentions to insult TG and DB fans.

[Perraine]

@ReddRavyn ... I've never installed any mods that alter Lucan or Riverwood Trader (or any other merchants for that matter) I simply give him back the claw and invest in his business, I DON"T wait for him to give me the quest though, I just automatically go straight to the Barrow, get both items from there (as well as tonnes of loot) and THEN go to Lucan and give it back (Oh what ... You mean this claw?) so the quest is "finished" before it was even made active ... And (since about patch 1.3 i think) he now has around 10k gold, sometimes (game loads) it's low 9k's and sometimes it's closer to 11k ... If it's a bug, It's one I'm REAL happy about :biggrin:

[fraquar]

If you want to go the minimalist route with the TG, just make every Side Quest through Delvin and make them be the Numbers Jobs. They require 0 thieving skills to complete - no pickpocket, no lockpick and even no sneaking. Some require a little patience, most you just run up to the book and scribble and you are done with it.

[trukittn]

Thinking of installing the alternate start mod to do the TG quest line on a new character as to me, its the first handful of quests you have to do for them that are the worst and makes them seem like a group of common thugs instead of thieves. However, a character (possibly a previous tenant of the Orphanage) who had more or less grown up among them would make it a little easier for me to feel some kinda loyalty to them and do their dirty work even if she questions the method. Especially when reform comes later. Of the two guilds, TG is much easier for me to justify joining, and has the better perks, not the least of which is Brynjolf's setsy voice saying something other than his stupid sales pitch for all eternity. :P

 

There's also a lofty achievement associated with the TG that will give you something to do for a long time. This is the main reason I'm considering a play through dedicated to them.

 

The Dark Brotherhood is a lot more difficult for me to join though. In oblivion it was easy to get that visit from them as a mostly-good character, and also a lot easier to justify one's continued presence there. So far, I've been dragged to that shack in 3 playthroughs and have killed Astrid every time. She has that whole "I-just-need-to-be-shot" vibe surrounding her from the second she opens her mouth. So what's a girl to do? I shot her. Every time.

 

I've debated using the same method mentioned for the TG to join them, but even getting past the shack experience, you're still left with what I understand are extremely questionable contracts to kill people for the most ridiculous reasons. Is there any way for a mostly good character to justify being in Skyrim's DB branch? I don't do villains. But I would love to kick the crap out of the Emperor. It's almost worth the trouble of joining them just for that chance... but I really wish there was a way around them.

 

Anyway, the only real con of not pursuing the quests after you've started them in my opinion is them lingering in your journal and the usual asinine comments from poorly informed guards.

Edited May 27, 2012 by trukittn

[kellerkat]

Thinking of installing the alternate start mod to do the TG quest line on a new character as to me, its the first handful of quests you have to do for them that are the worst and makes them seem like a group of common thugs instead of thieves. However, a character (possibly a previous tenant of the Orphanage) who had more or less grown up among them would make it a little easier for me to feel some kinda loyalty to them and do their dirty work even if she questions the method. Especially when reform comes later. Of the two guilds, TG is much easier for me to justify joining, and has the better perks, not the least of which is Brynjolf's setsy voice saying something other than his stupid sales pitch for all eternity. :P

 

There's also a lofty achievement associated with the TG that will give you something to do for a long time. This is the main reason I'm considering a play through dedicated to them.

 

The Dark Brotherhood is a lot more difficult for me to join though. In oblivion it was easy to get that visit from them as a mostly-good character, and also a lot easier to justify one's continued presence there. So far, I've been dragged to that shack in 3 playthroughs and have killed Astrid every time. She has that whole "I-just-need-to-be-shot" vibe surrounding her from the second she opens her mouth. So what's a girl to do? I shot her. Every time.

 

I've debated using the same method mentioned for the TG to join them, but even getting past the shack experience, you're still left with what I understand are extremely questionable contracts to kill people for the most ridiculous reasons. Is there any way for a mostly good character to justify being in Skyrim's DB branch? I don't do villains. But I would love to kick the crap out of the Emperor. It's almost worth the trouble of joining them just for that chance... but I really wish there was a way around them.

 

Anyway, the only real con of not pursuing the quests after you've started them in my opinion is them lingering in your journal and the usual asinine comments from poorly informed guards.

 

 

That's what I did, my TG non-dovakiin was shipwrecked and needed some quick cash (she was also on the run from her homeland and had to keep a low profile, that one went nowhere without a hood) and I had a bored vampire join the DB. Without the main quest demanding some sort of hero to answer the call it's easier to build characters who will follow the darker storylines.

 

Like most of the guilds the DB has questionable quests but once the prerequisites are out of the way you can pretty much ignore them.